Built motor issues with piston oil squarter???
11-07-2008, 03:44 PM
#1
Built motor issues with piston oil squarter???
What could be the cause for the piston to break off the 3 oil squirters in the block??? I found one in the oil pan and not sure where the other pieces went. Could it still be inside the block somewhere? What are my options at this pt???
Pistons have a little nick on them (just needs resurfacing) and rods arent bent.
The freakin builder, BZM won't take responsibility for the mistakes and keeps telling me it's my installer/tuner's fault.
What am I suppose to do now???
Pistons have a little nick on them (just needs resurfacing) and rods arent bent.
The freakin builder, BZM won't take responsibility for the mistakes and keeps telling me it's my installer/tuner's fault.
What am I suppose to do now???
Last edited by Mr_pharmD; 11-07-2008 at 05:37 PM.
11-07-2008, 04:19 PM
#3
this has indeed been known a long time.....but there should not have been any of the old impropper rods still on anyones shelf
here is a thread from 2004
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...ease-read.html
here is a thread from 2004
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...ease-read.html
11-07-2008, 05:36 PM
#7
BZM wont even return my calls now. Supposely Todd Pickman is no long building motors and feels it's not his fault.
I see the link for the Arias pistons but I have wiseco pistons so do all aftermarket pistons have this issue? Am I suppose to ask the machine shop to take 1/8 more clearance off to not hit the squirters???
I see the link for the Arias pistons but I have wiseco pistons so do all aftermarket pistons have this issue? Am I suppose to ask the machine shop to take 1/8 more clearance off to not hit the squirters???
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11-07-2008, 05:48 PM
#9
BZM wont even return my calls now. Supposely Todd Pickman is no long building motors and feels it's not his fault.
I see the link for the Arias pistons but I have wiseco pistons so do all aftermarket pistons have this issue? Am I suppose to ask the machine shop to take 1/8 more clearance off to not hit the squirters???
I see the link for the Arias pistons but I have wiseco pistons so do all aftermarket pistons have this issue? Am I suppose to ask the machine shop to take 1/8 more clearance off to not hit the squirters???
there is no excuse for this as I am sure at some point they were aware of the issues. someone built the engine and screwed up...if they want to blame it on the piston maker that's on them. I would sue BZM over it.
11-07-2008, 10:13 PM
#11
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Pistons were installed backwards. Did it break off both banks or just one? Due to the location of the oil squirters the pistons have to be installed a certain way to clear the squirters (provided they are cut correctly). If the were installed 180 degrees from the correct way, then it will break off the squirters.
Last edited by thawk408; 11-07-2008 at 10:19 PM.
11-07-2008, 11:09 PM
#12
thawk is correct. if they are properly cut to clearance the squirters than they need to be facing the correct direction, that also applies to the valve reliefs as they are often cut to provide more or less clearance depending on if they are for the intake or exhaust valves which are significantly difference in size.
if the pistons were not machined to clear the squirters its not a big deal... that is, if you catch it before the engine is running in the car... which is not the case here i take it. its no big deal for any machine shop to cut the clearances and rebalance the pistons, however it requires an entire rebuild. you could grind them in the block if you remove the engine and upper oil pan... but this is at your own risk and no one will tell you its the right way to do its.... its one of those things you would do to your own car but never someone elses.
hell, with all the problems with oil squirter clearance in this motor over the history of VQ35 builds, you would think that oil squirters were new as of 2003... but they are not, not at all... and the piston manufacturers look really retarded for not considering them from the get-go. as for a builder not noticing... well, while they should have learned to check... 20 sets of good pistons later it wouldnt surprise me that they took it for granted and didnt notice if they were sent a set that doesnt clear... its not exactly OBVIOUS as the natural position of the skirt would barely hit it anyway. on my first engine build way back in the day we didnt even notice right away but luckily we did catch it before the heads were put on and it wasnt a big deal to cut the reliefs, rebalance, and assemble.
if the pistons were not machined to clear the squirters its not a big deal... that is, if you catch it before the engine is running in the car... which is not the case here i take it. its no big deal for any machine shop to cut the clearances and rebalance the pistons, however it requires an entire rebuild. you could grind them in the block if you remove the engine and upper oil pan... but this is at your own risk and no one will tell you its the right way to do its.... its one of those things you would do to your own car but never someone elses.
hell, with all the problems with oil squirter clearance in this motor over the history of VQ35 builds, you would think that oil squirters were new as of 2003... but they are not, not at all... and the piston manufacturers look really retarded for not considering them from the get-go. as for a builder not noticing... well, while they should have learned to check... 20 sets of good pistons later it wouldnt surprise me that they took it for granted and didnt notice if they were sent a set that doesnt clear... its not exactly OBVIOUS as the natural position of the skirt would barely hit it anyway. on my first engine build way back in the day we didnt even notice right away but luckily we did catch it before the heads were put on and it wasnt a big deal to cut the reliefs, rebalance, and assemble.
Last edited by phunk; 11-07-2008 at 11:12 PM.
11-08-2008, 06:18 AM
#13
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While we can blame this on the piston manufactures, it really comes down to the
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
11-08-2008, 06:54 AM
#14
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While we can blame this on the piston manufactures, it really comes down to the
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
related to OP I believe GTM has some squirters that have additional clearance, I know it would be a pain in the **** to do it in the car but check with a shop to see if they would replace them, GTM says it can be done, I really have not looked to see if there is enough clearance to get at the squirters while trying to get past the main caps, crank and around the rods.
Last edited by westpak; 11-08-2008 at 07:07 AM.
11-08-2008, 07:54 AM
#15
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While we can blame this on the piston manufactures, it really comes down to the
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
engine builder WHO should, as part of the blueprint process, go over every detail
including all tolerances which includes CLEARANCES between rotating parts. Alot
of GOOD builders actually build an engine twice,,,once to assemble most of a shortblock
and check everything, disassemble and clean everything once more, then off to the
final build. Same goes for a longblock! Blueprinting an engine is NOT the same thing as
assembling one.
11-08-2008, 07:59 AM
#16
This is what Todd wrote, "I sympathize for your situation so I am trying to help u out- I can not assume liability or responsibility in this matter as there are several variables involved and we deliver a product that is clearanced, machined, assembled and ready for operation.... After startup we can not be held accountable for other mishaps that can occur with a high performance forced inducted engine. I realize you have theorized that all of the squirters broke upon startup, but we check these clearances after Machining, upon assembly, to identify such an issue before a problem occurs. Sorry to hear about your issues u are having and let me know if you'd like me to order those parts for you."
If he says he checked these clearances how would the squirters get broken???
If he says he checked these clearances how would the squirters get broken???
11-08-2008, 08:03 AM
#17
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Why would it matter if the car is FI'ed or not. its not like more air pushes the pistons down more. He knows he fuked up but he doesnt wanna admit it or pay for it.
11-08-2008, 08:29 AM
#18
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it does matter, if this happened soon after install then yes the builder is obviously at fault but if this happened after some miles then you need to look into more.
11-08-2008, 09:22 AM
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Unless the pistons/rods got trashed due to a bad tune, then yes maybe that could of caused the oil squirters to brake off if they had excessive play. That is HIGHLY unlikely tho. Id put my money on improper piston install. Did you buy a longblock from BZM?