short block build for s/c and 100 shot of nitrous
12-05-2007, 02:17 PM
#21
can some people chime in that are running a T trim! and what type of built engine are you running! i am sending my SC trim out this weekend to be modded to a Si trim. i like to make small steps in upgrades. not major leaps! lol...i am curious with a T trim what C/R are people running ,and what boost levels are they hitting.
12-05-2007, 02:23 PM
#23
yeah the other thing is going to a bigger blower will make you lose around 20 tq or so at low rpms as a trade off to make more power at mid-high rpms. To me that's just another reason why a stroker kit would be nice - to regain that lost power from running a bigger blower and lower compression and still make more overall low rpm power
a good place to dig around is on the mustang forums where they run SC and T-trims on their cars and talk about their first hand experiences with them. The T-trim will come on harder - more like how a turbo would in that it will start off with less power than the SC trim, then quickly have more power than the SC trim.
Also I think a stroker kit + larger blower would maintain the linear traction loss the vortech has because when the power comes on more suddenly than how much the tires are turning, that'll hurt traction. Much the same way how you can do a burn out in 1st gear with only 20% throttle at low rpms because it's a sudden shock of a difference going from no power to 20% power
So when people talk about how a T-trim gave them "more" power at low rpms because they can now spin the tires out sooner - take stuff like that with a grain of salt unless they have a before/after dyno to back that up.
a good place to dig around is on the mustang forums where they run SC and T-trims on their cars and talk about their first hand experiences with them. The T-trim will come on harder - more like how a turbo would in that it will start off with less power than the SC trim, then quickly have more power than the SC trim.
Also I think a stroker kit + larger blower would maintain the linear traction loss the vortech has because when the power comes on more suddenly than how much the tires are turning, that'll hurt traction. Much the same way how you can do a burn out in 1st gear with only 20% throttle at low rpms because it's a sudden shock of a difference going from no power to 20% power
So when people talk about how a T-trim gave them "more" power at low rpms because they can now spin the tires out sooner - take stuff like that with a grain of salt unless they have a before/after dyno to back that up.
Last edited by sentry65; 12-05-2007 at 02:42 PM.
12-05-2007, 02:34 PM
#26
I know of 3 people who ran a T-trim with the 3.5 liter engine.
Booger was the first. His approach was to leave the belt system alone and tighten the crap out of the tensioner. He still had slippage with the T-trim. He never tried any of the other idler pulleys or the TIMROD setup. He later bought a full cog belt setup from the Dsport car. He went with a larger pulley and is trying to keep it below 16 psi since that's as high as his SS box can tune to. He needs a standalone really, but his car is an automatic and there's few options that suit him. His engine has 8.5:1 CR and went with a larger intercooler and piping
The Dsport G35 did the cog setup with the T-trim and was going to shoot for 25 psi (which was completely stupid when you actually graph it out on the T-trim compressor map with a 3.5 liter engine). He was going to rev to 8000 rpms which as far as I remember was going to overspin the blower by a lot even with their totally different belt system. The belts didn't slip, they broke...and broke and broke and broke. At least above 7000 rpms they did. Dsport went with 3 inch intake piping and intercooler and 8.8:1 CR and it really shows on their dynochart - which had horrible low rpm power. It only had around 205 tq at 3000 rpms (stock NA is usually around 220 tq at 3k rpms). My car had about 295 tq at 3000 rpms on the same dyno. Then again, I'm not sure how close to finished the tune was with the Dsport G35. He's now using a JWT TT kit
Diesel is the 3rd person I've heard of using a T-trim. He was on the stock block and had a good tune with some nice power. He went to the track and the engine blew 10 minutes later. We still haven't heard any word on if there was any conclusion as to why it blew. I don't think it was the tune though, probably just too much stress. He was running 13 psi. He ran just the GTM idler pulley and I could be wrong because I don't know how the tune was setup, but it looks to me like his belt might have been slightly slipping above 6200 rpms
I personally, wouldn't upgrade the intercooler until running a stroked engine where more overall air volume will be passing through it. Otherwise with the stock 3.5 liter engine, you can run more and more boost or use a bigger blower, but it isn't anything water/meth couldn't handle with keeping the air cool
Booger was the first. His approach was to leave the belt system alone and tighten the crap out of the tensioner. He still had slippage with the T-trim. He never tried any of the other idler pulleys or the TIMROD setup. He later bought a full cog belt setup from the Dsport car. He went with a larger pulley and is trying to keep it below 16 psi since that's as high as his SS box can tune to. He needs a standalone really, but his car is an automatic and there's few options that suit him. His engine has 8.5:1 CR and went with a larger intercooler and piping
The Dsport G35 did the cog setup with the T-trim and was going to shoot for 25 psi (which was completely stupid when you actually graph it out on the T-trim compressor map with a 3.5 liter engine). He was going to rev to 8000 rpms which as far as I remember was going to overspin the blower by a lot even with their totally different belt system. The belts didn't slip, they broke...and broke and broke and broke. At least above 7000 rpms they did. Dsport went with 3 inch intake piping and intercooler and 8.8:1 CR and it really shows on their dynochart - which had horrible low rpm power. It only had around 205 tq at 3000 rpms (stock NA is usually around 220 tq at 3k rpms). My car had about 295 tq at 3000 rpms on the same dyno. Then again, I'm not sure how close to finished the tune was with the Dsport G35. He's now using a JWT TT kit
Diesel is the 3rd person I've heard of using a T-trim. He was on the stock block and had a good tune with some nice power. He went to the track and the engine blew 10 minutes later. We still haven't heard any word on if there was any conclusion as to why it blew. I don't think it was the tune though, probably just too much stress. He was running 13 psi. He ran just the GTM idler pulley and I could be wrong because I don't know how the tune was setup, but it looks to me like his belt might have been slightly slipping above 6200 rpms
I personally, wouldn't upgrade the intercooler until running a stroked engine where more overall air volume will be passing through it. Otherwise with the stock 3.5 liter engine, you can run more and more boost or use a bigger blower, but it isn't anything water/meth couldn't handle with keeping the air cool
Last edited by sentry65; 12-05-2007 at 03:28 PM.
12-05-2007, 02:38 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by sentry65
I know of 3 people who ran a T-trim with the 3.5 liter engine.
Booger was the first. His approach was to leave the belt system alone and tighten the crap out of the tensioner. He still had slippage with the T-trim. He never tried any of the other idler pulleys or the TIMROD setup. He later bought a full cog belt setup from the Dsport car. He went with a larger pulley and is trying to keep it below 16 psi since that's as high as his SS box can tune to. He needs a standalone really, but his car is an automatic and there's few options that suit him. His engine has 8.5:1 CR and went with a larger intercooler and piping
The Dsport car did the cog setup with the T-trim and was going to shoot for 25 psi (which was completely stupid when you actually graph it out on the T-trim compressor map with a 3.5 liter engine). He was going to rev to 8000 rpms which as far as I remember was going to overspin the blower by a lot even with their totally different belt system. The belts didn't slip, they broke...and broke and broke and broke. At least above 7000 rpms they did. Dsport went with 3 inch intake piping and intercooler and 8.8:1 CR and it really shows on their dynochart
Diesel is the other person I've heard of using a T-trim on the stock block. He had a good tune and made some nice power. He went to the track and the engine blew 10 minutes later. We still haven't heard any word on if there was any conclusion as to why it blew. I don't think it was the tune though, probably just too much stress. He was running 13 psi
I personally, wouldn't upgrade the intercooler until running a stroked engine where more overall air volume will be passing through it. Otherwise with the stock 3.5 liter engine, you can run more and more boost or use a bigger blower, but it isn't anything water/meth couldn't handle with keeping the air cool
Booger was the first. His approach was to leave the belt system alone and tighten the crap out of the tensioner. He still had slippage with the T-trim. He never tried any of the other idler pulleys or the TIMROD setup. He later bought a full cog belt setup from the Dsport car. He went with a larger pulley and is trying to keep it below 16 psi since that's as high as his SS box can tune to. He needs a standalone really, but his car is an automatic and there's few options that suit him. His engine has 8.5:1 CR and went with a larger intercooler and piping
The Dsport car did the cog setup with the T-trim and was going to shoot for 25 psi (which was completely stupid when you actually graph it out on the T-trim compressor map with a 3.5 liter engine). He was going to rev to 8000 rpms which as far as I remember was going to overspin the blower by a lot even with their totally different belt system. The belts didn't slip, they broke...and broke and broke and broke. At least above 7000 rpms they did. Dsport went with 3 inch intake piping and intercooler and 8.8:1 CR and it really shows on their dynochart
Diesel is the other person I've heard of using a T-trim on the stock block. He had a good tune and made some nice power. He went to the track and the engine blew 10 minutes later. We still haven't heard any word on if there was any conclusion as to why it blew. I don't think it was the tune though, probably just too much stress. He was running 13 psi
I personally, wouldn't upgrade the intercooler until running a stroked engine where more overall air volume will be passing through it. Otherwise with the stock 3.5 liter engine, you can run more and more boost or use a bigger blower, but it isn't anything water/meth couldn't handle with keeping the air cool
12-05-2007, 02:45 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by istan
^ I was like, damn I know someone who should look into this tread...Er, wait, it is you. 
Performance Factory uses more Nitrous than most dentists.
Performance Factory uses more Nitrous than most dentists.
So TRUE!!! lol
12-05-2007, 02:54 PM
#29
the other thing I've been wondering, is with a big stroker kit and the vortech delivering extra air at idle right off the bat, then having a 1200 rpm idle along with the 3.9 final drive, if I could make 2nd gear my new "1st" gear. This would save a gear shift, and you wouldn't have to drop back down to such low rpms after the initial 1st gear shift (around 4000 rpms after shifting out of 1st at 6600 rpms)
I can start in 2nd gear as is right now, but you gotta rev to like 2000-2200 rpms and it takes a half second or so for it to actually engage - not to mention it's probably a little worse on the clutch. But with the stroker kit generating more tq right off the bat, I wonder if 2nd gear would turn the driveshaft easy enough to just never use 1st gear again (which is way too short)
This is something I don't think a turbo setup would have as easy of a time doing because right at idle, the turbo setup will be making NA power even if it's a 4.24 stroker. No turbo will already be spooled at idle unless you have antilag or using a two-step launch every time you start from a stop
At 1200 rpms idle and a 2.87 pulley, the vortech blower is already spinning at 9726 rpms and so if you rev to 1600 rpms to engage the car, that'd be just under 13k rpms that the blower is already spinning at (or 1/4 of the full blower rpms) making that air available to you right off of idle. This isn't really something you see in a dyno chart since dynos don't really ever start their run from idle rpms
I can start in 2nd gear as is right now, but you gotta rev to like 2000-2200 rpms and it takes a half second or so for it to actually engage - not to mention it's probably a little worse on the clutch. But with the stroker kit generating more tq right off the bat, I wonder if 2nd gear would turn the driveshaft easy enough to just never use 1st gear again (which is way too short)
This is something I don't think a turbo setup would have as easy of a time doing because right at idle, the turbo setup will be making NA power even if it's a 4.24 stroker. No turbo will already be spooled at idle unless you have antilag or using a two-step launch every time you start from a stop
At 1200 rpms idle and a 2.87 pulley, the vortech blower is already spinning at 9726 rpms and so if you rev to 1600 rpms to engage the car, that'd be just under 13k rpms that the blower is already spinning at (or 1/4 of the full blower rpms) making that air available to you right off of idle. This isn't really something you see in a dyno chart since dynos don't really ever start their run from idle rpms
Last edited by sentry65; 12-05-2007 at 03:17 PM.
12-05-2007, 03:48 PM
#30
hey man, we can do our basic shortblock for you with all the goodies we include. its 4999 for the shortblock with our JE custom dual coated pistons, eagle rods, HKS headgasket, ARP L19 headstuds, rev up oil pump all assembled and ready to go. we have seen mid 600s on this setup with no problems at all.
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
12-05-2007, 06:08 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
hey man, we can do our basic shortblock for you with all the goodies we include. its 4999 for the shortblock with our JE custom dual coated pistons, eagle rods, HKS headgasket, ARP L19 headstuds, rev up oil pump all assembled and ready to go. we have seen mid 600s on this setup with no problems at all.
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
1. what compression ration will the engine have after the build.
2. my engine is a rev-up. i think the only cams available are the s7 rev up cams. will they work with this setup or are they to aggressive. correct me if i am wrong but i heard the stock rev up cams are pretty close to the jwt s2 cams. i have not looked into the cam spec's myself so this could be incorrect.
3.what power level is expected without the nitrous,and with the nitrous( 100 shot).
thank you.
12-05-2007, 06:20 PM
#32
hey there.
ok, i would go with somewhere around 9 to 1 compression with your setup.
i would also run 125 shot on top of it. with the right tuning , it will be a monster.
you will be at around 550 rwtq and 525rwhp on 125 shot with your current Vortech setup. if you could get a better blower on there, it could only get better...
let me know!!
ok, i would go with somewhere around 9 to 1 compression with your setup.
i would also run 125 shot on top of it. with the right tuning , it will be a monster.
you will be at around 550 rwtq and 525rwhp on 125 shot with your current Vortech setup. if you could get a better blower on there, it could only get better...
let me know!!
12-05-2007, 06:24 PM
#33
12-05-2007, 07:59 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
hey there.
ok, i would go with somewhere around 9 to 1 compression with your setup.
i would also run 125 shot on top of it. with the right tuning , it will be a monster.
you will be at around 550 rwtq and 525rwhp on 125 shot with your current Vortech setup. if you could get a better blower on there, it could only get better...
let me know!!
ok, i would go with somewhere around 9 to 1 compression with your setup.
i would also run 125 shot on top of it. with the right tuning , it will be a monster.
you will be at around 550 rwtq and 525rwhp on 125 shot with your current Vortech setup. if you could get a better blower on there, it could only get better...
let me know!!
12-05-2007, 08:19 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
hey man, we can do our basic shortblock for you with all the goodies we include. its 4999 for the shortblock with our JE custom dual coated pistons, eagle rods, HKS headgasket, ARP L19 headstuds, rev up oil pump all assembled and ready to go. we have seen mid 600s on this setup with no problems at all.
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
if you do the engine, that would be the time to add cams. JWT cams with springs and shims installed will be another 1500 dollars.
this would be the ideal set up for sure, you could spray a 100 shot on a vortech at 14 psi on 93 octane all day long safely...
damn that's a great deal for a short block.
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