MaRbLe

iTrader: (6)

There are a few threads on here about the new HKS sc...

helldorado

iTrader: (4)

I've still yet to see what is superior about the HKS redesign vs the Rotrex SC, other than the fact its branded as HKS and is a Rotrex copy for the most part.

Wouldn't they have most likely said the same thing if they had gone with the Vortech?

There is a smaller pulley for the Rotrex. I have yet to see results from anybody running it yet though. The dyno's I've seen and first hand experience indicate the HKS gives a flatter torque curve though the Vortech supplies better top end.

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

sorry helldorado but your 100% wrong. The new hks sc was developer from the ground ip and took 4 years of development and the reason why they did this was because hks was displeased with the rotrex and its failures.

"unlike the rotrex system that uses planetary gears to spin the compressors spindle, the hks unit (transmission) utilizes ball bearing rollers to drive the spindle, thus reducing noise and stress on the components." and the gt sc uses hks's torque reponse traction drive system.

The gt supercharger is NOT a rebranded rotrex unit. Get ur facts right before posting false information.

helldorado

iTrader: (4)

I said, it was a Rotrex copy, not a rebranded Rotrex. Touchy much about the subject? Anyway, I'd question that HKS was upset about Rotrex and the failures since Rotrex has been in the market for a fairly long time. I'd think its because they didn't like having to put another company's name on one of their kits.

But c'mon, 100% wrong? Have you been drinking the kool-aid?

Rotrex has a patented roller traction drive. Its not gears, its just like HKS's "new" system. All traction drive transmissions use a planetary style set of "gears." They're still gears even though they don't have teeth.

Look and compare.

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

that does look similar...

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

k there may be similarities but its not fair to say its a rebranded copy of the rotrex. There definetly are improvements. If u think otherwise, more power to you. But copying another's product does not result in more sales, but a lawsuit. The bottom line us that the gt sc has improvements over the old rotrex. If not it wouldn't be patented. Cmon all sc's have things in common jus like all cars have wheels and an engine. Its the particular design and improvements over previous models that allow a new product to be patented, marketed, and sold.

helldorado

iTrader: (4)

Yes, but what you stated differentiates the HKS from the Rotrex, is what makes them similar. The HKS is just different enough to avoid a patent lawsuit. Show me legitimate proof of the improvements from HKS over the Rotrex.

Everything you mention here is not an improvement, and is true of the Rotrex system. If you're going to tell me I'm 100% wrong and posting false information, show me some hardcore facts!

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

Ok ur 15% wrong. Feel better? Now u state that there are differences when before u claimed there were NO differences:make up ur mind. So there are differences. Are u claiming the old rotrex is superior to the gt supercharger?

And where does it state in you posted charts that the rotrex uses ball bearing rollers?

helldorado

iTrader: (4)

I never said there were NO differences. I said it was a copy of the design within the limitations of patent law. As much as I hate to do it, I'll repeat myself for you. Eventually you're going to have to come to terms that either a) HKS wanted the basic Rotrex design with subtle differences that Rotrex didn't want to make to their units or b) its cheaper for HKS to manufacturer a 9/10 copy of the unit in China or someplace else and not have to buy the units from Rotrex which puts more money in HKS' pocket.

Before I start, I'll remind you, I'm still waiting for you to back up all your claims that the GT supercharger has all these "improvements" over the Rotrex design. You're not going to turn this into another TB spacer thread, are you?




So lets start the line of proof about the ball bearings in the Rotrex unit.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...21/ai_53106502
http://www.stormdevelopments.co.uk/p...by-rotrex.html
http://www.koenigsegg.com/thecars/en...?engineering=2
http://www.g-powertech.com/komp.htm
Look, I'll even draw a picture for you. Do you see the little round bearings in place that surround the rollers?



So unless you have some evidence of the improvements that HKS has made over the design that are legitimate improvements and not changes because of patent infringment on the traction drive design, maybe you should

Devil Z

iTrader: (6)

Owned so hard . . . .

wperdigon

iTrader: (1)

wow = thats great information right there!

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

ok-point taken--but are these charts and information you are posting on the OLD HKS rotrex supercharder, or their NEW line of Rotrex superchargers. I'm assuming its on their new lines of rotrex supercharger.

I was merely comparing the OLD HKS rotrex supercharger to the NEW HKS GT supercharger and suggesting the HKS GT supercharger is superior in design to the OLD Rotrex supercharger--not any new superchargers Rotrex has developed since then.

Are you claiming these posts and charts relate to the old HKS rotrex supercharger?--I don't think so...These seem to be specs on new developments Rotrex has made since the old HKS rotrex design. But I could be wrong--

Please post where one can buy one of those new Rotrex superchargers for the G/Z--Iwould like to see. In none of thoes links do I see a supercharger kit for the G/Z.

So until Rotrex develops a new kit for the G/Z, are you still suggesting that one purchase the old HKS rotrex system over the HKS GT-supercharger?

And you didn't "Draw" that picture, you just copied it from one of the articles you posted. But way to go--you certainly have much more time on your hands than me.


"Hks's 'torque response Traction Drive System" features a wedge roller mechanism. At low rpm the wedge roller mechanism is only applying a small drive force to the spindle, and as the the rpm increases the pushing force is increased, thus increasing the force applied to the spindle. The benefits of this system improve durability and fuel economy at city driving...Of the three bearings within the wedge roller system two of them are fixed mounted and the third is capable of moving up to 1.2mm dependent on the pulley speed."

Please show me where the Rotrex system used 3 bearings within the wedge roller system--two of which are fixed and one of which is capable of moving--I just don't see it in the pics or descriptions you posted. It seems the Rotrex sc utlitizes 3 FIXED rollers, while the HKS GT uses 2 FIXED rollers and one MOVABLE roller. There's one significant difference right there.

quote from link you provided on Rotrex: "the gearbox is a fixed ratio traction roller transmission"--where does is say that the Rotrex has a third roller that is movable--it seems all rollers are "fixed", unlike the HKS gt.

But the bottom line to you is that...
Rotrex is is the holy grail and HKS is a bunch of copiers and swindlers who wish to make money and steal others ideas--I would absolutely love for you to say that to Hiroyuki Hasegawa or Goichi Kitagawa, and see how they respond to your attack on their development of their products--Thanks for sharing!

ooooh. I'm owned and you bursted my bubble. Big deal--Hope you get a nice big internet trophy for your efforts.

And to compare the HKS GT supercharger to a TB spacer in terms of improvements is absolutely tard.

cdoxp800

iTrader: (12)

Here is an attachment from HKS. This may help some

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

he posted Rotrex info because you wanted proof they were ball bearing.

guy, just give up.. helldorado really knows his stuff... TRUST ME.

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

Straight from the mouth of Hiroyuki Hasegawa:

"Low pushing force (at low rpm range) reduces deformation force of input ring i.e. reduces excessive drive force compared to FIXED ROLLER TRACTION DRIVE LIKE ROTREX."

SO:
ROTREX: FIXED ROLLER TRACTION DRIVE
HKS GT: MOVABLE ROLLER TRACTION DRIVE=Improves durability and improves fuel economy at city driving.

Proof enough for you Mr. Rotrex?

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

Yea, Helldorado knows his stuff and I was wrong that Rotrex does indeed use ball bearings...BUT

the ROTREX is entirely FIXED, the HKS is not! There are benefits to having a movable roller, unlike the Rotrex's entrely fixed rollers.

helldorado

iTrader: (4)

The HKS kit uses the C30 supercharger. The design on the C series has been the same since 2004. I literally have a Rotrex from a HKS kit sitting on the shelf next to my desk and its stamped with C30 on it. There is no NEW vs OLD Rotrex to compare here. The C series has gone in base design unchanged since 2004. There's the C15, C30 and C38. That's it. Where are you getting this misinformation from?

Again, no old vs new. The Rotrex on the HKS kits are the same units that Rotrex still sells now.

As stated above, they all relate to the C series which is the only line of superchargers that Rotrex has produced since 2004. They're all the same. Even the Koenigsegg uses the off the shelf C38 supercharger.

And I'm not suggesting that people try to find a discontinued system. What I am stating is that the GT supercharger does not offer any tangible benefit as being a superior as you maintain it is.

I could've drawn it. I'm quite artistic. But if me spending 15 minutes correcting your misinformation due to a misguided fanboy-ism is necessary to keep people straight, then its worthwhile.


Direct from the Rotrex website.

The Rotrex patented traction drive uses an elastic annulus with a small pre-span to secure contact between the roller planets and the sun shaft with a reasonable force. The patented "ramp effect" increases efficiency and reliability in the transmission by regulating the torque transfer capability on demand through self-adjusting planet geometry.

Same basic effect. I'm not going to get into a semantics argument with you since that is your only defense and I'm not going to waste time trying to find a technecial document that supports the microscopic movement of the bearings.

Actually, the bottom line is you're misinformed about the Rotrex and spreading propaganda because you've latched fully onto HKS bandwagon.

You can take your ball and go home now. I'm done with this thread as you're clearly not going to see the similarities in two units are are insistent that the HKS version is superior because its HKS and not Rotrex. My apologies to the OP.

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

dude really... don't bother. I think Helldorado provided enough proof on the similarities and that quote you pulled, without a source BTW, isn't worth anything IMO.

admit you made a statement based on assumptions from marketing material and bad english translations with no real knowledge of what it meant and be done with this

either way, the HKS unit(s) both are quality I am sure, although I trust Rotrex more as they are a specialized company with a history in this exact product.

jonnylaw

iTrader: (3)

So please explain away the fact that Rotrex is entirely a fixed roller system, while the HKS GT features a movable roller

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

do you even know what that means? seriously.