RudeG_v2.0

iTrader: (1)

XKR

iTrader: (1)

Funny Jorge

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

You have to understand... at GT1 and GT2 levels they aren't the same as road cars. The bodies are barely the same. You have to understand that class regulations have much more to do with competitiveness of a car than the marquee. Read up on it I suggest, and you will be able to answer your own questions without looking like a hater and flaming Ferrari for no reason. It took me literally 30 seconds to google 'Ferrari GT2' and come up with the following article:

That right there is why Ferrari are the kings. You are wrong that the GT2 car was not successful and IIRC the 550M GT1 car that raced a few years ago did fairly well with zero factory support. Don't get me wrong, the Porsche GT cars and parts packages from the factory are fantastic, which is why they comprise such a % of the fields they race in. Porsche is my favorite of course (GT3 RSR!) but you cannot deny this is an exceptionally beautiful car:



In regards to their road cars... the data speaks for itself, as do the editorial reviews that explain the human component. They are simply fantastic cars to drive and they have the performance to put that at the top model after model.

Their pedigree also comes from YEARS of involvement in all levels of motor racing, and countless championships. They are one of the oldest that has had continual involvement and success. Obviously I think your criticism is unfounded, especially considering your stated lack of understanding of the underlying situation. It was the phrasing of the question, and your follow ups that irked me, not the question itself. The car could well be a dog and I would admit that and laugh along with everyone else of course.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

^^^

Very informative. Yes, there is much more history I have glanced over.

I posted the results from the last GT2 race, but here are the results from the previous race:

1. Bergmeister/Long, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 108
2. O'Connell/Magnussen, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 108
3. Mueller/Milner, BMW E92 M3, 107
4. Gavin/Beretta, Chevrolet Corvette C6.R, 107
5. Melo/Kaffer, Ferrari 430 GT, 107
6. Henzler/Ragginger, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 107
7. Farnbacher/James, Panoz Esperante GTLM, 107
8. Hand/Auberlen, BMW E92 M3, 106
9. Law/Neiman, Porsche 911 GT3 RSR, 104
10. Robertson/Robertson/Murry, Ford GT MK 7, 102

Again, Ferrari was #5. In the top 4 were a 911, two Vettes and an M3.

I'm not a Ferrari hater. They are gorgeous!!! I think the Pininfarina designs are some of the most beutiful cars made. I feel the same way about the G35 Coupe (and no, I'm not contending that the stock G35 is anywhere near the performance of a Ferrari, and you see to many G35's on the road that they could never, never, never have anywhere near the status, not to mention the weight issue).

OK, the Ferrari is exclusive. What I don't quite understand is what makes it so much better than other exclusive vehicles to warrant so much praise given the price/performance ratio. In the latest Car and Driver article, they compared it to an Audi half it's cost. If they have to compare it to a vehicle half its cost, and that vehicle comes relatively close to the Ferrari's performance, how good is the price/performance ratio?

I do understand that there are not a lot of other cars in its price range. But if it is so good, instead of comparing it to an Audi, why not compare it to a Mclaren, a Saleen, a Pagani Zonda, etc.??? Then how will it fare? Why are GTRs, Corvettes and Vipers competing for the fastest lap times around the Nurburgring for a production vehicle, while nothing from Ferrari is competing??? Can it be that, because of their god-like status, they don't need to compete? Meanwhile, Nissan, Chevy and Chrysler are coming up to steel their performance glory... Also, there is the upcoming Lexus LF-A... Will the Ferrari 458 be able to compete on the track??? We will see.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

Regardless of everything I have said and all my questions, that car is extremely, extremely gorgeous.

I'm just expecting Ferrari to step up to the plate as far as performance goes and live up to their reputation. For the price they are asking, they need to show up at the Nurburgring and just make it happen. Maybe the new 458 will do it. It may not come through in my previous posts, but I hope they succeed. If they don't, then I will continue to question. (Meanwhile, I'll keep bulding my measly G35 ).

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

could be rule changes from last year, or that the ferrari is getting old, I don't know off hand what changed. And Saleens did race in GT1 for a while, but saleen is no more. Pagani does race in Europe as do Lamborghini and McLaren. Teams generally don't win year over year forever... Even Audi loses with the R10 sometimes. You have to look at it in perspective.

And why don't they compare the F430 to a McLaren? Do you really have to ask that? You compare the ENZO to the McLaren.

Again, you seem to be narrowly focusing on specific examples (like that one magazine article, as opposed to the countless ones comparing it to lambos and porsches and lotuses etc) and then generalizing that out far too broadly.

I really don't know what to say honestly, but I don't think your point has any merit, you are simply expressing an opinion. I'll stop derailing this thread now.

T_K

iTrader: (5)

Are you aware of the weight penalty system in FIA GT?

GT1
1st = 40kg
2nd = 30kg
3rd = 20kg
4th = -20kg
5th = -30kg
6th = -40kg
and so on...

GT2 is half the weights of GT1. Max weight for GT1 is 100kg, and 50kg for GT2. If a car already carrying its maximum weight still wins 1st, it gets a higher maximum of 150kg for GT1 and 75kg for GT2.

The weight penalty system pretty much dissolves vehicle superiority; not entirely, but is very effective. The rest is up to the team and driver, and how deep their pockets are, or even better if they are factory backed.

mysterymann

iTrader: (4)

The Ferrari is Number 2 in the Championship right behind the Flying Lizard Porsche

http://www.americanlemans.com/results/2009/2009_GT2.pdf

T_K

iTrader: (5)

+1. Forgot to mention the point system for the overall win.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I'll track the next few races and see how they do.

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

I forgot about the weight penalty system d'oh. like JGTC.

I have to start watching again. The R8 is supposedly going to racing soon too I think.

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

What does all this have anything to do with XKR's build?

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

he gave the OK to continue.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

This weekend GT racing will be held at Mosport International Raceyway in Bowmanville, Ont. It will be televised tomorrow (Sunday) at 3:00 P.M. EDT on SPEED (if you get that channel).

Motormouth

iTrader: (44)

I do not have 'cable' but thanks

mysterymann

iTrader: (4)

Formula 1 is at spa tommorrow

T_K

iTrader: (5)

Was going back over the last few pages of the thread, and just wanted to make a slight clarification. The diffuser itself doesn't generate an "extra" downward force. It's not like an aerofoil. It just subtracts the lift being generated under the car.

It's nature is to make a more efficient use of the high pressure on the top of the body. Unlike an aerofoil, that actually generates a downward force on the attached body, is partly the reason a diffuser can be so efficient as to increase the overall net pressure acting on the body with very little drag.

The main diffuser channel itself acts best when "sealed" to the ground. In the absence of any other channel to draw in air from, it will accelerate the air from the only path it can, which is preferably from the front of the car. Most racing series don't use the "sealed skirt" method anymore due to regulation strictly prohibiting it. The work around to this rule, is to make certain shapes protruding into the airstream i.e. vortex generators or canards, ahead of the side skirt area. This is far more complex to design, only a very specific type of flow pattern, can act to help seal the sides. It's not just sticking a canard at the corner off the bumper, it has to be a certain flow pattern for this to work.

It really isn't that hard to design something that will work using some good basic design philosophy. The hard part is when theres boundaries placed on the design. Trying to remain looking stock, is going to make this far more difficult.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

^^^

The diffuser is the backside of a venturi that we are forming with the underbody. It is the throat of the venturi where the downforce is generated, which is positioned before the diffuser. Down force is generated when the velocity of the airflow through the throat is greater than the velocity of the air flow over the top of the car.

If you go way, way back in this thread, I explained that the diffuser acts to reduce the velocity of the air that was accelerated through the throat. Ideally, the velocity of the air exiting the diffuser will match that of the air flow over the top of the car, ignoring a bunch of other issues. While slowing the air flow, it is desirable to maintain control over the air flow patterns, which is what the diffuser also does. In doing so, better control over the total airflow under the car is maintained, thus optimizing the velocity of the airflow through the throat, and maximizing downforce.

Of course, nothing under the car is as simple as a basic venturi tube, so alot has to take place to fully exploit Bernoulli's principles.

T_K

iTrader: (5)

How stock does this thing have to look is my question.

XKR

iTrader: (1)

Nothing more than you see in the pic....

BTW Terry....Ferrari came second today behind the Corvette...The vette had to push the Ferrari almost off the track to steal first place