Isn't it all about the size of the return line/fittings and the viscosity of the oil?

The level of a liquid will always equalize. It doesn't matter how far below the oil level the line is tapped. And the blower will always be above the oil level, unless making a very hard right turn??

Think on a grand scale: pouring a cup of water into a pool - there is instant equalization of the water level. This is ideal for the Vortech, and this is what tapping the block/upper oil pan provides. However, now take a large PVC tube and stick it in the pool half way down. Pour water into the tube, and you will see the water level equalize almost instantly. This is because the PVC pipe is big, and water has a very low viscosity. Stick a very long straw into it and do the same, and the levels will equalize at a slower rate.

It's all about how fast the liquid can flow through the tube. So, the larger the return line, and the larger the fittings, the closer we will get to having the same efficiency as tapping up the upper pan. The real question is - how close do we have to get to the ideal situation of tapping the upper pan?

Now, there are some factors that play into this that I simply don't know...

1. The supply line is pressurized, yet the return line is "powered" by gravity. If the supply line is pressurized though, wouldn't that mean the return line is pressurized as well? There's now where else for that pressure to go than back down that line. It simply isn't gravity fed.

2. Pressure within the engine. If there is uniform pressure throughout the oil pan/motor from blow by, it will restrict return flow equally for both tap locations - upper pan or spacer. I would assume the motor relieves this pressure through a PVC valve though (don't even know where it is on the VQ). EDIT: Thinking about this again, this is probably a non-factor even if there is a lot of pressure.

EDIT: What about the oil being cold vs. warm. Won't the oil flow better through the return line when you first start up the car (10W), then start to flow less and less until you get to operating temp (30)? So really, letting your car warm up first won't provide more flow for when you get on it, but it will most likely prolong the life of the blower due to the thicker oil when it goes to work (as long as it's flowing enough).

Sorry, i find this really interesting, especially since I need to make a decision on where to tap with my kit.

 

are you saying that the cold oil will flow better than warm oil?

 

I'm actually asking that. It's such a elementary question, and I thought (and now know) that warm oil flows better than cold oil...but oil becomes more viscous the warmer it gets (to a point) - I'm confused

Btw, I'm pretty far off with my above statement - bad example. I'm thinking more about it now...

 

you can theorize all day about it, but without thorough testing, we will not really know.....

the idea of putting the return line above the Oil level is a good idea and no one is debating that. the debate arises from people not wanting to drill a large hole into the side of their upper oil pan. I know I didn't and so I bought an AAM spacer.

Both TN and Vortech demand that you put the oil return into the upper pan or else your warrantee is voided. By contrast GReddy, APS and PE all provide for the oil return on their turbos to be dumped in the lower oil pan. I have never heard of any bearing issues on Greddy/Mitsubishi turbos, APS/Garrett turbos, or the PE turbos. That was enough reasoning for me to go with the AAM pan spacer....and I haven't had a problem with either my TN ST or my Greddy twins. I know its not a vortech, but you can draw your own conclusions.

 

There are many many people running oil returns into pan spacers with just about every possible turbo/sc kit without problems. At the same time there are people who used spacer returns that experienced turbo or blower failure that MAY OR MAY NOT have been related to the position of the return line.

As stated there is no way to know for sure the pressures or flow rates involved with one method versus another without some sort of testing that no one seems willing or able to do.

At this point it seems based on numbers alone safe to say that you can run your return line back into a spacer or APS style pan. Just make sure you are using proper sized turbo oil supply and return lines.

 

We have yet to hear from any of the shops out there regarding this matter. What do you say, Jeremy, Sam, George, Julian, Sharif, etc.?

Combined, you guys should have more experience than we can gather in a simple poll. Your input would be appreciated.

 

I too have no interest in tapping into my upper oil pan as I may want to be able to go back to stock someday and the risks if I mess up the tap. Ok so in theory where would be the best place to tap the spacer? The front, the side? I figure the front would be the best bet and secondly the front part of the side of the spacer if there isn't room to tap into the front. I assume the oil pick up is at the rear of the spacer and not sure if there would be a siphoning affect by taping near the back of the spacer though. I just figure when you are accelerating and returning to the front of the spacer you would have less resistance as the oil would slosh to the back of the pan. Any input on this?

 

save the hassle and buy the JWT or AAM spacer thats already tapped

 

I didn't know that JWT's came tapped, well too late for me as I have an untapped JWT right here in front of me So now that I have to tap this spacer where would be the best place in reference to my question above?

 

With the Vortech kit, I would just say tap it on the driver's side since thats where the blower is. As for the optimal location, I'm not too sure. I think the rear would be the worst - line will get a bit backed up when accelerating - exactly when you need good oil flow for the s/c.

I also purchased the JWT spacer, but decided to just drill/tap the upper oil pan. If I ever go back to stock, I'll just cap the return fitting on the pan. At least this way I'll have piece of mind.

EDIT: And yeah, you can purchase a pre-tapped version of the JWT spacer - not as easy to find as the AAM though.

 

So im assuming the AAM spacer have a 3/8" NPT hole already? Just curious what will be needed to attach the oil drain line to the spacer if someone could help me out.

Going to help my buddy install a vortech, putting together a list of items to purchase

Thanks,
Aaron

 

^ Hmm...yeah, that's nice of AAM not to include any technical specs on the spacer. I just sent an email to them so we'll see if they get back to me.

That's nice that your buddy's got someone to help him out. The part list doesn't seem to end though

 

cool let me know what you hear from AAM

 

Who are you helping install a Vortech, Aaron?

 

A buddy of mine witha sedan whom I installed sways, strutbar,springs, plenum spacer, cold air intake, testpipes,exhaust for... And now he wants more haha...

You got yours all installed right? Did you tap the oil drain line or use a spacer drewer?

 

I have an AAM spacer that is tapped, but I'm vacillating on using the tap for the return line, or waiting for a "self contained" blower from vortech and use the tap for an oil temp sensor. I can send you pics of the AAM spacer and stuff if you want. . . nothing is installed yet.

 

Just get a greddy sandwich plate to tap the oil temp. There are 2 taps on the aam right? At least the picture I've seen looks like it. Do you know if one of them are a 3/8 npt tap so the vortech supplied barb fits?

When are you starting the install? Seems pretty simplistic to install. Did you get the complete kit or did you get the tuner?

 

IIRC when AAM came out with this spacer they said it could be used with the Vortech return.. After several folks questioned them about this application , they consulted with Vortech and were advised by Vortech against using it as AAM had suggested..AAM removed from there advertising the Vortech application..

 

AAM isn't allowed to advertise something that changes another company's product. In this case using a spacer with a tap is NOT in the Vortech warranty, and will thus make it void. But as the discussion goes, who really knows if it is bad or not.