GT Motorsports = GODLIKE
Originally Posted by ShamrockG
^^^ Good point. I hardley think that Sam walks on water
In fact I have seen and heard quite the oposite (which I will keep to myself), I do agree that GTM does pretty good work, but as for all the Sam and GTM are gods crap 
Lets be realistic.
Glad that DezilZ got his car back and it runs right.
In fact I have seen and heard quite the oposite (which I will keep to myself), I do agree that GTM does pretty good work, but as for all the Sam and GTM are gods crap Lets be realistic.Glad that DezilZ got his car back and it runs right.
This way you don't have to PM Zivman, and everyone can know what you know.
Anxiously waiting,
Sam
GT Motorsports
I do agree with some of the comments in here about "impossible to satisfy 100% of your customers" and "No one is perfect" Honestly my first experience with GTM I wasn't satisfied (I was actually so pissed that I almost sold my car) but I came back to GTM and gave them another try. This time it felt like Sam is willing to go above and beyond to fix/troubleshoot the problem I've had since I installed my TN kit. Make me proud Sam
Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Basically what you are saying is that when you changed from the Uni-chip to the FCon you did not feel any difference? I would have to disagree with you on this since the Uni-chip is a piggy back system that uses MAFS (Mass Air Flow Sensor) offset for fuel control and CAS (Crankshaft Angle Sensor) offset for timing control.
The FCon, as you know, has its own injector and coil drivers, which is why it will improve the driveability and boost transition feel, which makes the car much smoother. As a matter of fact, every time we have upgraded a car from a Uni-chip to a FCon we have always gotten the same feedback as Devil Z.
Sam
GT Motorsports
The FCon, as you know, has its own injector and coil drivers, which is why it will improve the driveability and boost transition feel, which makes the car much smoother. As a matter of fact, every time we have upgraded a car from a Uni-chip to a FCon we have always gotten the same feedback as Devil Z.
Sam
GT Motorsports
Originally Posted by kevin8086
you can lable me what you like but i'm no where near a noob. the power is not relavant in my experiance there. i have to run to work but i'll explain later.
I have seen you post several times after you brought the car to us, I stayed out of it because I think most of the guys on this forum have done a good job answering your questions, so I left it alone. Obviously we need to put some closure to your expierance with us. I feel we did an excellent job for you and there is nothing is I could have done to do any better under the circumastances and condition of the car that you had brought us.
The theme of the story is that sometimes you can help someone, and other times you won't be able to because they do not let themselves be helped.
Kevin brought his car to us to get re-tuned on 91 octane fuel. The car was tuned on 93 octane pervouisly from the previous owner he bought the car from. He stated that he has been mixing fuel to keep the car from detonating.
Issues with the car from the beginning:
Vehicle had the following codes:
-P1168 Closed Loop-B2
-P1065 ECU Backup Circuit
-P1051 A/F Sensor HTR B2
Fuel trime corrections via Nissan Consult II were fixed not switching due to the above codes.
My impression of his current tune before making any adjustments:
-Injector scalling was utilizing as if it had worked, that is a clear indication to me that the last person who tuned the car was not familiar with the Utec, I think everyone by now knows that the injector scalling feature on the Utec does not work, nor has it ever worked.
-Timing on the top end was at 20 degrees all the way to redline, suicidale or very aggressive to say the least for a stock engine.
-All knock parameters were untouched, the UTEC was set to pull 16 degrees of timing in the event on knock, that is what was saving this car from blowing the engine earlier. This would create a huge power loss in the event of knock due to the amount of timing be pulled by the UTEC. Kevin did confirm and state that sometimes the car would just stop pulling and feel as if its hitting a wall at redline, this is a clear indication of the Utec pulling timing even though he was mixing 91 and 100 octane fuels.
After evaluating the car these were my recommendations to Kevin:
-All fuel trim and closed loop codes should be addressed first. Those codes will have to be diagnosed and fixed so we can maximize the benefit of the tunning session. He declined the recommendation stating that he knew the reason why the CEL was on because there were some cut wires on the 02 sensor. He stated he would take the car to Nissan and they would fix it under warranty.
-Timing tables will need to be changed drastically to accomodate 91 octane gas. We also temporally installed a Knock Amp for optimum knock detection during the tuning session.
-We also recommened that he should upgrade his exhaust, and that it will definitely create a disadvantage and/or drawback.
The car was tuned at 8psi with the results posted below. Car was road-tuned afterward to ensure everything was perfect for Kevin. Documentation was made on the final invoice.
Obviously we did not meet your expections, maybe you deserve somebody better.
Good luck,
Sam
GT Motorsports
Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Kevin,
I have seen you post several times after you brought the car to us, I stayed out of it because I think most of the guys on this forum have done a good job answering your questions, so I left it alone. Obviously we need to put some closure to your expierance with us. I feel we did an excellent job for you and there is nothing is I could have done to do any better under the circumastances and condition of the car that you had brought us.
The theme of the story is that sometimes you can help someone, and other times you won't be able to because they do not let themselves be helped.
Kevin brought his car to us to get re-tuned on 91 octane fuel. The car was tuned on 93 octane pervouisly from the previous owner he bought the car from. He stated that he has been mixing fuel to keep the car from detonating.
Issues with the car from the beginning:
Vehicle had the following codes:
-P1168 Closed Loop-B2
-P1065 ECU Backup Circuit
-P1051 A/F Sensor HTR B2
Fuel trime corrections via Nissan Consult II were fixed not switching due to the above codes.
My impression of his current tune before making any adjustments:
-Injector scalling was utilizing as if it had worked, that is a clear indication to me that the last person who tuned the car was not familiar with the Utec, I think everyone by now knows that the injector scalling feature on the Utec does not work, nor has it ever worked.
-Timing on the top end was at 20 degrees all the way to redline, suicidale or very aggressive to say the least for a stock engine.
-All knock parameters were untouched, the UTEC was set to pull 16 degrees of timing in the event on knock, that is what was saving this car from blowing the engine earlier. This would create a huge power loss in the event of knock due to the amount of timing be pulled by the UTEC. Kevin did confirm and state that sometimes the car would just stop pulling and feel as if its hitting a wall at redline, this is a clear indication of the Utec pulling timing even though he was mixing 91 and 100 octane fuels.
After evaluating the car these were my recommendations to Kevin:
-All fuel trim and closed loop codes should be addressed first. Those codes will have to be diagnosed and fixed so we can maximize the benefit of the tunning session. He declined the recommendation stating that he knew the reason why the CEL was on because there were some cut wires on the 02 sensor. He stated he would take the car to Nissan and they would fix it under warranty.
-Timing tables will need to be changed drastically to accomodate 91 octane gas. We also temporally installed a Knock Amp for optimum knock detection during the tuning session.
-We also recommened that he should upgrade his exhaust, and that it will definitely create a disadvantage and/or drawback.
The car was tuned at 8psi with the results posted below. Car was road-tuned afterward to ensure everything was perfect for Kevin. Documentation was made on the final invoice.
Obviously we did not meet your expections, maybe you deserve somebody better.
Good luck,
Sam
GT Motorsports
I have seen you post several times after you brought the car to us, I stayed out of it because I think most of the guys on this forum have done a good job answering your questions, so I left it alone. Obviously we need to put some closure to your expierance with us. I feel we did an excellent job for you and there is nothing is I could have done to do any better under the circumastances and condition of the car that you had brought us.
The theme of the story is that sometimes you can help someone, and other times you won't be able to because they do not let themselves be helped.
Kevin brought his car to us to get re-tuned on 91 octane fuel. The car was tuned on 93 octane pervouisly from the previous owner he bought the car from. He stated that he has been mixing fuel to keep the car from detonating.
Issues with the car from the beginning:
Vehicle had the following codes:
-P1168 Closed Loop-B2
-P1065 ECU Backup Circuit
-P1051 A/F Sensor HTR B2
Fuel trime corrections via Nissan Consult II were fixed not switching due to the above codes.
My impression of his current tune before making any adjustments:
-Injector scalling was utilizing as if it had worked, that is a clear indication to me that the last person who tuned the car was not familiar with the Utec, I think everyone by now knows that the injector scalling feature on the Utec does not work, nor has it ever worked.
-Timing on the top end was at 20 degrees all the way to redline, suicidale or very aggressive to say the least for a stock engine.
-All knock parameters were untouched, the UTEC was set to pull 16 degrees of timing in the event on knock, that is what was saving this car from blowing the engine earlier. This would create a huge power loss in the event of knock due to the amount of timing be pulled by the UTEC. Kevin did confirm and state that sometimes the car would just stop pulling and feel as if its hitting a wall at redline, this is a clear indication of the Utec pulling timing even though he was mixing 91 and 100 octane fuels.
After evaluating the car these were my recommendations to Kevin:
-All fuel trim and closed loop codes should be addressed first. Those codes will have to be diagnosed and fixed so we can maximize the benefit of the tunning session. He declined the recommendation stating that he knew the reason why the CEL was on because there were some cut wires on the 02 sensor. He stated he would take the car to Nissan and they would fix it under warranty.
-Timing tables will need to be changed drastically to accomodate 91 octane gas. We also temporally installed a Knock Amp for optimum knock detection during the tuning session.
-We also recommened that he should upgrade his exhaust, and that it will definitely create a disadvantage and/or drawback.
The car was tuned at 8psi with the results posted below. Car was road-tuned afterward to ensure everything was perfect for Kevin. Documentation was made on the final invoice.
Obviously we did not meet your expections, maybe you deserve somebody better.
Good luck,
Sam
GT Motorsports
That's another thing about GTM. They document everything and save it. Anytime I have ever spoken with GTM or gotten a quote on different setups, it was always documented and saved. And when I got my invoices, they were VERY detailed and covered everything that was discussed and done to the car. GTM definitely covers their butts for cases just like this one with Kevin. What more needs to be said?? And this is the exact reason why I chose them and will continue going to them. Great job as always Sam. 
The take away from these forums is no shop is perfect AND the customer is not always right. There has been a couple bad apples fished out, but most of the shops are top notch and do their best to satisfy their customers (and even help non-customers)..
-Mark
-Mark
Originally Posted by Sam@GTM
Kevin,
I have seen you post several times after you brought the car to us, I stayed out of it because I think most of the guys on this forum have done a good job answering your questions, so I left it alone. Obviously we need to put some closure to your expierance with us. I feel we did an excellent job for you and there is nothing is I could have done to do any better under the circumastances and condition of the car that you had brought us.
The theme of the story is that sometimes you can help someone, and other times you won't be able to because they do not let themselves be helped.
Kevin brought his car to us to get re-tuned on 91 octane fuel. The car was tuned on 93 octane pervouisly from the previous owner he bought the car from. He stated that he has been mixing fuel to keep the car from detonating.
Issues with the car from the beginning:
Vehicle had the following codes:
-P1168 Closed Loop-B2
-P1065 ECU Backup Circuit
-P1051 A/F Sensor HTR B2
Fuel trime corrections via Nissan Consult II were fixed not switching due to the above codes.
My impression of his current tune before making any adjustments:
-Injector scalling was utilizing as if it had worked, that is a clear indication to me that the last person who tuned the car was not familiar with the Utec, I think everyone by now knows that the injector scalling feature on the Utec does not work, nor has it ever worked.
-Timing on the top end was at 20 degrees all the way to redline, suicidale or very aggressive to say the least for a stock engine.
-All knock parameters were untouched, the UTEC was set to pull 16 degrees of timing in the event on knock, that is what was saving this car from blowing the engine earlier. This would create a huge power loss in the event of knock due to the amount of timing be pulled by the UTEC. Kevin did confirm and state that sometimes the car would just stop pulling and feel as if its hitting a wall at redline, this is a clear indication of the Utec pulling timing even though he was mixing 91 and 100 octane fuels.
After evaluating the car these were my recommendations to Kevin:
-All fuel trim and closed loop codes should be addressed first. Those codes will have to be diagnosed and fixed so we can maximize the benefit of the tunning session. He declined the recommendation stating that he knew the reason why the CEL was on because there were some cut wires on the 02 sensor. He stated he would take the car to Nissan and they would fix it under warranty.
-Timing tables will need to be changed drastically to accomodate 91 octane gas. We also temporally installed a Knock Amp for optimum knock detection during the tuning session.
-We also recommened that he should upgrade his exhaust, and that it will definitely create a disadvantage and/or drawback.
The car was tuned at 8psi with the results posted below. Car was road-tuned afterward to ensure everything was perfect for Kevin. Documentation was made on the final invoice.
Obviously we did not meet your expections, maybe you deserve somebody better.
Good luck,
Sam
GT Motorsports
I have seen you post several times after you brought the car to us, I stayed out of it because I think most of the guys on this forum have done a good job answering your questions, so I left it alone. Obviously we need to put some closure to your expierance with us. I feel we did an excellent job for you and there is nothing is I could have done to do any better under the circumastances and condition of the car that you had brought us.
The theme of the story is that sometimes you can help someone, and other times you won't be able to because they do not let themselves be helped.
Kevin brought his car to us to get re-tuned on 91 octane fuel. The car was tuned on 93 octane pervouisly from the previous owner he bought the car from. He stated that he has been mixing fuel to keep the car from detonating.
Issues with the car from the beginning:
Vehicle had the following codes:
-P1168 Closed Loop-B2
-P1065 ECU Backup Circuit
-P1051 A/F Sensor HTR B2
Fuel trime corrections via Nissan Consult II were fixed not switching due to the above codes.
My impression of his current tune before making any adjustments:
-Injector scalling was utilizing as if it had worked, that is a clear indication to me that the last person who tuned the car was not familiar with the Utec, I think everyone by now knows that the injector scalling feature on the Utec does not work, nor has it ever worked.
-Timing on the top end was at 20 degrees all the way to redline, suicidale or very aggressive to say the least for a stock engine.
-All knock parameters were untouched, the UTEC was set to pull 16 degrees of timing in the event on knock, that is what was saving this car from blowing the engine earlier. This would create a huge power loss in the event of knock due to the amount of timing be pulled by the UTEC. Kevin did confirm and state that sometimes the car would just stop pulling and feel as if its hitting a wall at redline, this is a clear indication of the Utec pulling timing even though he was mixing 91 and 100 octane fuels.
After evaluating the car these were my recommendations to Kevin:
-All fuel trim and closed loop codes should be addressed first. Those codes will have to be diagnosed and fixed so we can maximize the benefit of the tunning session. He declined the recommendation stating that he knew the reason why the CEL was on because there were some cut wires on the 02 sensor. He stated he would take the car to Nissan and they would fix it under warranty.
-Timing tables will need to be changed drastically to accomodate 91 octane gas. We also temporally installed a Knock Amp for optimum knock detection during the tuning session.
-We also recommened that he should upgrade his exhaust, and that it will definitely create a disadvantage and/or drawback.
The car was tuned at 8psi with the results posted below. Car was road-tuned afterward to ensure everything was perfect for Kevin. Documentation was made on the final invoice.
Obviously we did not meet your expections, maybe you deserve somebody better.
Good luck,
Sam
GT Motorsports
Exhaust, well i didnt have money for a nice exhaust and didnt feel i needed it too much sine this car with this exhaust made 420WHP-430WHP in texas with this tune and i'm fine with how strong the car pulls.
I did not decline your recomendation, the problem is you detected the problem way to late in the day. i was at your shop 1 hour before you opened.
i has an appointment for 830 i think, Now i know im not your only customer but his is the reason i would not return. Sam has someone take us to the mall so were not waiting around all day, thank you that was nice and you didnt have to do that. well this is around 9 am. well me and my girls were tired of walking around the mall so we walk back to the shop at around 3pm. and the car was just being straped down on the dyno. so if sometime between 9-3 he would have told me i need an O2 sensor for proper tuning and it was possible to replace that i would have. This problem was told to me after the tuning was done, but wait it's 3pm and there has been no tuning yet. and i was at the shop now. Well he gets around to doing 1 pull on the dyno and gets a phone call and leaves to talk for maybe 15-20 min maybe longer. another pull is done, and again another phone call which is around the same amount of time. its about 5pm now and somewhere there was one more pull. He goes out for his "Road Tune" and returns in 2-3 min. dont know how that is a road tune. then the rest was stated about the O2 sensors and the ECM code. He tells me the hard start problem when hot could not be fixed with a bad O2 sensor, i dont know if this is true or not. I figure if you tune these cars so much and do so well i think you might be able to take some time and make small changes to see if you could get it, but oh well i just figured i'll have somewhere else do it when i get a new O2 sensor.
Now he comes back from the road tune and tells me theres no knock and he was happy with the tune. then when explaining the Dyno he tells me the AFR was perfect so all he had to do was pull some timing and adjust the knock detection.
This would have not been so bad if maybe he told me to come in at 3 and not 8. since i'm sure they want to check the cars out first 8 makes sense, but he should have let me know about the O2 sensor early so we mabe or maybe not could have fixed the prob.
the other thing is that when i've had cars tuned in the past they have an hourly rate and if they leave your car for some side work your not charged that time. Now i know between cool downs is something different butyou dont need a cool down after 1 run.
for 3 pulls in what i would call 45 min total spent on my car other than the time to install the knock sensor i dont think 500 for the tune was that fair. From what i gather all he did was Copy the old tune which he said he did and pull some timing i mean come on thats a little much. i have no problem paying the 500 and i did. i went there because of all the good stuff that was said..
Ok now i think he could have utilized his time on my car a little better with the amount of total time spent on the car. i did not need to be there from 8-6.
He also asked where the car was tuned ,dont know why thats his buisness but i told him and after i did he kinda siad little things here and there about them and i DONT CARE WHAT YOU OPINION IS ABOUT SOMEONE ELSES SHOP!! i am at your shop and am comming to you to do the tune, who cares if joe shmoe touched it i'm paying you to do what you do.
I used the tune to drive back to vegas and switched it back to the old tune and couldnt believe the power difference. this doesnt matter about my experiance but i've been running that dangerous tune for a few more months now and car still runs beautifully. I will use the tune done if ever traveling and dont have at least 93 oct but as for it being damgerous i dont know it's been fine a lot longer than most peoples stock block so there has to be something good it that tune. oh and i walked on an M6 with the old tune to about 160-165. in the summer heat and car NEVER "HIT A WALL" that gets me, i never said that. i ran that same M6 with the new tune and he pulled me pretty good and it's nice and cold now. whatever i cant think anymore but im sure there is other little things.
I have to agree on a few points from what I have been through myself with 3 shops on this board and one is some shops do care for thier customers and pretty much tell you want can be done and can't be done, the others just fudge numbers to make it look like they did well.
When I went from the Unichip to the Fcon VPro I noticed an almost stock driveability in the car which I had lost with the Unichip, it just feels a lot smoother to drive now.
Sam your documentation is probably the best I've seen in my years of modifying cars, I mean you even have all the calls I made to you about changes I wanted on my build on the invoice
You will be seeing me one more time before the end of this year
When I went from the Unichip to the Fcon VPro I noticed an almost stock driveability in the car which I had lost with the Unichip, it just feels a lot smoother to drive now.
Sam your documentation is probably the best I've seen in my years of modifying cars, I mean you even have all the calls I made to you about changes I wanted on my build on the invoice
You will be seeing me one more time before the end of this year
i'm going for a tune tom here in vegas with a tuner who tunes TT and supercharged domestic vehicles. well see how long it takes for him to tune and how much they charge me and how the car runs. oh they charge the same amount (500) for a tune. My appointment is a 2pm so well se how long im at the shop and if he wants to know who tuned it and what he has to say about that shop. and maybe see if he can fix the hot start problem.
^Sam (God) probably waited until the end of the day so the dyno numbers looked better (weather).
I have a question for Sam...
When you tune, what is the average amount of runs you take per car? When you tune, do you just add and subtract a little bit until you get it right or do you have a real method to your madness based on the components installed on car? What is the average time of the day that you do your tuning/dyno runs?
I have a question for Sam...
When you tune, what is the average amount of runs you take per car? When you tune, do you just add and subtract a little bit until you get it right or do you have a real method to your madness based on the components installed on car? What is the average time of the day that you do your tuning/dyno runs?
Originally Posted by kevin8086
1 day to adjust timing and charge for the day, YES
Originally Posted by kevin8086
Most of this is true, MOST. About the UTEC i can only trust what he says because i'm not a tuner and havent really messed with the UTEC so theres nothing i can say there. About the car hitting a wall at redline i never said that. i said that every once and i while the car would have a slight hesitation and this was without running any 100 in the tank. with the mix, i have never felt any hesitation. so thats a lot different than hitting a wall. This car has been running for at least 20K and probably more with this tune on 93. This car has been ran very hard. At least 110 sets of tires drifting as well as some auto X and track days and he nor i have ever had a problem with the car running strong everyday. I wanted the tune for 91 so if i travel and there is no mix or if i run low on cash i would have a safe 91 tune to fall back on.
Exhaust, well i didnt have money for a nice exhaust and didnt feel i needed it too much sine this car with this exhaust made 420WHP-430WHP in texas with this tune and i'm fine with how strong the car pulls.
I did not decline your recomendation, the problem is you detected the problem way to late in the day. i was at your shop 1 hour before you opened.
i has an appointment for 830 i think, Now i know im not your only customer but his is the reason i would not return. Sam has someone take us to the mall so were not waiting around all day, thank you that was nice and you didnt have to do that. well this is around 9 am. well me and my girls were tired of walking around the mall so we walk back to the shop at around 3pm. and the car was just being straped down on the dyno. so if sometime between 9-3 he would have told me i need an O2 sensor for proper tuning and it was possible to replace that i would have. This problem was told to me after the tuning was done, but wait it's 3pm and there has been no tuning yet. and i was at the shop now. Well he gets around to doing 1 pull on the dyno and gets a phone call and leaves to talk for maybe 15-20 min maybe longer. another pull is done, and again another phone call which is around the same amount of time. its about 5pm now and somewhere there was one more pull. He goes out for his "Road Tune" and returns in 2-3 min. dont know how that is a road tune. then the rest was stated about the O2 sensors and the ECM code. He tells me the hard start problem when hot could not be fixed with a bad O2 sensor, i dont know if this is true or not. I figure if you tune these cars so much and do so well i think you might be able to take some time and make small changes to see if you could get it, but oh well i just figured i'll have somewhere else do it when i get a new O2 sensor.
Now he comes back from the road tune and tells me theres no knock and he was happy with the tune. then when explaining the Dyno he tells me the AFR was perfect so all he had to do was pull some timing and adjust the knock detection.
This would have not been so bad if maybe he told me to come in at 3 and not 8. since i'm sure they want to check the cars out first 8 makes sense, but he should have let me know about the O2 sensor early so we mabe or maybe not could have fixed the prob.
the other thing is that when i've had cars tuned in the past they have an hourly rate and if they leave your car for some side work your not charged that time. Now i know between cool downs is something different butyou dont need a cool down after 1 run.
for 3 pulls in what i would call 45 min total spent on my car other than the time to install the knock sensor i dont think 500 for the tune was that fair. From what i gather all he did was Copy the old tune which he said he did and pull some timing i mean come on thats a little much. i have no problem paying the 500 and i did. i went there because of all the good stuff that was said..
Ok now i think he could have utilized his time on my car a little better with the amount of total time spent on the car. i did not need to be there from 8-6.
He also asked where the car was tuned ,dont know why thats his buisness but i told him and after i did he kinda siad little things here and there about them and i DONT CARE WHAT YOU OPINION IS ABOUT SOMEONE ELSES SHOP!! i am at your shop and am comming to you to do the tune, who cares if joe shmoe touched it i'm paying you to do what you do.
I used the tune to drive back to vegas and switched it back to the old tune and couldnt believe the power difference. this doesnt matter about my experiance but i've been running that dangerous tune for a few more months now and car still runs beautifully. I will use the tune done if ever traveling and dont have at least 93 oct but as for it being damgerous i dont know it's been fine a lot longer than most peoples stock block so there has to be something good it that tune. oh and i walked on an M6 with the old tune to about 160-165. in the summer heat and car NEVER "HIT A WALL" that gets me, i never said that. i ran that same M6 with the new tune and he pulled me pretty good and it's nice and cold now. whatever i cant think anymore but im sure there is other little things.
Exhaust, well i didnt have money for a nice exhaust and didnt feel i needed it too much sine this car with this exhaust made 420WHP-430WHP in texas with this tune and i'm fine with how strong the car pulls.
I did not decline your recomendation, the problem is you detected the problem way to late in the day. i was at your shop 1 hour before you opened.
i has an appointment for 830 i think, Now i know im not your only customer but his is the reason i would not return. Sam has someone take us to the mall so were not waiting around all day, thank you that was nice and you didnt have to do that. well this is around 9 am. well me and my girls were tired of walking around the mall so we walk back to the shop at around 3pm. and the car was just being straped down on the dyno. so if sometime between 9-3 he would have told me i need an O2 sensor for proper tuning and it was possible to replace that i would have. This problem was told to me after the tuning was done, but wait it's 3pm and there has been no tuning yet. and i was at the shop now. Well he gets around to doing 1 pull on the dyno and gets a phone call and leaves to talk for maybe 15-20 min maybe longer. another pull is done, and again another phone call which is around the same amount of time. its about 5pm now and somewhere there was one more pull. He goes out for his "Road Tune" and returns in 2-3 min. dont know how that is a road tune. then the rest was stated about the O2 sensors and the ECM code. He tells me the hard start problem when hot could not be fixed with a bad O2 sensor, i dont know if this is true or not. I figure if you tune these cars so much and do so well i think you might be able to take some time and make small changes to see if you could get it, but oh well i just figured i'll have somewhere else do it when i get a new O2 sensor.
Now he comes back from the road tune and tells me theres no knock and he was happy with the tune. then when explaining the Dyno he tells me the AFR was perfect so all he had to do was pull some timing and adjust the knock detection.
This would have not been so bad if maybe he told me to come in at 3 and not 8. since i'm sure they want to check the cars out first 8 makes sense, but he should have let me know about the O2 sensor early so we mabe or maybe not could have fixed the prob.
the other thing is that when i've had cars tuned in the past they have an hourly rate and if they leave your car for some side work your not charged that time. Now i know between cool downs is something different butyou dont need a cool down after 1 run.
for 3 pulls in what i would call 45 min total spent on my car other than the time to install the knock sensor i dont think 500 for the tune was that fair. From what i gather all he did was Copy the old tune which he said he did and pull some timing i mean come on thats a little much. i have no problem paying the 500 and i did. i went there because of all the good stuff that was said..
Ok now i think he could have utilized his time on my car a little better with the amount of total time spent on the car. i did not need to be there from 8-6.
He also asked where the car was tuned ,dont know why thats his buisness but i told him and after i did he kinda siad little things here and there about them and i DONT CARE WHAT YOU OPINION IS ABOUT SOMEONE ELSES SHOP!! i am at your shop and am comming to you to do the tune, who cares if joe shmoe touched it i'm paying you to do what you do.
I used the tune to drive back to vegas and switched it back to the old tune and couldnt believe the power difference. this doesnt matter about my experiance but i've been running that dangerous tune for a few more months now and car still runs beautifully. I will use the tune done if ever traveling and dont have at least 93 oct but as for it being damgerous i dont know it's been fine a lot longer than most peoples stock block so there has to be something good it that tune. oh and i walked on an M6 with the old tune to about 160-165. in the summer heat and car NEVER "HIT A WALL" that gets me, i never said that. i ran that same M6 with the new tune and he pulled me pretty good and it's nice and cold now. whatever i cant think anymore but im sure there is other little things.
Your time frame is a little off to say the least, let me explain to you, as I did before, how the charges work when it comes to tuning.
1) I made it clear to you that this was going to be an all day job, because sometimes I could spend 5 hrs, 2 days, or 2 hrs tuning a car, regardless it is still a $500 flat fee for us tuning the car. So to clairfy you did not pay $500 for "a days work" but $500 for a dyno tune. You being an hour earlier in our shop before our opening hours does not change anything. We are very busy, and it is impossible to get you in and our in 2 hours based on the $500 charges. I can assure you if I would have spent 6 hours on your care ( and in many cases this does happen ) that charges would have still been $500 for the tune.
2) We believe in consistency, we have a system that we follow from the minute the car gets in, to the final closing of the invoice and delivery of the car. Anycar that comes in for tuning is first checked codes, especially when a fuel trim code, like your case, could affect the outcome. That is before the car goes on the dyno. It does not serve my interest to strap the car on the dyno, then recommend a diangosis or sensor replacement, and that is exactly what we did. I will post a document below clearly proving the above.
This is our work order (hard copy) that the technician writes his notes on. The same copy the porter documents any damages or scracthes on your car. If you notice on the upper corner, the check engine line was checked off as being on. Also the Nissan Consult II factory scanner print out shows the time and date of when we first inspect for codes on your vehicle (10:02am).
Just to remind you, after us checking the codes, I brought up the fact that these are fuel trim codes and that they will affect our tune, your exact answer again was that you were going to take it back to Nissan and they would warranty it after you stating that you knew exactly what is wrong due to a broken wire on the 02 sensor. My comment to you was "Kevin, this car is twin turbo'd with a roll cage and a broken wire on the sensor, I dont think nissan will warranty such a thing" you responded "I know a lady at a nissan dealership that is cool with modified cars" at that point I left it alone. After that we did recommend to install a Knock Amp on the car at an additional charge, and you approved that, but declined any other work.
Keep in mind this all took place BEFORE I had someone take to you the mall.
Below is a dyno sheet showing the first pull and the last pull, along with the times. If you look at that sheet, there were a total of 9 Dyno pulls (not 3) that occured over a period of 1:32min (not 45min) This does not include the time it take to strap, un-strap the car and install/uninstall the knock amp.
Once we felt that we had accomplished what we were suppose to do there is no reason to continue making pulls on the car.
The biggest problem to this day, which you don't seem to understand after it being explained numerous times, is that your car had VERY aggressive timing. Your knock parameters were not set correctly and that is why you felt the hesistation, I am saying the phrase "it feels like it was hitting a wall" because I asked you "Does it feel like its hitting a wall or stoping" and you said yes. So technically you did not say that, but I am sure everyone can understand what I meant.
OFCOURSE your car will feel faster on the other tune, that is simply because of the overly aggressive timing. EVERYONE knows additional timing will make more power, the overly sensitive knock parameter where saving your engine before. I have told you not to use that map sense the knock parameters were set for a 91 octane timing tables. In a nutshell we lowered the threshold for knock, and you are still runing the old map. It is only a matter of time before you blow your engine if you continue to use the old tune.
You car was tuned properly for 91 octane fuel, If you cannot understand why a properly tuned car for 91 octane will feel slower than a car aggressively tuned for 93 octane than there is nothing else I can do to make you understand.
Sam
GT Motorsports
Work Order:
Dyno sheet:
P.S. on the red A/F the sniffer came out of the tailpipe hence, the A/F stopped reading.
(pre-emptive message)
Since Sam brought this discussion into the thread, that's fine, but let me reiterate again that if people start throwing BS speculation and off topic comments into this thread they might very well get banned
Since Sam brought this discussion into the thread, that's fine, but let me reiterate again that if people start throwing BS speculation and off topic comments into this thread they might very well get banned
haha! Like I said before, Sam and GTM document EVERYTHING to make sure that they cover themselves. I think that this should answer a few people's questions. And to confirm what Sam said about tuning, I paid $500 for a tune that took a couple of days to do. Not because it was a tricky or difficult tune but because a couple of unforseen issues came up and Sam wanted to address those issues which required taking my G off of the dyno and road testing it and then putting it back up on the rack and then dyno tuning again. This was done until Sam was satisfied that my G was ready for me to pick up. And I was more than happy to let him do his thing. You can't rush a tune because you never know what is going to come up.
maybe you did scan it early but i wasnt notified. You know i dont even know if its worth any of this. You obviously have ppl on here that think your a GOD and i'm just some guy this is going to turn out in your favor no matter what. Well leave it a that, because from here it's going to be a he said she said match and that will go nowhere. so i'm not discrediting any of your work but i would never make arangements to travel to your shop for the service i received, i went to your shop telling ppl i was going to have my car tuned at one of the best tuners in the country and i was stoked but by the end of the day i left quite dissapointed. I hear all this good stuff and i would rather have sent my car back to that place you dont think does all that great of work. If and when the timebomb does blow it wont be because of a bad tune it has just had a really hard run. Oh could you address why the hot start was not tuneable. you could have taken a little extra time.