MMC Racing

iTrader: (5)

Some people like quoting potential crank horsepower I would guess

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

IMHO Both systems , the ATI and the Vortech have their own issues, good and bad.

The fact that the Procharger is self contained and uses its own oil, IMHO is great, and elimintates cross contamination of oil and engine components with the blower..

I loath the idea of drilling and tapping a hole in your upper oil pan like outlined in the Vortech basic system install instructions. Magnetic drill bit or not, your still doing it half a$$ed by drilling and tapping any part of the engine that has to do with the oil system, while it remains on the car. A micron sized shard of metal, can reak havok on vital engine components such as bearings and ringlands. I dont care what Vortech says, your getting metal shaving in your motor,PERIOD.. (unless you use the spacer trick)

Both systems create a great parasitic strain on the crank and motor itself, this is a given, we are unsure how this may effect the harmonics of the engine and the crank as of yet, no one has really done any indepth research on the topic..

Both system have their own issues with the pulleys and drive system, Procharger jumps teeth and eats $100 belts and pulleys often, and the Vortech belt slips after the belt stretches a bit.The more moving parts, the more issues..IMO

The Oil drain system on the Vortech is routed VERY close to the frame of the car, and if not routed just right, will pinch and cause the oil not to drain properly from the unit, causing oil to leak from the blower itself..

The engine management on the Procharger, is abosolutely a joke and a half..Where as the Vortech's engine management is light years ahead of the procharger, but still in itself is a piece of Chit, IMHO. unless your VRT making Voodoo 9000000 whp on a $hitsecond box

The mere fact of forcing more fuel pressure to force more fuel through an already MAXEd out Stock injector, scares the chit out of me..

Just keeping it real and giving my 100% no BS opinion on both systems. The both of them can be made to work VERY well, with proper add ons, but by the time you "do it right" and not "economical" your near APS TT and Powerlabs ST price range anyhow..
Do tons of reading and research, there are plenty of people who have put windows in their blocks from N2o, Superchargers, Single Turbos, and Twin turbo Set ups.. Doing the system right the first time, is the key..

MMC Racing

iTrader: (5)

Amazing how all us Vortech owners have survived over the years with our contaminated engines, maxed out injecters, dangerously routed oil lines, and chitsecond box.. I see a mass demodding effort after your post. Thanks for the heads up.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

I agree with every part of your post but this.

I guess it may be true if the installer were retarded and didn't drop the lower pan before tapping it, but I assume people here are a little smarter than that...

Edit:
Also, this little $2 part and some RTV sealant is all you need to safely plug up a tapped upper pan.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

If you look in the Vortech instructions, they have you tap the "UPPER" oil pan, not the lower. This upper oil pan is impossible to drop without taking 70% of the motor apart..I may be wrong, but I doubt i am..Someone check the Vortec manual ASAP...
Disregard..Im right..Again..


<TABLE cellSpacing=6 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD>6.</TD><TD>Now it is time to tap the oil pan. Here is a picture after it is done. (Be very careful not to drop the special tool that Vortech provides into the oil pan. If it falls into it you will need to remove the whole oil pan to fish it out.) The oil return line connects from the oil pan and runs all the way up to the supercharger head. The tapping of the oil pan must be above the oil level or else the oil cannot drain properly. Make sure the oil return line has no kinks in it for it has to drain freely into the oil pan.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



I have however heard of retarted installers sealing the oil dipstick, in between this upper oil pan and the block. These type of things do happen..

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

Also, how many Vortech owners have taken apart their motors and inspected the bearings and ringlands to date?? Im not saying it is a guaranteed problem, just possible small issues we would rather avoid, and would like to see addressed by a "complete kit" manufacturer.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

If only they came in larger sizes...

Jay'Z

iTrader: (118)

I think my procharger has been great for 25000 miles and no sc internal problems.. I have fixed my belt shredding issue, just waiting on a time where i can get the haltech/vpro and tune.. IMO if you dont get a utec/walbro/440cc with a procharger ur just cheap and dumb..

MMC Racing

iTrader: (5)

It is funny, but your own question supports my point.. There haven't been any because it isn't an issue. And after 4-5 years on the market, I would say your concerns are noted, but not valid if done by a good installer.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

Someone who knows what their talking about..Finally...

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

So does this imply that the proper way to tap an oil pan is "on the car" with the motor sealed? And does this imply that since no one has taken apart their Vortech motor and "SHARED" their findings, to date, that there may not be metal shavings damaging bearings and ringlands??

Has no one with a Vortech blown ther motor ever??

I am not saying the Vortech is not a good kit, so dont get all in a fury cause you have one,and are offended..Im simply pointing out the pro and cons of BOTH SC options on the market discussed in this thread..

i will 100% say, out of the two, the Vortech is safer when comparing kit to kit directly..However, we would call neither kit, flawless..

A good installer would not tap an oil pan on the car, unless told by the customer to do so,but first would warn the customer of any potential hazzards of doing so..

A good manufacturer would have come up with another option other than doing this method of tapping IMHO.

MMC Racing

iTrader: (5)

Julian, you are the obvious expert here, so how many Vortech blown engines have you torn down to come up with your conclusions?

Also, can you explain how a properly installed vortech kit is even in the same neighborhood in cost compared to a APS TT kit?

Frankly, your 100% no BS opinions sound like biased opinions from a shop owner who obviously prefers the lines he carries.

Dr. Venture

iTrader: (19)

I may be wrong but if i were a daily installer of a kit that requires some type of tapping into your engine oil for supply I would use a filter housing adapter kit. Like ones used for oil cooling kits. They should have the extra taps necessary and is probably easier to install, not to mention if you get the oil cooler kit would be the better way to go because cooler oils always a plus. But with extra parts comes more money. But it falls under what would you do if it were YOUR car?

SpoilsofWar

iTrader: (39)

The drilling/tapping is for oil return, not supply. You cant use a sandwich plate for that.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

Do you know what the difference between the upper and lower oil pan is? I do. Perhaps you misread my original post, go back and take a look at it:

There's absolutely no reason why you'd drop the *upper* pan, so I don't have any idea why you'd bring that up unless you did misread what I typed.

You tap the upper pan it while it's on the motor, with the *lower* pan off, and any shavings or debris can simply be cleaned out with a rag. This would be common sense to anyone, especially someone who's worked on a 350z before. I'm assuming you have.

To the OP - I wouldn't worry about tapping the upper pan at all. But, if you really want to, just buy a oil pan spacer and run the return into that.

MMC Racing

iTrader: (5)

If I was drinking something at the time, it would be all over my monitor..

taurran

iTrader: (18)

Still taking shots at vendors and shops in every post/thread you are in, I see. Some things never change...

Perhaps if you understood the theory behind gravity oil return lines you'd understand why Vortech and Turbonetics suggest to do it. They obviously don't know anything about the subject.


Anyway, I'm out of this thread before everyone gets banned again. Have at it.

05Z33

iTrader: (11)

[QUOTE=taurran]I agree with every part of your post but this.

I guess it may be true if the installer were retarded and didn't drop the lower pan before tapping it, but I assume people here are a little smarter than that...

Edit:
Also, this little $2 part and some RTV sealant is all you need to safely plug up a tapped upper pan.


You are correct. My install manual says to remove the lower pan before drilling the upper oil pan. Which I would do even if it didn't say to do so.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

There is a windage tray in the upper oil that does not come off unless the "upper" oil pan is removed. The windage tray may catch some shavings in itself. Such as expert self installer as yourself would realize this. A true proper cleaning of any interally tapped portion of the engine, would require the part to be off the motor and cleaned properly in some sort of part washer. You say otherwise, they your truely novice.

Dont bother replying, Im done debating with you, cause last time we all know what happened.

Julian@MRC

iTrader: (28)

APS,GREDDY,JWT,HKS,PE, and Powerlabs all got it wrong I guess. Your right, Im wrong...I appologize for my ignorance.