problem solved. Canning ProEFI/DC for Haltech/DW 850s

 

, lol you read the internet way too much

 

lol he was talking about the adaptive learning being able to compensate for the different injectors.

 

Please elaborate.

 

DC?

 

RC

 

Aww, makes sense, I should have caught that lol.

I am glad you made the switch to the DW Denso injectors, far better product for about the same cost.

Keep us posted on the results!

-George

 

I will have detailed posts on the build,numbers, and track times. Im hoping to hurt alot of feelings with this car.

 

when you made up your mind on the parts you used you based it on your experience(sams) or from what your read on the boards?
I know you like HKS but you have use it so that why you recommend that.
RC is a big company and their injectors are on many different race teams.
Some people maybe have had problems but many others have run the rc injectors fine for years...I am not knocking DW down btw, cause i really like those injectors too, but they used to be crap till they switched to denso also....
Mark is going with the stock gasket last i heard and L17s....at this rate the more he reads he is going to end up with L19s and HKS gasket because of information he will read here. Again not saying the L19s and HKS gasket are bad or unnecessary but the L17s and stock gasket with the right ems its been holding up fine for the power levels that are his goals.

 

Ok where do I begin...

I purchased my FCon VPro nearly 2 years ago, and guess what it was the best available then besides a MoTeC. I didn't really feel like dropping 10K on EMS at the time, so VPro was my choice. I don't 'have to use it' I can use any EMS I want, I have played with the VPro, the AEM, and the MoTeC - haven't had a chance to play with a Haltech but would like to next. So far the VPro suits my needs just fine, if I need more input/outputs at a latter time then I will upgrade to something like a MoTeC or Haltech depending on how it matures.

Everyone knows RC injectors are inferior to Denso's and just about any other injector. They bore out their injectors to make them bigger, their spray pattern is horrible, and they have a larger failure rate then any other injector.

Don't believe me? Get a set, send them out to get flow tested and analyzed then see what they tell you.

When DW used to sell modified OEM injectors I never recommended them, but the price they sell Denso OEM quality injectors for cannot be beat. So this is not what I have 'read on the internet' but actual fact.

Are you insinuating that Mark is doing something incorrect by further educating himself on the parts and modifications he is going to do on his car? God forbid that! I see nothing wrong with researching all the available options, and then coming to your own decision, more power to him.

I don't know what triggered your post towards me, I can't see anything negative that I have said about you.

I guess this is what happens on this forum when you try to genuinely help other members - you get attacked.

/Done helping people.

-George

 

For the record, no shop I spoke to made any negative comments towards any other shop. I just called up to get input and made sure I wasn't getting information from what they "heard" but with what they've had actual experience with. Im switching to Haltech not based on opinions but soley based on product development. The PRO EFI is something ill most likely end up going with but right now its just not ready for what I need. I want to go to the track and be able to make certain changes like where the launch control is set at and rpm and different small things that I cannot yet do with the PRO EFI. Also, when I first ordered the PRO EFI I was under the impression that by the time it got to me id be able to do certain things and it turned out to be wrong. As far as the injectors, im sorry but im spending ALOT of money(to me at 24yo, 15k+ on mods isn't small change like it might be to some people esp while saving for a house). Ive heard NOTHING but bad things about RC from different members on this board actually having issues with them, and so far ive read NOTHING but good things about DW. Like I said in the beginning, I DO NOT MIND spending extra $$ as long as its going to make the car last longer. 400$ now is better than 4,000 later when the engine blows because an injector locked up.

 

right so you have no experience with haltech but you might switch...great just like anybody would have to do with proefi...(which you didn't mention cause you probably have more friends running it and saying good things right, and thats fine)
so why trip about it over what he reads....
its not like the vendor is trying to screw the customer out, he is getting switched to haltech as his request, intense also is a haltech dealers in case you didn't know.


Intense flow bench tests all the injectors they use before they tune the ems. Jason flow benched the 1200cc injectors before entering the parameters in proefi with the wide body yellow Z, and in marks case this was going to be the case too, this is how they idle fine and have no problems at all. I believe fail safe features are in place just in case too.
YOU ARE VERY AWARE EVERY SHOP HAS THEIR PREFERENCE AND SETUP WITH WHAT THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH. TO YOU IF ITS NOT THE NORM WHAT EVERYBODY LIKES TO FOLLOW ITS A RED FLAG? ...you may think everybody needs to bore to 100mm their bottom ends, some others might not, its preference. SoundPerformance have used in in many cars from different platforms and had no issues.
There is real R&D going on and nothing will be picked with out being first test out before. This isn't like wasnogood posting crap or a tuning at dads garage. There are world respected tunes involved here, just as you personally respect Sams .

thats what i said. and rc are more expensive.

don't confuse things. that same researching used to "teach" forums members, anything more than 600whp was useless, everybody had to run TT kits, 1/2" headstuds are a must(over L19s), everybody has to have sleeves beyond 550whp, eagle rods are only good for mild boost

i said nothing negative about you .
I just quoted you because you were saying something about what you don't know and then the OP switches ems with out even trying it . Not blaming this on you but if you read i said he reads too much.
AS a customer he is being taken care off. His choice of tuner in the area is basically touching 2jzs with proefi not on the VQ yet, which is about to change and they probably would have been ready by the time he was going to get his engine build. IF i recall he wants something now and possibly just use a base tune anyways.

don't get hurt George, i did not attack you , and it wasnt my intention even indirectly. Your help is always appreciate it, but things should be looked from a different perspective.

 

To make it easier, I am just going to number off my responses based on the order of yours.

1) I said I am going to play with the Haltech next, I did not say I am going to switch to it. Before I would make the switch to any EMS I would make sure all the features are working, and working properly, then play around with it a bit, before purchasing. Haltech seems to be doing a good job with after purchase support and I know people I trust who are running it (like rcdash) that are happy with the unit. The ProEFI I have no access to, and don't know anyone unbiased that can give me accurate feedback, so far there are a bunch of people that don't have it saying its the best thing since sliced bread, and one guy who has ran it and his car ran horribly, which someone I trust very much saw in person, so yes I believe it. This has nothing to do with Intense and them being Haltech dealers, I have never had a problem with Intense, nor do I.

2) Are you running RC injectors in your car? No matter what I say/evidence I present, you are going to keep promoting RC injectors, so I will drop this one.

3) So why would you pay more for an inferior injector? That logic is flawed in itself.

4)
a. With time we learn, I would rather have a TT kit over a big ST any day, especially to make 600whp. Only reason to run a big ST is for drag racing, another than that a TT's power curve will own a ST all day in a street car.

b. Call ARP and see if they recommend a L19 stud on a street car, they don't because they become easily contaminated, especially over time and become extremely brittle, we have already seen our first case of a broken L19 recently in another thread(by we I mean our community). Hence ARP2000 material with a larger fastener is the correct approach, unless ARP doesn't know what they are talking about of course, since this is what they would recommend.

c. When you are modifying a brand new platform you don't know its limits, so you have to choose to either put your customer at risk, or overbuild their engine, I see the latter being the correct approach, unless the customer specifies otherwise. I do agree that we have learned with time ON THE FORUMS that we do no need sleeves to achieve over 550rwhp, although reliability is a big factor here that is still undetermined, you can make 1000whp on a stock block, doesn't mean it will last - that is were the difference is. With that said I still recommend a Sleeved engine for big power, and my engine is sleeved if anyone is wondering.

d. I can show you posts from my old account about 3 years ago were I was one of the first to argue that eagle rods are more than sufficient for our builds, again I was trying to help people save money, with a product that was lighter, making it it better, than the Pauters that everyone was purchasing at the time.

5) Saying something I know nothing about? Whether you want to believe it or not, Denso injectors are better than RC injectors, this is fact. Aren't you always raving about OEM quality? Well with injectors that is very important factor and is what Denso injectors are, OEM.

I never discussed anything about EMS with Snyper, but it looks like he made the right choice.

I think YOU need to start looking at things from a different perspective and not what you are being spoon fed.

Respectfully,

-George

 

This is the type of bad information information i talk about. You clearly said you trust injected and rcdash. The fact that you don't have the comfort level with people involved with proefi should not be a reason why you could knock down on the product. Just like it takes you a leap of faith with what rcdash tell you or what injected tells you cause you trust them, i am also had to take a leap of faith with the proefi suported by trusted people in the tuning world with many years of experience... DO YOU SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? BTW i had the 48 pin since my car still had the TN kit. And if you only consider glex the "only guy out there" thats is jsut incorrect. LOL, heck if i recall even Derek has some problems with his haltech when he first got it on, but stuck well with his tuner and sharif got him sorted out and is now real happy with the haltech . Problems happen, and it does take a bit of effort on the customers part too.
I mentioned them that intense is also a haltech dealer just to show you they have respect for Injected in their reserach and also sell the product they support even though they havent tried it, just liek the also deal with HKS. Why dont you tru learning what respect overall then and not jsut respect what your friends also tell you. Again, this isnt sam retards garage shop we are talking about, and not also intense, i am talking of sound performance, titan motor sports, and other dealers that dont share your point of view.

AM I PROMOTING RC INJECTORS?
I am simply saying that they are not bad from the testing intense have done. Sound performance have used it for years in their supras too no problems(are you calling them liers?). IF you or other vendors have bad luck, so be it, its your preference.
I clearly made it a point in this case we are talking about that the RC injectors were flow tested to be perfectly calibrated with the tune to be used with the proefi and get a perfect idle...
DID I SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT DW? no, i like them just as good, i had DW 550cc and now rc 1200cc.

ITS PREFERENCE TOO. your run a TT or ST depending on your goals, budget, experience, application etc., To you all supra owners were stupid to have realized a single turbo setup is the way to go, and don't bring the fact that the VQ is not inline, because it doesnt matter, the powercurves of the ST in a VQ are far superior than those of the 2jZ so its great. BUT Its preference, many of my friends run TT setups too, and its cool if you like it, but not tot he point where you woudl advice that you must run a TT setup its not like you can bring BS that ST dont make 500whp anymore with the TN days. PUt me twin gt35rs(not the littler gt25rs or gt30rs) on a 3.5L vq and another one with a 76S or gt40r boost to reach 850whp and then tell me which one lags more and at what rpm. You will be suprised.


blah blah, do your R&D like injected did... the L19s hold fine to over 1000whp...NOt just making 1/2" studs when you never knew the limits of the L17s or L19s were not even pushed yet.
they still have not failed on any street setup also.
This is just like break in methods too to bring another example. Some gave sharif crap for the way he breaks his engines just on the dyno, where are others PREFER a longer breaking period. I think last weeks performance of philthys engine after his dyno break in is a testament that this method works.

My engine is sleeves too cause i am shooting way beyond 900whp, by my tuners R&D has an engine knocking 1000whp with still stock sleeves.

Correct, so peopel were incorrect to assume bad things on eagle rods and wiseco pistons too cause of they "learned" on the forums.

NO, my point about what you dont know about is refered to you no knowledge at this point of haltech or proefi other than what you are told and what you prefer to believe in. NOt talking about the injectors. I wasnt saying you dont know what you are talking about with the injectors, maybe thats why you feel i was attacking you cause you though i was insulting you by saying you dont know about injectors. I NEVER SAID THAT.

and again you are basing this opinion on....? lol
its his tuner(closest proefi dealer) isnt ready to tune VQs, its not the proefi that isnt ready to run on his car


, are you serious... lets not go there plz...I already told you i said nothing against you nor did i wanted to start anything with you.
I don't know you think i am being spoon feed that you disagree, you will present some facts and others will be presented back. This isn't like having a totally incorrect clearance from a manufacturers recommendation like i agreed with you in the past. This is R&D we are talking about. What is the build list of your engine? its enormous, you probably have every single nice part out there made, but you cannot say thats the way an engine should be build to handle the power or achieve the same performance as what you will have with out having been properly compared against the stock part or having actually tested the limit of the stock part. IF you were to redo your max build with the aps extreme setup you could achieve the same numbers with an engine with much less parts or costlier parts than you previously used. You might not be ready to advice your customers on L17s or L19s, until you truly test them. All you said is what apr told you, not what you figured out.





disclaimer.
i have no time to edit spelling, back to work sorry...
and really george, for the last time, i never attacked you, nor did i try to discredit you. get over it

 

No point to continue this debate, we will never agree, but I do think we can both agree its not worth the time to formulate our responses.

I look forward to the results on your car when it is complete.

By the way everything I post is my opinion, I don't care to sell any parts, or promote anything I don't believe in, there is no benefit/gain in it for me what so ever.

Believe what you will, good luck.