Relentless Autosports - VRT: You be the judge
10-19-2007, 06:57 AM
#221
I as well have nothing to do with any of the shops here. I just don't like it when I see what looks like a hack job. Sharif has way more experience than I do 
so his opinions mean more than mine, but I just don't get how this thread came about and some of the assumtions and OPINIONS being thrown around as facts about another shop.
that is my gripe, not so much the situation since I have no first hand knowledge and ~gasp~ neither do 95% of the people on this thread. they got second and third hand information from who knows or from this thread.
there are a lot of questions about the build even I want to understand, but I am not ready to throw anyone under the bus unless the customer says so. so I guess I will have to wait until Sema when he dynos the engine to see. and I really, really hope he dynos it.
I would be willing to front part of the cost for the dyno as long as pics/vids are taken that someone can post (I won't be at Sema) so it can be resolved with finality.
so his opinions mean more than mine, but I just don't get how this thread came about and some of the assumtions and OPINIONS being thrown around as facts about another shop. that is my gripe, not so much the situation since I have no first hand knowledge and ~gasp~ neither do 95% of the people on this thread. they got second and third hand information from who knows or from this thread.
there are a lot of questions about the build even I want to understand, but I am not ready to throw anyone under the bus unless the customer says so. so I guess I will have to wait until Sema when he dynos the engine to see. and I really, really hope he dynos it.
I would be willing to front part of the cost for the dyno as long as pics/vids are taken that someone can post (I won't be at Sema) so it can be resolved with finality.
10-19-2007, 06:58 AM
#222
Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
yeah ...customer can do what ever with his car, its not a shop car
but ..did the eaglegreens car keep the FP sticker/banner? anybody can post pics plz on this thread... to see how bad a judgment eaglegreen made... if any case.... unless he signed an exclusivity agreement with fp, or if he removed completely the fp logo/sticker/decal of his car in place of a RA.... then its what ever the customer chooses to do
he did posted recently praising on sharifs customer service and all...so it sounded like everything was well discussed and sorted out in the end...
but ..did the eaglegreens car keep the FP sticker/banner? anybody can post pics plz on this thread... to see how bad a judgment eaglegreen made... if any case.... unless he signed an exclusivity agreement with fp, or if he removed completely the fp logo/sticker/decal of his car in place of a RA.... then its what ever the customer chooses to do
he did posted recently praising on sharifs customer service and all...so it sounded like everything was well discussed and sorted out in the end...
10-19-2007, 07:00 AM
#223
Originally Posted by QuadCam
Where is the owner of this car/engine?
The mods need to ask him if he is content with everything? If so, close and delete this thread.
The mods need to ask him if he is content with everything? If so, close and delete this thread.
Just becuase the customer is happy, doesnt mean we brush this under the carpet, as if nothing happened. Fallenromeo was originally very happy with VRT, as you will recall. In the end, he was very unhappy.
10-19-2007, 07:05 AM
#225
Originally Posted by Motormouth
ot
I will begin to remove all post from this point on until scott answers sharif's question. Its simple if you arent involved dont post or i will relock the thread until scott answers. WANNA test me OT the thread and see how fast it gets locked. This is everyone not just motormouth
10-19-2007, 07:47 AM
#226
Scott, PM me when you are ready to answer, and I will unlock the thread. Or PM a moderator and they can unlock it.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I would like to ask Scott@Ra a few direct questions. If everyone else would refrain from posting until he has a chance to respond, I would appreciate it. I am to make this is on-topic as possible.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
2) I added up the cost of building this exact same engine in our shop. The price for anyone walking through the door would be $3600 without cams, and assuming you have cams in this engine, then the cost would be $4700. Let's make it an even $5000 to cover any misc items. This is my estimate for parts AND all labor, to produce this crate engine. Pete informed me that he paid much more than this, and the price he paid was his sponsorship special price. How can you explain this?
I have been doing this long enough, to know when something smells fishy.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
2) I added up the cost of building this exact same engine in our shop. The price for anyone walking through the door would be $3600 without cams, and assuming you have cams in this engine, then the cost would be $4700. Let's make it an even $5000 to cover any misc items. This is my estimate for parts AND all labor, to produce this crate engine. Pete informed me that he paid much more than this, and the price he paid was his sponsorship special price. How can you explain this?
I have been doing this long enough, to know when something smells fishy.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 10-19-2007 at 08:04 AM.
10-19-2007, 11:44 AM
#227
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Scott, PM me when you are ready to answer, and I will unlock the thread. Or PM a moderator and they can unlock it.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I would like to ask Scott@Ra a few direct questions. If everyone else would refrain from posting until he has a chance to respond, I would appreciate it. I am to make this is on-topic as possible.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
2) I added up the cost of building this exact same engine in our shop. The price for anyone walking through the door would be $3600 without cams, and assuming you have cams in this engine, then the cost would be $4700. Let's make it an even $5000 to cover any misc items. This is my estimate for parts AND all labor, to produce this crate engine. Pete informed me that he paid much more than this, and the price he paid was his sponsorship special price. How can you explain this?
I have been doing this long enough, to know when something smells fishy.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
2) I added up the cost of building this exact same engine in our shop. The price for anyone walking through the door would be $3600 without cams, and assuming you have cams in this engine, then the cost would be $4700. Let's make it an even $5000 to cover any misc items. This is my estimate for parts AND all labor, to produce this crate engine. Pete informed me that he paid much more than this, and the price he paid was his sponsorship special price. How can you explain this?
I have been doing this long enough, to know when something smells fishy.
10-19-2007, 01:23 PM
#230
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I used to like these message boards, but lately the politics that are taking over are cause for concern to say the least. 
I feel that I have answered all and any question that was presented to me by the parties involved in this transaction (Pete@ BC and Noah@ Gt Spec) to their satisfaction. That is the only people who I see relivent. Whether I owe YOU any answers or not, Sharif, I will play your political game and then that is it for me with your "Bash others" self promotion thing that you have going here.
CLEARLY?? LOL. I have stated this before and so has Noah. That document you seem to have is NOT anything that I produced, or was it produced by anyone that works directly with me. This was a cusual build between RA, BC Racing and GT Spec and that is the way I saw it, right or wrong. I was never realy asked for a build sheet at the time and I viewed it as no big deal. In hindsight, that was a mistake on my part, but at the time I knew who was supposed to install and tune the motor, who purchased the motor, and who sold the motor and was always in close contact with them.
This, in my opinion has nothing to do with YOU AL ALL, but... Your guestimates and speculation on some of the parts and the way this motor was put together is just that. We build our motors with a track record that speaks volumes for themselves. I have been around the racing scene long enough (much longer than you) to know about trade secrets and builder specified methods, clearances, gaps, etc. So who am I to question the experience of Mark Brent who (IMO) is the best Nissan Master Tech, there is. Especially with his forced inducted Nissan reputation, and all the work he does with JWT. I leave the motor building skills to these guys, and untill I see a catastrophic melt down I have no reason to doubt what they do and how they do it.
Sharif if you feel that YOU have earned the respect and knowledge that Mark and JWT has in your 3 whole years of motor building experience, than my motor builder has in 20. then good for you. And if you can see fit to make that claim, than more power to you. How about you build me a motor for that $7000 budget and let me put it through the paces that I do with our motors. If it holds up, then props to you, but when it does not I will want a full refund. I am not realy wanting to resort to your tattics and start bashing you and your work and what I have seen of it, so I will leave it at that.
Bottom line, we have a well proven recipe for building our motors, and you have your recipe, so why don't you just leave well enough alone.
As for publicly posting a detailed motor sheet on here? No. Will this motor handle what we claim it will???? All Day LONG
Now if you can all please excuse me, this nonsence has wasted enough of my time. I have alot to do in a short time.
I do not have too much time to squabble right now, got alot to do before sEMA, and not to mention the Super Street Super Lap Battle, and the Redline Time Attack Finalls. (same motor reciepe as in ^^ this car)
I feel that I have answered all and any question that was presented to me by the parties involved in this transaction (Pete@ BC and Noah@ Gt Spec) to their satisfaction. That is the only people who I see relivent. Whether I owe YOU any answers or not, Sharif, I will play your political game and then that is it for me with your "Bash others" self promotion thing that you have going here.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I would like to ask Scott@Ra a few direct questions. If everyone else would refrain from posting until he has a chance to respond, I would appreciate it. I am to make this is on-topic as possible.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
1) The build sheet we saw was clearly something you produced. It had your branded parts on it, and the fictitious parts I spoke of earlier, like Nismo main studs and Nismo head studs. So if the engine we installed was not referencing this build sheet, where is this motor with the fictitious parts? Clerical errors do not magically turn into fake parts on a build sheet.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
2) I added up the cost of building this exact same engine in our shop. The price for anyone walking through the door would be $3600 without cams, and assuming you have cams in this engine, then the cost would be $4700. Let's make it an even $5000 to cover any misc items. This is my estimate for parts AND all labor, to produce this crate engine. Pete informed me that he paid much more than this, and the price he paid was his sponsorship special price. How can you explain this?
Sharif if you feel that YOU have earned the respect and knowledge that Mark and JWT has in your 3 whole years of motor building experience, than my motor builder has in 20. then good for you. And if you can see fit to make that claim, than more power to you. How about you build me a motor for that $7000 budget and let me put it through the paces that I do with our motors. If it holds up, then props to you, but when it does not I will want a full refund. I am not realy wanting to resort to your tattics and start bashing you and your work and what I have seen of it, so I will leave it at that.
Bottom line, we have a well proven recipe for building our motors, and you have your recipe, so why don't you just leave well enough alone.
As for publicly posting a detailed motor sheet on here? No. Will this motor handle what we claim it will???? All Day LONG
Now if you can all please excuse me, this nonsence has wasted enough of my time. I have alot to do in a short time.
I do not have too much time to squabble right now, got alot to do before sEMA, and not to mention the Super Street Super Lap Battle, and the Redline Time Attack Finalls. (same motor reciepe as in ^^ this car)
10-19-2007, 01:38 PM
#233
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Originally Posted by buzzardmountain
Can other members now comment on the subject?
The only things that are going to be said, are from the people who are never going to give up on bashing.
As far as Im concerned, all RELEVANT questions have been answered.
10-19-2007, 01:39 PM
#234
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This thread needs to be deleted. It has served no purpose. The parties involved have reached an agreement and are happy. Sharif posted this thread just to bash Scott and RA, because for some reason, he doesn't like him.
10-19-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadian
This thread needs to be deleted. It has served no purpose. The parties involved have reached an agreement and are happy. Sharif posted this thread just to bash Scott and RA, because for some reason, he doesn't like him.
10-19-2007, 01:43 PM
#237
this thread has indeed gotten beyond the normal shop vs shop competition, and resorted to some public bashing. From what i've seen, this thread started b/c of a spec sheet that didn't really coincide with the engine received. However, the parties involved produced explanations, and it appears that an understanding and resolution have been met.
In my opinion, all the other ethical/clerical/professional arguments are reserved for another thread.
In my opinion, all the other ethical/clerical/professional arguments are reserved for another thread.
10-19-2007, 01:43 PM
#238
Before it gets locked... Is anybody for real interested in doing that dyno after SEMA? I called Sharif earlier today to try and coordinate and plan this event with him, but he informed me that he doesn't want to be a part of it. If nobody cares enough to actually show up then I am not going to bother planning it.
I view it as a good opportunity to put any doubts about this motor to rest as well as an opportunity for people to look first hand at the time attack car instead of making claims about what it does and does not have without actually ever seeing it.
And to make it better for you all, the test will also be on a DynoJet because NASA is too busy re-configuring Jim's "Moon" Dyno. The time attack car will also be dynoed on the same dynojet for all to see.
Anybody? Julian? Sam? Phil? We already know Sharif is out.
I view it as a good opportunity to put any doubts about this motor to rest as well as an opportunity for people to look first hand at the time attack car instead of making claims about what it does and does not have without actually ever seeing it.
And to make it better for you all, the test will also be on a DynoJet because NASA is too busy re-configuring Jim's "Moon" Dyno
. The time attack car will also be dynoed on the same dynojet for all to see.Anybody? Julian? Sam? Phil? We already know Sharif is out.
10-19-2007, 01:43 PM
#239
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Originally Posted by Canadian
This thread needs to be deleted. It has served no purpose. The parties involved have reached an agreement and are happy. Sharif posted this thread just to bash Scott and RA, because for some reason, he doesn't like him.
I disagree with deleting it. even after all explanations, I still sense fishiness. it should remain so that future members that do their homework can judge for themselves the creditworthiness of all parties involved.
10-19-2007, 01:45 PM
#240
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Originally Posted by vandyG
This Scott guy was trying to rip someone off. It's good he posted it, I will never do business with this Scott clown or his associates ever. Also, his grammar is really atrocious, it gave me a headache trying to read that pile of crap response.
That said, EVERY ANSWER THAT IS RELEVANT HAS BEEN ANSWERED. This thread is POINTLESS.