Thinking of going Greddy insted APS
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From: Myrtle Beach, SC
Thinking of going Greddy insted APS
So I've been saving for awhile now with a APS tuner kit & utech in mind. I'm only going with posted prices for the kits b/c I don't want to ask "How much?" until I know I've saved enough.
My question is, the Greddy turbo's aren't water cooled are they? I almost have enough for that kit, but with I'm not sure if it's worth the wait to get the APS kit. It gets really hot here and think having the water cooled turbo's would help out a lot.
My question is, the Greddy turbo's aren't water cooled are they? I almost have enough for that kit, but with I'm not sure if it's worth the wait to get the APS kit. It gets really hot here and think having the water cooled turbo's would help out a lot.
Originally Posted by sentry65
greddy is not water cooled, you might want a turbo timer or you'll have to just make sure to let the turbos cool off before shutting down
Originally Posted by gsxrjohn
So I've been saving for awhile now with a APS tuner kit & utech in mind. I'm only going with posted prices for the kits b/c I don't want to ask "How much?" until I know I've saved enough.
My question is, the Greddy turbo's aren't water cooled are they? I almost have enough for that kit, but with I'm not sure if it's worth the wait to get the APS kit. It gets really hot here and think having the water cooled turbo's would help out a lot.
My question is, the Greddy turbo's aren't water cooled are they? I almost have enough for that kit, but with I'm not sure if it's worth the wait to get the APS kit. It gets really hot here and think having the water cooled turbo's would help out a lot.
I think unless you plan to run your car extremely hard for extremely long periods of time, you're not missing much with the water cooling. Also, you may want to do a little research into APS customer service.
Originally Posted by pimpsahab
+1..greddy kit has more potential i believe but aps is better quality IMO..
Originally Posted by JAMEZ
As far as pricing goes, to do what is essentially a very basic TT setup, the price of the turbo kit is really only about roughly 1/3 of what you're going to spend on the whole thing. You gotta think of install, tuning, boost controller, blow-off valve at the very minimum. You're also probably going to want a new true dual exhaust, not to mention a fuel-return system, and since the engine is coming out, a new clutch and flywheel. The bottom line here is that just when you think have an idea about what its going to cost, throw that amount out, because its going to be more.
I think unless you plan to run your car extremely hard for extremely long periods of time, you're not missing much with the water cooling. Also, you may want to do a little research into APS customer service.
I think unless you plan to run your car extremely hard for extremely long periods of time, you're not missing much with the water cooling. Also, you may want to do a little research into APS customer service.
The turbos being watercooled is a benefit, but not a huge factor. The greddy turbos are "old school" in a sense, but have proven to be fairly decent. I would not want to run a turbo timer regardless of my setup; they are just a pain in the @ss. just don't go from a hard run to imediate shut down and you will be fine on either kit
IMHO, the APS kit is the better kit. It may not be the right choice for you depending on your needs and what not. In terms of oem style fitment and quality of components the APS wins out
Originally Posted by Zivman
what's with you and the customer service? buy from a reputable dealer and you will be fine. The kit is FAR less proned to things breaking than others on the market. I don't have too much against the greddy kit, but personally one of my main concerns was not wanting to loose my front impact beam... not so much in fear of an accident, but in keeping the stability of the car/frame. I also believe the APS kit to be better quality and fitment.
The turbos being watercooled is a benefit, but not a huge factor. The greddy turbos are "old school" in a sense, but have proven to be fairly decent. I would not want to run a turbo timer regardless of my setup; they are just a pain in the @ss. just don't go from a hard run to imediate shut down and you will be fine on either kit
IMHO, the APS kit is the better kit. It may not be the right choice for you depending on your needs and what not. In terms of oem style fitment and quality of components the APS wins out
The turbos being watercooled is a benefit, but not a huge factor. The greddy turbos are "old school" in a sense, but have proven to be fairly decent. I would not want to run a turbo timer regardless of my setup; they are just a pain in the @ss. just don't go from a hard run to imediate shut down and you will be fine on either kit
IMHO, the APS kit is the better kit. It may not be the right choice for you depending on your needs and what not. In terms of oem style fitment and quality of components the APS wins out
The Greddy turbo's are fairly decent? Some of the most powerful cars on this forum use the Greddy kit, so I think you're selling them a bit short by calling them merely "fairly decent". As far as the turbo timer, its not a necessity by any stretch of the imagination, but as far *** being a pain in the @ss, its a reasonably simple device, so if you have someone who knows what they're doing put it in, then you will be fine.
As far as quality goes, both kits are top notch, and thats all I'll say about that.
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Originally Posted by JAMEZ
Well, my car is my daily driver (temporarily at least), so to me, its very important that it runs flawlessly. God forbid something breaks on my kit, I'm not going to assume that Forged Performance, which we can all agree is a reputable dealer, simply has a bunch of spare Greddy TT kit parts laying around the shop. So to me, it's important that I or my shop can easily contact the manufacturer and quickly resolve any problem I might be having.
Just curious how many support issue situations you have had in regards to an APS setup? So unless you are speaking from experience, please leave your speculation out of this discussion. I have had something warrantied on my APS kit and it was a 24 hr turn around including installation on my car. I am sorry you think having to deal with your authorized dealer is not the best route for you. When a person wants warranty work on their car do they contact their dealer or the manufacturer? Personally I contact my dealer first and then if I have to, contact the manufacturer on warranty issues
The Greddy turbo's are fairly decent? Some of the most powerful cars on this forum use the Greddy kit, so I think you're selling them a bit short by calling them merely "fairly decent". As far as the turbo timer, its not a necessity by any stretch of the imagination, but as far *** being a pain in the @ss, its a reasonably simple device, so if you have someone who knows what they're doing put it in, then you will be fine.
The greddy turbos are fine... what's your argument? They are larger turbos than the ones with the APS kit and thus have more power potential.
I have had cars with turbo timers and they are more trouble than they are worth. I ended up just shutting them off most of the time. when working on the car, when tooling around town, just one more thing to screw around with. I have no issues with the install, just the constant hassle of dealing with it
As far as quality goes, both kits are top notch, and thats all I'll say about that.
Just curious how many support issue situations you have had in regards to an APS setup? So unless you are speaking from experience, please leave your speculation out of this discussion. I have had something warrantied on my APS kit and it was a 24 hr turn around including installation on my car. I am sorry you think having to deal with your authorized dealer is not the best route for you. When a person wants warranty work on their car do they contact their dealer or the manufacturer? Personally I contact my dealer first and then if I have to, contact the manufacturer on warranty issues
The Greddy turbo's are fairly decent? Some of the most powerful cars on this forum use the Greddy kit, so I think you're selling them a bit short by calling them merely "fairly decent". As far as the turbo timer, its not a necessity by any stretch of the imagination, but as far *** being a pain in the @ss, its a reasonably simple device, so if you have someone who knows what they're doing put it in, then you will be fine.
The greddy turbos are fine... what's your argument? They are larger turbos than the ones with the APS kit and thus have more power potential.
I have had cars with turbo timers and they are more trouble than they are worth. I ended up just shutting them off most of the time. when working on the car, when tooling around town, just one more thing to screw around with. I have no issues with the install, just the constant hassle of dealing with it
As far as quality goes, both kits are top notch, and thats all I'll say about that.
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From: Myrtle Beach, SC
+1..greddy kit has more potential
As far as pricing goes, to do what is essentially a very basic TT setup, the price of the turbo kit is really only about roughly 1/3 of what you're going to spend on the whole thing. You gotta think of install, tuning, boost controller, blow-off valve at the very minimum. You're also probably going to want a new true dual exhaust, not to mention a fuel-return system, and since the engine is coming out, a new clutch and flywheel. The bottom line here is that just when you think have an idea about what its going to cost, throw that amount out, because its going to be more.
I don't have too much against the greddy kit, but personally one of my main concerns was not wanting to loose my front impact beam...
Originally Posted by gsxrjohn
How do you mean?
it has more HP potential down the road.... the APS kit maxes out around 600 and change, and the greddy will get you mid to upper 600's, maybe 700 on race gas - of course with builds
I already have planned for this. I have already purchased some of the essentials. Evo TT already installed. I'm trying to buy the parts with cash and MasterCard is gonna take care of the install. Thanks for your insight though, good advice never gets old.
I didn't mean to start a argument between which is better, but I wasn't aware that the Greddy kit, or any other, called to remove the FIB. I've done a lot of reading on these kits and never caught that. Thanks for the input guys. Is there somewhere I can read more on the Greddy kit?
it has more HP potential down the road.... the APS kit maxes out around 600 and change, and the greddy will get you mid to upper 600's, maybe 700 on race gas - of course with builds
I already have planned for this. I have already purchased some of the essentials. Evo TT already installed. I'm trying to buy the parts with cash and MasterCard is gonna take care of the install. Thanks for your insight though, good advice never gets old.
I didn't mean to start a argument between which is better, but I wasn't aware that the Greddy kit, or any other, called to remove the FIB. I've done a lot of reading on these kits and never caught that. Thanks for the input guys. Is there somewhere I can read more on the Greddy kit?
just did a quick search for you - this is meant to be informative about issues I have seen expressed about the greddy kit:
Originally Posted by Hydrazine
Mushroom of death is a fitting description.
I've installed so many plenum spacers at GTG's and dyno days I can't count them all. And I've seen the results of many different air filters. Some plenums are clean and some are dirty. Its "usually" that the dirtier plenums has some sort of after market filter but not always.
But by far the worst nightmare plenum I've seen was a plenum absolutely full of a thick oily mud sludge on a Greddy TT kit with the mushrooms of death.
The mushrooms of death can't even be called filters. At best they are rock catchers and nothing more. This plenum was so full of oily mud sludge I spent 1/2 hour with rubbing alcohol trying to clean all the gunk out. It was really bad. A group of people were standing around the car staring in amazement. Horrible...
I couldn't help but think of how much of that dirt had to get inhaled into the engine. I told the guy to immediatly get thoes things off and replace them with something like a Pop Charger filter or anything. Anything short of no filter at all is better than the mushrooms of death.
Bad stuff.
I've installed so many plenum spacers at GTG's and dyno days I can't count them all. And I've seen the results of many different air filters. Some plenums are clean and some are dirty. Its "usually" that the dirtier plenums has some sort of after market filter but not always.
But by far the worst nightmare plenum I've seen was a plenum absolutely full of a thick oily mud sludge on a Greddy TT kit with the mushrooms of death.
The mushrooms of death can't even be called filters. At best they are rock catchers and nothing more. This plenum was so full of oily mud sludge I spent 1/2 hour with rubbing alcohol trying to clean all the gunk out. It was really bad. A group of people were standing around the car staring in amazement. Horrible...
I couldn't help but think of how much of that dirt had to get inhaled into the engine. I told the guy to immediatly get thoes things off and replace them with something like a Pop Charger filter or anything. Anything short of no filter at all is better than the mushrooms of death.
Bad stuff.
Originally Posted by westpak
Well not sure how many have had this issue, but when I started going up in boost I was having issues with the MAF housing couplings when boosting in the 15 psi range. It would hold for a few runs but eventually blow the coupling off.
I could not find the right tightening for the clamps to hold, if I went really tight it would hold but the plastic MAF housing would distort and go egg shape and my fear was that the plastic would eventually crack and if I didn't tighten enough it would blow off.
So I had a custom one piece intake made up at an exhaust shop and powder coated silver, first attempt was to do it red to match the plenum but could not get the shade right, so I went with silver instead.
I kept the MAF even though I don't need it with the Fcon but just too lazy to wire it up to prevent CEL lights.
Next step will eventually be to use the FCON to trigger a MAF type Water/Meth kit.
So now with Turbonetics couplings and t-bolt clamps no more coupling issues
I could not find the right tightening for the clamps to hold, if I went really tight it would hold but the plastic MAF housing would distort and go egg shape and my fear was that the plastic would eventually crack and if I didn't tighten enough it would blow off.
So I had a custom one piece intake made up at an exhaust shop and powder coated silver, first attempt was to do it red to match the plenum but could not get the shade right, so I went with silver instead.
I kept the MAF even though I don't need it with the Fcon but just too lazy to wire it up to prevent CEL lights.
Next step will eventually be to use the FCON to trigger a MAF type Water/Meth kit.
So now with Turbonetics couplings and t-bolt clamps no more coupling issues
and one more:
Link
Last edited by Zivman; Feb 10, 2008 at 06:06 PM.
Originally Posted by Zivman
I am not knocking the greddy kit, but in terms of quality the APS kit is better.. and has more OEM style fitment. When it comes to FI, I would put the APS and Greddy as my top two choices, but again, I think APS is the better quality kit
.
APS is def a better kit in terms of Quality you cant knock that. However Greddy you can upgrade down the road to the 20G's and for the year ive had my greddy kit i cant say anything bad about it. Plus hitting full boost at 3700 is pretty nice as well
Originally Posted by drsifu
i vote greddy. owning an APS ST kit myself, I have not been happy with the customer service from APS.
Besides APS customer service, the issue with picking the right actuators to run a certain boost appears problematic. I don't know why the APS kit has trouble holding boost, esp. when a good boost controller is in place - never understood that, but it has been reported on more than one occasion.
I would pick the Greddy over the APS as long as an experienced, reputable shop is doing the install to help address the issues Zivman posted above. When I was comparing, I was choosing only between the APS and JWT, thinking the 18G non-water cooled non-ball bearing turbos were less reliable. A year and a half later, the Greddy's appear to be putting down good power and serving their owners well. I would seriously consider it - esp for the price.
I would pick the Greddy over the APS as long as an experienced, reputable shop is doing the install to help address the issues Zivman posted above. When I was comparing, I was choosing only between the APS and JWT, thinking the 18G non-water cooled non-ball bearing turbos were less reliable. A year and a half later, the Greddy's appear to be putting down good power and serving their owners well. I would seriously consider it - esp for the price.
Last edited by rcdash; Feb 10, 2008 at 07:26 PM.
Honestly, the water cooling is something I wish I had, its a neat feature, but at the end of the day I don't think you'll really realize any benefit from it on a day to day basis unless you ride your car really hard.
Originally Posted by rcdash
Besides APS customer service, the issue with picking the right actuators to run a certain boost appears problematic. I don't know why the APS kit has trouble holding boost, esp. when a good boost controller is in place - never understood that, but it has been reported on more than one occasion.
Not an issue, if you are running stock block, the supplied actuators will be fine. on a build, upgrade to the Forge actuators and run the blue springs for moderate boost and the red springs for moderate to high boost.
I would pick the Greddy over the APS as long as an experienced, reputable shop is doing the install to help address the issues Zivman posted above. When I was comparing, I was choosing only between the APS and JWT, thinking the 18G non-water cooled non-ball bearing turbos were less reliable. A year and a half later, the Greddy's appear to be putting down good power and serving their owners well. I would seriously consider it - esp for the price.
Not an issue, if you are running stock block, the supplied actuators will be fine. on a build, upgrade to the Forge actuators and run the blue springs for moderate boost and the red springs for moderate to high boost.
I would pick the Greddy over the APS as long as an experienced, reputable shop is doing the install to help address the issues Zivman posted above. When I was comparing, I was choosing only between the APS and JWT, thinking the 18G non-water cooled non-ball bearing turbos were less reliable. A year and a half later, the Greddy's appear to be putting down good power and serving their owners well. I would seriously consider it - esp for the price.
Originally Posted by Zivman
I know a lot of people like JWT, but honestly, reading through the install instructions, what is included with the kit and the way the piping is ran, I'll pass... the detailed install pics I have seen on the boards also have me saying no way to the JWT.
Originally Posted by JAMEZ
What do you not like about the JWT piping? I didn't like the fact that there was only one air inlet, but I'm not sure how big a difference that makes.
The routing is just silly....too many bends, too many couplers and smaller sections. Just not very effecient and too many potential areas for leaks and blown couplers.
Reference Page 2
You loose your stock washer fluid bottle because of the excessive piping
Reference Page 12
There are other things I dislike about the kit:
FMU
Split Second box
oil pan spacer vs a replacement oil pan
other subjective things:
the look of the intercooler
including a recirc valve vs a BOV
other things about the APS kit I prefer is that they offer downpipes and exhaust systems suited for FI. I know not a huge deal, but still a nice offering. Nice for guys looking for a complete setup. Greddy offers a nice catback for their TT setup, but tapered the incoming end and they don't offer larger down pipes or dumps. I know that other companies have picked up the slack and offer these types of products, but again, nice to have the option
Last edited by Zivman; Feb 10, 2008 at 08:35 PM.