because there is alot to be said for day to day civility, not everyone wants a car idling at 1100 rpm +, and not everyone at the time had the means to adjust for VTC

 

eh guess so

then again why on earth would a 700+whp tuner RWD car be considered civil?

 

I also dont understand why people going for big power even waste their time with 262 or 264 cams. Only way I could see, is it they wanted more powe under the curve to sacrifice some topend gain.

 

because it shouldnt have to be all nasty to run that type of power, and it doesnt have to run that much power day to day (IMHO).

 

Actually a fair amout of big HP Supra's and Evo's run 264/272, 264/264, and sometimes 272/272. There is no need for an overly agressive cam if the other components are put together to make top end power. That means the turbo need to be sized properly, the intake manifold need to be designed with high RPM harmonics in mind, and you have to run enough boost.

 

Yea but most of the high hp supras are making 75rwhp from cams and 100rwhp from an intake manifold alone, not 10rwhp!

 

I know some people run them. I have 2 friends with supras that run 272s and a friend with an evo that has 280s. 272s are what I consider the start of an aggresive cam. Some use the 264 in the supra world, but people that are going for 700+ usually switch to a 272 or 280. The 264 do help out on the supras a good bit, thats just because their stock cams suck.

On a 350z I am not impressed by a 264 over stock.

 

Get some GTM 288's . . . .

 

hummm
i think an ems with VCT can get more out o the already existing cams in the market

 

Unless you're running a big turbo(s) to support air flow at high rpms, big cams aren't the best choice... It's all about comprimises and overall objectives...

 

thank you!!

for all those who think that "264" is wimpy and "280" makes you more cooler, do yourselves a favor and pick up a book on building engines - I promise you'll learn alot!

 

I agree and most of those guys with 700+ whp have "big" turbos ...big as in big twins

APS extreme, SFR, JWT 850bb, etc

 

+1 there is alot more than duration that dictates the attitude of a cam.you can have two so called "264's" that behave much different from each other.

 

This is where dyno numbers can play with the relative scale. RPM determines HP in alot of these instances. Supras make so much torque so late in the power band (most make peak TRQ between 6000 and 8000 RPM) that they will show huge HP increases from very small torque increases. HP = (TRQ x RPM)/5250. After 5250 RPM's if you are maintianing a reasonable torque curve you are assurd higher HP.

Example:

500 ft/lbs@9000 RPM = 857.14...HP

add 10 ft/lbs = 874.28...HP

Delta = 17.14...HP

500ft/lbs@6000 RPM = 571.42...HP

add 10 ft/lbs (510 ft/lbs@6000 RPM) = 581.85...HP

Delta = 11.43...HP

A real word example is a car I helped my friend put together. NA Supra with JDM TT Motor Swap and 6SP conversion. With a GT74, HKS 264's, HKS Cam Gears, AEM EMS, Stock Intake Manifold, Heads and Motor it made over 700 DJ HP at ~28PSI and 8000 or 8500RPM redline. He just ran a 10.3 with stock NA suspension (great driver). He gained more power through turbo sizing, boost levels, and RPM's then he ever would have seen by upgrading to 272's.

Basically the point is that Peak HP is only useful information in the correct context and scale. The point of the Cosworth is so that we can make power above 7000 RPM's with properly sized turbos. A TT kit or large single kit is really going to show us the real delta.

 

Yeah, I guess everyone else and I that like bigger then 264 dont know anything about engines . Its not about being cool its about top end power. For the turbos included in most of all the twin kits sold for the 350z a cam bigger then a 264 would be helpful to get all you can out of the "relatively small" turbos. But I guess I am in the minority that wants 20+psi and power climbing all the way to 7k.

Sorry, but 264s are small in the cam world. Not saying power can not be had, they are just smaller than I like.

 

until now, it's a bit of dissapointing

 

I would hardly call it disappointing, more like 'promising'. At a meager 6300rpm we are already witnessing 25+whp gain over stock, and more than 10whp gain over plenum spacer. I am looking forward to a 7000+rpm test, which should happen today or tomorrow.

 

+1000

 

You've completely misread what I wrote, but that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. The duration is one small part of the cam equation. Many other factors determine the peak power that happens and where in the rpm range it happens. I never said that there is no place for a cam bigger than a 264. But it has to be matched to the rest of the setup, and the lift and ramp rate are far more critical aspects than just the advertised duration. If you want bigger, that's fine, but a "264" tells you just about nothing when its all said and done. It's about matching a cam to the rest of the setup, not the other way around IMHO. There are cams that some might consider mild on the duration side, for various platforms, that absolutely crush higher duration cams. But each motor has a sweet spot that it wants, and there are lots of variables involved in determining what cam a particular engine craves. Going strictly by the off the shelf #'s is among the worst ways to select a camshaft for any motor.

 

I don't think the results are disppointing, I think they are interesting to say the least, and sets the groundfloor for what others suspected the manifold will do. I don't think this was designed with a stock motor in mind