XKR Super G... Going for Mach 1
09-09-2009, 10:23 AM
#1001
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Last edited by XKR; 09-09-2009 at 10:25 AM.
09-09-2009, 10:39 AM
#1002
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I will say, the sound of the open wastegates is pretty unique. Mine doesn't sound anything like I had ever heard before. Its a sound that no camcorder will ever capture eaither, you just gotta hear it in person.
tom
tom
09-09-2009, 10:50 AM
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Thanks
I am going to fly out to FP when he is running it....I will see.... Plus...we have to see if it runs better with the MSD
Thanks JTran..
Thanks JTran..
Last edited by XKR; 09-09-2009 at 10:52 AM.
09-09-2009, 12:37 PM
#1009
^^^
Ask custommuffler if anyone has gotten to 1000 whp with completely stock VQ35DE heads??? If so, I would like to see what kind of boost they were running.
I'd also like to see a VQ35 motor with stock heads break the 1/4 mi. in under 10 seconds... IP list their Z as having IP Stage 3 heads Extreme Port.
But I guess custommuffler knows more about VQ motors than them.
Ask custommuffler if anyone has gotten to 1000 whp with completely stock VQ35DE heads??? If so, I would like to see what kind of boost they were running.
I'd also like to see a VQ35 motor with stock heads break the 1/4 mi. in under 10 seconds... IP list their Z as having IP Stage 3 heads Extreme Port.
But I guess custommuffler knows more about VQ motors than them.
09-09-2009, 12:40 PM
#1010
09-09-2009, 12:48 PM
#1011
Registered User
I'm tryin I'm tryin........still learning how to drive lol
Not the heads that are gonna hold you back.....its the intake mani that will.
Tom
^^^
Ask custommuffler if anyone has gotten to 1000 whp with completely stock VQ35DE heads??? If so, I would like to see what kind of boost they were running.
I'd also like to see a VQ35 motor with stock heads break the 1/4 mi. in under 10 seconds... IP list their Z as having IP Stage 3 heads Extreme Port.
But I guess custommuffler knows more about VQ motors than them.
Ask custommuffler if anyone has gotten to 1000 whp with completely stock VQ35DE heads??? If so, I would like to see what kind of boost they were running.
I'd also like to see a VQ35 motor with stock heads break the 1/4 mi. in under 10 seconds... IP list their Z as having IP Stage 3 heads Extreme Port.
But I guess custommuffler knows more about VQ motors than them.
Not the heads that are gonna hold you back.....its the intake mani that will.
Tom
09-09-2009, 03:24 PM
#1013
Of course, Tom has stock cams too, and just getting bigger cams will help. It would be very interesting to see how much more hp Tom would gain at 30 psi merely by changing to bigger cams.
With head work, cams and, as Tom noted, the right intake manifold, I think you could get to 1000 whp on somewhere around 30 psi, maybe a bit more. Mike's build will be a good test case. He has Cosworth heads and the JWT C8 cam. We'll see what kind of boost it takes him to get to 1000 rwhp. EDIT: I just remembered he has a 4.0L short block, so this is not a fair comparision.
When you are bulding a motor, in the overall scheme of things, getting some basic head work done is not that expensive. If you are never going to go for big hp, then no, it's not needed. If you might want to go for big hp someday, why not just do it to make getting there easier, especially while you already have the motor apart?
I had match porting and a 3-angle valve job done on my heads. It cost $500. It definitely made it easier to get power out of the motor. Roger at Japtrix will attest to that.
EDIT: I just checked out Hal's build. He only made slightly more hp that Tom with only 2 psi less boost. Hal's was tested on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and Tom's was tested on a Mustang Dyno. I'm not sure about the correlation of these two dyno's, but if they are close, then the gains from head work are nowhere near what I had asserted. In other words, not much bang for the buck, even in high hp builds. So I might be WRONG (in which case Mike did waste alot of money on those Cosworth heads
).EDIT EDIT: Hal's boost was around 6% or 7% lower than Tom's boost. I'm assuming Hal has bigger cams too. So the gains from the head work may not be that significant. OK, I'm debating with myself now. I'll stop.
Right now would be good for someone who has played around with VQ heads to chime in.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 09-09-2009 at 04:07 PM.
09-09-2009, 04:16 PM
#1014
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Size of turbos, and housings mean a lot on power too..
My turbos don't flow very stellar at lower rpms (they are pretty average at 15psi)....but they really like to flow up to 38psi pretty easy (54mm wheels).....not all turbos can do that.
Stock cams are definately killin my power....however i do make a ton of tq down low still.....
Who knows, we're all crazy ****'s in the end anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait to see what mike's does.
Tom
My turbos don't flow very stellar at lower rpms (they are pretty average at 15psi)....but they really like to flow up to 38psi pretty easy (54mm wheels).....not all turbos can do that.
Stock cams are definately killin my power....however i do make a ton of tq down low still.....
Who knows, we're all crazy ****'s in the end anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't wait to see what mike's does.
Tom
They probably can make it, but will need a heck of alot of boost. Tom listed in FI's TOP 25 List that he made 769 rwhp with stock heads, but he used 30 psi to get there. To get all of the way to 1000 rwhp is going to take quite a bit more boost.
Of course, Tom has stock cams too, and just getting bigger cams will help. It would be very interesting to see how much more hp Tom would gain at 30 psi merely by changing to bigger cams.
With head work, cams and, as Tom noted, the right intake manifold, I think you could get to 1000 whp on somewhere around 30 psi, maybe a bit more. Mike's build will be a good test case. He has Cosworth heads and the JWT C8 cam. We'll see what kind of boost it takes him to get to 1000 rwhp. EDIT: I just remembered he has a 4.0L short block, so this is not a fair comparision.
When you are bulding a motor, in the overall scheme of things, getting some basic head work done is not that expensive. If you are never going to go for big hp, then no, it's not needed. If you might want to go for big hp someday, why not just do it to make getting there easier, especially while you already have the motor apart?
I had match porting and a 3-angle valve job done on my heads. It cost $500. It definitely made it easier to get power out of the motor. Roger at Japtrix will attest to that.
EDIT: I just checked out Hal's build. He only made slightly more hp that Tom with only 2 psi less boost. Hal's was tested on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and Tom's was tested on a Mustang Dyno. I'm not sure about the correlation of these two dyno's, but if they are close, then the gains from head work are nowhere near what I had asserted. In other words, not much bang for the buck, even in high hp builds. So I might be WRONG (in which case Mike did waste alot of money on those Cosworth heads).
EDIT EDIT: Hal's boost was around 6% or 7% lower than Tom's boost. I'm assuming Hal has bigger cams too. So the gains from the head work may not be that significant. OK, I'm debating with myself now. I'll stop.
Right now would be good for someone who has played around with VQ heads to chime in.
Of course, Tom has stock cams too, and just getting bigger cams will help. It would be very interesting to see how much more hp Tom would gain at 30 psi merely by changing to bigger cams.
With head work, cams and, as Tom noted, the right intake manifold, I think you could get to 1000 whp on somewhere around 30 psi, maybe a bit more. Mike's build will be a good test case. He has Cosworth heads and the JWT C8 cam. We'll see what kind of boost it takes him to get to 1000 rwhp. EDIT: I just remembered he has a 4.0L short block, so this is not a fair comparision.
When you are bulding a motor, in the overall scheme of things, getting some basic head work done is not that expensive. If you are never going to go for big hp, then no, it's not needed. If you might want to go for big hp someday, why not just do it to make getting there easier, especially while you already have the motor apart?
I had match porting and a 3-angle valve job done on my heads. It cost $500. It definitely made it easier to get power out of the motor. Roger at Japtrix will attest to that.
EDIT: I just checked out Hal's build. He only made slightly more hp that Tom with only 2 psi less boost. Hal's was tested on a Dyno Dynamics dyno and Tom's was tested on a Mustang Dyno. I'm not sure about the correlation of these two dyno's, but if they are close, then the gains from head work are nowhere near what I had asserted. In other words, not much bang for the buck, even in high hp builds. So I might be WRONG (in which case Mike did waste alot of money on those Cosworth heads
).EDIT EDIT: Hal's boost was around 6% or 7% lower than Tom's boost. I'm assuming Hal has bigger cams too. So the gains from the head work may not be that significant. OK, I'm debating with myself now. I'll stop.
Right now would be good for someone who has played around with VQ heads to chime in.
09-09-2009, 04:48 PM
#1015
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The MadScientist and Luie raced at ZdayZ 2008 when Luie still had his car. Both MadScientist and Luie had about the same setup.....Luie 850bb......MS 20G.....
MS has Cosworth heads.....Luie Stock heads.
This was a high speed roll....From what I was told.....MS pulled on Luie....WHY???
From what I was told...The only difference between both cars was the Cosworth Heads.
MS has Cosworth heads.....Luie Stock heads.
This was a high speed roll....From what I was told.....MS pulled on Luie....WHY???
From what I was told...The only difference between both cars was the Cosworth Heads.
09-09-2009, 05:28 PM
#1016
Registered User
HEY HEY HEY!!!!!
You didn't say nothin' bout power delivery.....you just want peak power lol......
1000rwhp with 200rpm usable powerband right????????? lol
jk mike
tom
You didn't say nothin' bout power delivery.....you just want peak power lol......
1000rwhp with 200rpm usable powerband right????????? lol
jk mike
tom
The MadScientist and Luie raced at ZdayZ 2008 when Luie still had his car. Both MadScientist and Luie had about the same setup.....Luie 850bb......MS 20G.....
MS has Cosworth heads.....Luie Stock heads.
This was a high speed roll....From what I was told.....MS pulled on Luie....WHY???
From what I was told...The only difference between both cars was the Cosworth Heads.
MS has Cosworth heads.....Luie Stock heads.
This was a high speed roll....From what I was told.....MS pulled on Luie....WHY???
From what I was told...The only difference between both cars was the Cosworth Heads.
09-09-2009, 05:35 PM
#1017
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^^^
yess i mean... less displacement, less heads flow.... yet 2jz can put 1000whp.... why on earth wouldnt the vq be able to do it?(of course it needs solid bottom end)... you are forgetting about some of the fun with boost, jsut pick a bigger turbo or more psi until you reach your goal....find a happy medium between the 2
now ovbiously there are other factors such as raisong the rpms , usable powerband, etc, for which you requiere full head work, but peak numbers would be achievable either way.
yess i mean... less displacement, less heads flow.... yet 2jz can put 1000whp.... why on earth wouldnt the vq be able to do it?(of course it needs solid bottom end)... you are forgetting about some of the fun with boost, jsut pick a bigger turbo or more psi until you reach your goal....find a happy medium between the 2
now ovbiously there are other factors such as raisong the rpms , usable powerband, etc, for which you requiere full head work, but peak numbers would be achievable either way.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 09-09-2009 at 05:37 PM.
09-09-2009, 05:43 PM
#1018
The biggest difference between Tom;s SP build and every other log manifold build is the turbine housings used. Tom has a true T3 or T4 while everyone else uses a T25 for fitment reasons.
One very respected tuner keeps telling me that the reason you dont see mid 20+ psi tunes on log manifold/T25 housing setups, is that the backpressure gets soo much that you are entering headlift without detonation territory. You CAN NOT just keep raising the boost to reach your power goals. If you could, why all the weak dynos with gt30 series turbos? A pair of those could easily run in the 800s on pump gas and well into the 900's on race. Yet no one has come close to that. There are tons of dyno sheets of single gt3071 and gt3076s making 400+ easily on other platforms that can use the larger housings
Trying to push 1000 whp thru a T25 housings is going to be inefficient to say the least.
Thats why the highest most strung out dyno using a log manifold/T25 is barely over 800 whp (and even GTMs extreme APS kit was on a 4.24L car)
Hal made more power with less boost because he is running a much larger t4 turbine housing. I'd bet an extremely different amount of backpressure.
Sure nice heads are good, but fitting T3 or T4 housing (ie frame notching) is a much better place to spend money on and way more gains can probably be had there
One very respected tuner keeps telling me that the reason you dont see mid 20+ psi tunes on log manifold/T25 housing setups, is that the backpressure gets soo much that you are entering headlift without detonation territory. You CAN NOT just keep raising the boost to reach your power goals. If you could, why all the weak dynos with gt30 series turbos? A pair of those could easily run in the 800s on pump gas and well into the 900's on race. Yet no one has come close to that. There are tons of dyno sheets of single gt3071 and gt3076s making 400+ easily on other platforms that can use the larger housings
Trying to push 1000 whp thru a T25 housings is going to be inefficient to say the least.
Thats why the highest most strung out dyno using a log manifold/T25 is barely over 800 whp (and even GTMs extreme APS kit was on a 4.24L car)
Hal made more power with less boost because he is running a much larger t4 turbine housing. I'd bet an extremely different amount of backpressure.
Sure nice heads are good, but fitting T3 or T4 housing (ie frame notching) is a much better place to spend money on and way more gains can probably be had there
Last edited by str8dum1; 09-09-2009 at 05:47 PM.
09-09-2009, 05:47 PM
#1019
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Dont get me wrong fellows.....I am not saying you have to have head work to make big power......Someone was saying that headwork is a waste of money......and my attempt is to show that its not
09-09-2009, 05:54 PM
#1020
^^^
yess i mean... less displacement, less heads flow.... yet 2jz can put 1000whp.... why on earth wouldnt the vq be able to do it?(of course it needs solid bottom end)... you are forgetting about some of the fun with boost, jsut pick a bigger turbo or more psi until you reach your goal....find a happy medium between the 2
now ovbiously there are other factors such as raisong the rpms , usable powerband, etc, for which you requiere full head work, but peak numbers would be achievable either way.
yess i mean... less displacement, less heads flow.... yet 2jz can put 1000whp.... why on earth wouldnt the vq be able to do it?(of course it needs solid bottom end)... you are forgetting about some of the fun with boost, jsut pick a bigger turbo or more psi until you reach your goal....find a happy medium between the 2
now ovbiously there are other factors such as raisong the rpms , usable powerband, etc, for which you requiere full head work, but peak numbers would be achievable either way.
In my last build, it wasn't until 4th gear that I could use all of the mid-band torque. This time around, I'm trying to balance it out a little better. We'll see how it turns out. Ideally, I'll have a little less torque at 4k, but have much more torque from 5k rpm up to 7.5k rpm. Specifically, I was pushing almost 600 ft-lbs at around 4k rpm. If I come in around 575 ft-lbs there, and then get up to 700 ft-lbs at 5.5k rpm, and hold it until 7.5k rpm, that would be ideal.
We'll see how the new combination performs - 4.0L displacement/JWT C8 cams/GTM Stg 3 (.64 A/R) turbos. The smaller A/R may hold back torque at the high rpms, but a higher A/R may sacrifice too much mid-band torque.
Last edited by ttg35fort; 09-09-2009 at 06:00 PM.