Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

Can any Pro Certified Dealer tune the VPro? If I get it tuned somewhere and I need a retune later on, will a different Pro Dealer be able to "unlock" it?

Just curious. Thanks.

Audible Mayhem

iTrader: (48)

yes , ANY Pro dealer can tune it if the original tuner didnt lock it..


thanks

Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

Thanks Jeremy.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

If it's locked, they have to start from scratch, FYI. Most tuners these days, lock their calibrations...usually...right Jeremy?

Calibrations are intellectual property.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I think given the end user interest shown on the boards, it would be nice if tuning software supported both protection of a tuner's intellectual property and had provisions for end user tweaking. Something like a locked or encrypted "core tune", but perhaps with compensation tables that could be "add ons" that the end user could alter, within reason. Even without software support, a tuner could release an unlocked tune under a non-disclosure agreement I would think. Of course that's hard to enforce...

Just some thoughts...

captj3

iTrader: (1)

Why should it be locked if the owner payed for the tune? Then the tune should belong to the owner not the tuner this is what you payed for. I know others won't agree with me on this. Do tuners password protect there tunes with a utec? If they don't then they shouldn't do it with the V-pro. It wouldn't be fair to the end user if they have to change something major in there tune and are not able to go back to the original tuner imo.

usingthejohn

iTrader: (11)

^^^
the main difference is that the UTEC can be sold to anyone. HKS only authorizes certain shops to sell and tune their F-Con. Thats why the end-user can't access the settings, and as I see it, a major drawback of the Fcon, since air temp, track temp, or altitude can cause minor changes in the tune.
Plus, as i understand it, HKS also authorizes select few to manage their product, in order to eliminate any potential mis-tunes, which could then reduce the "I blew my motor b/c of the FCon" issue.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

i think a tuner has a right to lock the tune. tuning cals can be considered trade secrets. you paid for your car too, but that doesnt mean nissan is gonna hand you a copy of all the calibrations and compensations that they have decades of research into

phunk

iTrader: (21)

i understand your concern, but if done right it doesnt have to be a concern. a prodealer can install an ignition trim switch if you wanna play with your timing here and there, same with fuel. or you can tweak aroudn your fuel pressure if you want to play around. aside from that, when combined with the knock amp, the fcon has the most intelligent air/fuel feedback i have ever seen. ... if the AF mask is activated on all the cruising cells, the car is going to run flawless all the time. i have mad changes to my car once that required some retuning in the low load cells - all i did was activate the cruise control when the car was running slightly out of tune and within 10 seconds of holding that load site the feedback brought it straight into my target a/f. i repeated the process in any cells that were running off, and within a hour or so of playing around and driving the car, all my cruising load sites were perfectly tuned. i love the fcon.

usingthejohn

iTrader: (11)

pardon the newbie-ness, but what do you mean by "cells"? Is that the a/f ratio at a given RPM/speed? And, just to make sure i'm understanding you correctly: the F-Con is only available through authorized dealers, but your tuner/dealer can (at their discretion) install a trim switch, which would allow the owner/consumer to adjust fuel pressure, or timing at their own discretion?

westpak

iTrader: (19)

password protection is also a way the tuner can protect himself from someone messing with the maps and then blaming the original tune for the problem.

I am sure if asked the tuner will reveal the password but then it is known that his tune is no longer liable for any issues that may arise afterwards.

I would password protect anything tuned even emanage.

ZU L8R

iTrader: (84)

Interesting point

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

We password protect all of our tunes, with a few exceptions.

You bring up a very good question. When customer pays for a tune, they are paying for our time, our experience, and the dyno. This would apply to any shop...not just ours. Tuning strategies can take years to develop, and are very much the intellecutual property of the company that built the map. For instance, if you purchase a copy of Windows Vista, you purchase a license to use the software, but you don't get the keys to the source code, so you can make changes to the program. The tune is specific to that car, and that customer.

Of course, you are still free to have your car tuned somewhere else, but why should we make it easy for that other shop. They should start from scratch, just like we did. In fact, most tuners would probably agree, that 99% of the time, even if an existing map is present, it's easier/better to start from scratch anyways. Once the base maps are messed up, its nearly impossible to recover the tune. Starting over usually brings a better result. This is another reason we flat rate our tuning fees....no clock watching.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Another very good point.

Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

OK cool, I was worried that the VPro would not be tunable AT ALL once it was "locked." I'm glad to know this is not the case.

rcdash

iTrader: (18)

I had posed a similar scenario to Hal@IP. I was thinking that certain tables could be protected, but not locked, as an alternative. The tuner that produced the tune, would essentially have an electronic signature to verify that nothing was changed (or viewed for that matter) that was proprietary. If the user edits it, the signature would no longer match and the tuner would know someone had been mucking around. I can imagine it would not be too difficult to actually have user management in place so it tracked logins etc. We develop software with this functionality for medical record data management...

captj3

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Sharif@Forged]We password protect all of our tunes, with a few exceptions.


[QUOTE] Of course, you are still free to have your car tuned somewhere else, but why should we make it easy for that other shop.[QUOTE]

So this is the true reason that you lock it. Using windows as a example is going a little overboard. But your one sentence says it all. It's funny the utec can be password protected but nobody does it. There is tuning stratagey used with it as well. So what the difference?

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

[QUOTE=captj3][QUOTE=Sharif@Forged]We password protect all of our tunes, with a few exceptions.


[QUOTE] Of course, you are still free to have your car tuned somewhere else, but why should we make it easy for that other shop.I not sure I understood your question. We lock our UTEC tunes as well...again...with some exceptions.

sushtsi

I'm sure someone out there has created software to read the passwords of a vpro unit

leeboyNY

iTrader: (21)

Yup, someone sells it on the japanese auction.. This program bypasses password/lock and reads out all the mappings and stores them in an Excel file... They also have the F con v pro authentic USB key, cable and the CD for sale... So, if someone really wants to break the lock/password and tinker with the mapping on their own, it can be done with a risk of F@cking up the car...