Okay, gotcha. That makes sense but since you didn't explain that earlier I had to ask. Like I said, not trying to start any more arguements.

 

+1

DezilZ Glad to see your car is running great and your happy with the work, but this "God" like comments...... Well I just keep my mouth shut, but you guys know what I mean.

 

IMHO, GTM should have not even tuned the car. If the car came in and had issues that were apparant and potentially could affect the tune, they should have probably just said sorry, come back when the issues are resolved. Or they should have quoted you to fix them.. which it seems they did.

You cannot bring a car in for a tune with known issues. It seems like GTM was actually doing you a favor by tuning it. I know my tuner wouldn't even have touched the car if it came in with any issue even remotely close to what has been discussed on your car.

I know GTM is not perfect, but the discussion here is only making them look better IMO. If anything they are at fault of is trying to tune the car in the first place.

 

how does a bad O2 sensor make the car not tuneable?

 

The O2 sensor provides feedback to the car in making the appropriate adjustments necessary with air/fuel to maintain your tune, emissions, drivability, etc. You can have a fantastic tune, but if the sensor is misinterpreting a signal to the ECM, then 'tis all for naught.

 

ok, i'm not trying to be a Dik at all im just wanting info. so why does my car idle fine and run smoothly and why was this guy able to tune the car and fix the hot start with the same bad O2 sensor? i thought the utec only takes over when in boost and if thats true your not using the O2 sensor.

 

I see it as ....You are paying Sam to learn a new EMS he has never tuned before . You are paying extra for him to be able to tune other Mo-tec EMS's at your expense . He normally would have had to pay to take classes on the Mo-tec....but you are paying him to learn on your car . You saved him the time away from the shop to go to these classes . And doing so.....made him more money because he is able to work on other cars other than yours . You saying you paid a boat load of money to get it done.....Does this mean you paid more than the normal $500 fee he charges to tune a EMS he already knows ? Maybe he should have tuned it for free ! So he could learn the EMS at your expense....Seems fair to me !!!!! Somebody made out like a bandit !!!

 

Sam did take a class on how to tune Mo-tec.

 

I agree with you in a sense Ziv but the problem is that GTM has taken in cars previously tuned by other shops and done their thing with the client being very happy and satisfied with the results. Just think of all the VRT tuned cars that they have worked on and fixed with the customer being very happy. Roadster is just one that I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more. They could have very easily said they won't touch any car that was previously worked on by VRT because there are bound to be many issues with the car. But they did and the customer in every case that I have heard about or read about has been very happy. This case wasn't anywhere near as bad as some of the other cars that they worked on/tuned and there really is no way to know when someone is going to be unhappy even though they did everything in their power to do the job right. Like I said, it's impossible to satisfy 100% of the people 100% of the time.

 

again, i am fine and satisfied with the tune.

 

Even if he did...the classes are the basics . Like with anything new to me or you.....doing hands on is where you really learn to do it .

Normally high end shops have a shop car to do installs like this on first so the customer isnt with out his car longer than needed and doesnt have to pay extra for the tuner to tune something he had never tuned before

 

+1
Sam said he took a training class in it on a thread a few months ago


yeah probably, but it's just software. The tuner himself is going to be the biggest component of knowing what a good tune is

 

Unless I am mistaken, isn't GTM using the MoTeC on their TT G37?

 

How would you know ????

Knowing what a good tune is....is the easy part for a good tuner . Using different software , tuning maps , and host of other different screens to get used to would be the hardest and take the most time

 

that's still just a software learning curve.

I see this sort of thing all the time in the computer graphics and programming fields. A capable programmer/artist can switch software or programming langauge quite easily since they all do the same sorts of things. But it takes a long time to teach a beginner to become advanced even if they never switch software.

I guarantee you if you took a guy from pixar and made him switch to software he's never used before, within a week he'd be producing better work that someone who's used that software since they started learning animation, but only has been doing it for only year or two

IMO using different programs can help you understand things better as a whole

 

Working with computers is your bread and butter . You do it every day . A tuner/ shop owner is a car guy , not a computer wizzzz . For you its easy...for every one else....not so much .

And what we are talking about is the guy paying Sam to get used to using unfimiliar tuning software . Learning curves take time and the customer is paying for him to learn . Thats the point I was trying to get across.
If the learning curve is one hour or one week [ and I think he said Sam has been at it for a week ] He is paying him to learn the new software .

 

I've worked w/ and hired a pleth of peeps from digital domain and rhythm and hues who didn't know jack about very commom software ...Totally dif. in my eyes. Being on the same platform and/or envioment for so long makes it that much harder to jump to the next platform. Its all about the individual and how well they can adapt, not because of the fact if they know one kind then they'll for sure make an easy transition. I kinda think this thread is going sideways....

 

What do you know about my install or installation requirements? The fact that Sam is learning MoTec is not relavent to you or my R&D project. What is critical to my project is quality assurance.

I know GTM is among the most expensive shops on the west coast... so what? Who here doesn't already know that?

I can't have a half *** installation by some chump shop or even a 95% quality installation by a descent shop for this project. This installation isn't for my personal enjoyment, its for work. Its for detailed R&D testing that requires the highest attainable repeatability of performance.

To do that, it requires competent installation and good first time setup. The Z is a test bed. A laboratory to test and investigate bolt on mods.

If you can enlighten me to a lower cost shop, on the west coast, with equal or greater experience on VQ tuning?... Tell me about it.

 

wasn't he paying a flat $500 fee though or was sam charging more than that?


there's always some people who have their "set" ways of doing things and don't adjust to change well - regardless of if it's computers or not

 

LOL...I think you missed the point as I stated already . You are paying GTM to learn to install and tune a EMS that they have never done before . You are paying him to learn . If you feel ok with that....cool . Dig deep !