** Update on my Car - Pics, Numbers, Videos **
04-05-2010, 09:12 AM
#641
conservative and aggro is all relative like you say. But since the baseline power typically seen in the 18g kits is no where near your setup, the tendency is to say its aggressive.
Its unfair to say that everyone should have that kinda power as your setup is not common either. Should someone with the same mods be able to mimic your performance, possibly.
I've always wondered what constitutes a completed tune. More or less the word of the tuner thats its completed, I suppose.
But when you read 90% of the threads saying I want reliability first and foremost, its not surprising that many tunes dont realize the full potential of the kit. Plus I'm sure reputable tuners dont wanna pop a motor on their dyno.
When I get my final tune done, it will be run what I brung. I dont have any goals but I didnt buy a 3 bar MAP sensor to run 18 psi. I'll probably need NO2 to even get going, but that was my choice in parts. LOL
Its unfair to say that everyone should have that kinda power as your setup is not common either. Should someone with the same mods be able to mimic your performance, possibly.
I've always wondered what constitutes a completed tune. More or less the word of the tuner thats its completed, I suppose.
But when you read 90% of the threads saying I want reliability first and foremost, its not surprising that many tunes dont realize the full potential of the kit. Plus I'm sure reputable tuners dont wanna pop a motor on their dyno.
When I get my final tune done, it will be run what I brung. I dont have any goals but I didnt buy a 3 bar MAP sensor to run 18 psi. I'll probably need NO2 to even get going, but that was my choice in parts. LOL
04-05-2010, 09:12 AM
#642
kick *** man!
i would be very happy with your pump gas non-meth numbers.
i have the 20gs with the cjm intake manifold, but unfortunately i only have the little jwt s1 cams in there from years ago. i have BC2s but i dont plan on putting them in anytime soon. I wonder if my headwork and intake manifold can get by without the larger cams on the big end, we will see soon.
it will be killer to compare our pump gas non-meth numbers in a couple more weeks... if my old *** clutch even holds for now.
BTW i think you have posted the first dyno graph ive seen to make more power per psi on the 18gs then my 5 year old graph of 573rwhp at 14.5 psi, with SAE correction... but even at STD that wouldnt bring me up to your numbers.
i would be very happy with your pump gas non-meth numbers.
i have the 20gs with the cjm intake manifold, but unfortunately i only have the little jwt s1 cams in there from years ago. i have BC2s but i dont plan on putting them in anytime soon. I wonder if my headwork and intake manifold can get by without the larger cams on the big end, we will see soon.
it will be killer to compare our pump gas non-meth numbers in a couple more weeks... if my old *** clutch even holds for now.
BTW i think you have posted the first dyno graph ive seen to make more power per psi on the 18gs then my 5 year old graph of 573rwhp at 14.5 psi, with SAE correction... but even at STD that wouldnt bring me up to your numbers.
04-05-2010, 09:15 AM
#643
Will 8000rpm abuse all the time wear parts more than 7000rpms? Yes, thats why I hardly do it. Could this motor potentially last a while? Yes, could it blow up tomorrow? Yes.
I have JWT valvetrain in the heads, obviously the block is built and its doing what its doing.
04-05-2010, 09:18 AM
#645
Registered User
8K is prolly max you would ever want to see without doing some other things.
To go beyond that you really need a billet girdle to keep the block in shape....that and great bearings, cams that will get you there, a intake mani that flows, most likely at least some port work in the heads, and a really efficient turbo setup that can maintain at those rpms....
I think the only cars that have really been over 8000rpm is SP's and Injected's cars (the race car, and Hal's street car).
Tom
To go beyond that you really need a billet girdle to keep the block in shape....that and great bearings, cams that will get you there, a intake mani that flows, most likely at least some port work in the heads, and a really efficient turbo setup that can maintain at those rpms....
I think the only cars that have really been over 8000rpm is SP's and Injected's cars (the race car, and Hal's street car).
Tom
04-05-2010, 09:19 AM
#646
conservative and aggro is all relative like you say. But since the baseline power typically seen in the 18g kits is no where near your setup, the tendency is to say its aggressive.
Its unfair to say that everyone should have that kinda power as your setup is not common either. Should someone with the same mods be able to mimic your performance, possibly.
I've always wondered what constitutes a completed tune. More or less the word of the tuner thats its completed, I suppose.
But when you read 90% of the threads saying I want reliability first and foremost, its not surprising that many tunes dont realize the full potential of the kit. Plus I'm sure reputable tuners dont wanna pop a motor on their dyno.
When I get my final tune done, it will be run what I brung. I dont have any goals but I didnt buy a 3 bar MAP sensor to run 18 psi. I'll probably need NO2 to even get going, but that was my choice in parts. LOL
Its unfair to say that everyone should have that kinda power as your setup is not common either. Should someone with the same mods be able to mimic your performance, possibly.
I've always wondered what constitutes a completed tune. More or less the word of the tuner thats its completed, I suppose.
But when you read 90% of the threads saying I want reliability first and foremost, its not surprising that many tunes dont realize the full potential of the kit. Plus I'm sure reputable tuners dont wanna pop a motor on their dyno.
When I get my final tune done, it will be run what I brung. I dont have any goals but I didnt buy a 3 bar MAP sensor to run 18 psi. I'll probably need NO2 to even get going, but that was my choice in parts. LOL
Im waiting for somebody local to step up a fuel system on an APS Extreme and let Ray see what it does before he feels its too far. Or somebody with a Greddy kit could go there and Id bet given the setup it would kick a$$.
FWIW to you-Ray runs an almost identical setup with wayyyy more miles AND power than me and he has had no issues. And his setup was thousands cheaper than mine in terms of parts
04-05-2010, 09:21 AM
#647
Nothing in this setup is safe. Safe = stock
Will 8000rpm abuse all the time wear parts more than 7000rpms? Yes, thats why I hardly do it. Could this motor potentially last a while? Yes, could it blow up tomorrow? Yes.
I have JWT valvetrain in the heads, obviously the block is built and its doing what its doing.
Will 8000rpm abuse all the time wear parts more than 7000rpms? Yes, thats why I hardly do it. Could this motor potentially last a while? Yes, could it blow up tomorrow? Yes.
I have JWT valvetrain in the heads, obviously the block is built and its doing what its doing.
Last edited by Zazz93; 04-05-2010 at 09:26 AM.
04-05-2010, 09:23 AM
#648
kick *** man!
i would be very happy with your pump gas non-meth numbers.
i have the 20gs with the cjm intake manifold, but unfortunately i only have the little jwt s1 cams in there from years ago. i have BC2s but i dont plan on putting them in anytime soon. I wonder if my headwork and intake manifold can get by without the larger cams on the big end, we will see soon.
it will be killer to compare our pump gas non-meth numbers in a couple more weeks... if my old *** clutch even holds for now.
BTW i think you have posted the first dyno graph ive seen to make more power per psi on the 18gs then my 5 year old graph of 573rwhp at 14.5 psi, with SAE correction... but even at STD that wouldnt bring me up to your numbers.
i would be very happy with your pump gas non-meth numbers.
i have the 20gs with the cjm intake manifold, but unfortunately i only have the little jwt s1 cams in there from years ago. i have BC2s but i dont plan on putting them in anytime soon. I wonder if my headwork and intake manifold can get by without the larger cams on the big end, we will see soon.
it will be killer to compare our pump gas non-meth numbers in a couple more weeks... if my old *** clutch even holds for now.
BTW i think you have posted the first dyno graph ive seen to make more power per psi on the 18gs then my 5 year old graph of 573rwhp at 14.5 psi, with SAE correction... but even at STD that wouldnt bring me up to your numbers.
At the end of the day 550whp or 650whp all kicks a$$ on pump on the street.
My car honestly makes enough power to hook in low boost, and more than enough in higher boost (especially TQ) to not hook and give me issues laying it down. To spin into 3rd in the summer and think about more power is stupid IMO for what I use it for.
04-05-2010, 09:43 AM
#650
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makes sense those 18g's should push enough for 700+ acording to their maps. 20g's should throw down some numbers closer to 900. my buddy has one 20g on an eclipse making 440 AWD.maybe the 20g's want more of a 3.5 or 4" exhaust? possibly a taller or more efficient manifold to accomidate the extra air. just simple thermodynamics and chemistry. Cumbustion is a reaction, add more reagents (O2 and Fuel) and shift the rxn to the right making more power.
Last edited by athensgls; 04-05-2010 at 09:45 AM.
04-05-2010, 10:12 AM
#651
makes sense those 18g's should push enough for 700+ acording to their maps. 20g's should throw down some numbers closer to 900. my buddy has one 20g on an eclipse making 440 AWD.maybe the 20g's want more of a 3.5 or 4" exhaust? possibly a taller or more efficient manifold to accomidate the extra air. just simple thermodynamics and chemistry. Cumbustion is a reaction, add more reagents (O2 and Fuel) and shift the rxn to the right making more power.
Sorry for OT.
04-05-2010, 10:12 AM
#652
The past couple of years has had me interested much more in other hobbies than my Z. Seeing my car yesterday left my mind thinking of whats next?
Perhaps next year I'll do something different...I'll run this setup till it breaks.
I do hope to get to the track again, but knowing full well what can happen there I almost dont wanna do it early in the season and potentially ruin the summer with the car. Go broke or go home.... or I'll be breaking and going home lol...
Perhaps next year I'll do something different...I'll run this setup till it breaks.
I do hope to get to the track again, but knowing full well what can happen there I almost dont wanna do it early in the season and potentially ruin the summer with the car. Go broke or go home.... or I'll be breaking and going home lol...
04-05-2010, 10:53 AM
#653
I know how you feel, but considering that you and I would get Squat for our cars if the motor isn't working makes me want to preserve it as much as possible. I plan to run it at the track this year as much as I can, but I doubt I will even make it to high boost. Gotta start low and work my way up. This should hopefully extend the life of the car somewhat. Or at least minimize the damage that can occur from racing.
Hey Berto are you running the pro-axles or what?
Hey Berto are you running the pro-axles or what?
04-05-2010, 11:42 AM
#654
I run the DSS Level 5's
The cotter pin fell out after 2 passes on one of them and I had to rpelace them at the track before returning home. Had em welded in, no issues since.
Even with preloading with 680ft/lbs off the line and an ignorant launch something interesting is going to happen
The cotter pin fell out after 2 passes on one of them and I had to rpelace them at the track before returning home. Had em welded in, no issues since.
Even with preloading with 680ft/lbs off the line and an ignorant launch something interesting is going to happen
04-05-2010, 12:12 PM
#656
No I havent even considered it.
My right foot has fun controlling traction.
WOT traction control, WOT boxes to help people shift, now most sports cars have paddle shifters + auto clutches, whats next? Letting other people drive your car?
Regarding the ProEFI Ray has one in his car now IIRC, he did tell me it was an awesome unit and did everything he wanted it to.
My right foot has fun controlling traction.
WOT traction control, WOT boxes to help people shift, now most sports cars have paddle shifters + auto clutches, whats next? Letting other people drive your car?
Regarding the ProEFI Ray has one in his car now IIRC, he did tell me it was an awesome unit and did everything he wanted it to.
04-05-2010, 03:33 PM
#658
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Hey Berto, Im almost near done with my build and have been really considerding bringing the car to Ray and let him work some magic. Where exactly is he located at?
04-05-2010, 03:34 PM
#659
Now you see why I chuckle and comment on all these 20G numbers and different setups people try to promote as being better than 18G's.
Obviously the little turbines lead to the TQ curve up top, especially at high boost, but overall the powerband is kick a$$ IMO, look at low boost TQ curve its over 500ft/lbs from 3500-6000rpm's.....regarding the parts like I said nothing special, and it can dish out a$$ whoopings without any "I'll race you tomorrow so I can mix some race fuel" BS...
http://<span style="color:Red">www.p...ars.com</span> - I owe it all to Ray, as the car just wasnt "awake" immediately after the rebuild.
We'll see what the summer brings!
Obviously the little turbines lead to the TQ curve up top, especially at high boost, but overall the powerband is kick a$$ IMO, look at low boost TQ curve its over 500ft/lbs from 3500-6000rpm's.....regarding the parts like I said nothing special, and it can dish out a$$ whoopings without any "I'll race you tomorrow so I can mix some race fuel" BS...
http://<span style="color:Red">www.p...ars.com</span> - I owe it all to Ray, as the car just wasnt "awake" immediately after the rebuild.
We'll see what the summer brings!