Turbonetics vs. Vortech need your opionions!
IMO the turbonetics kit's and most turbo kit's biggest issue is the lack of a quality EMS that has a true "3d" map solution to tune rpms, throttle, and boost/gear. They exist, but you're going to pay some nice money for them.
Most ems's will only offer "2d" maps so tuners opt to tune rpms and throttle and then choose to tune the car in either 4th or 5th gear starting from low rpms every time up to redline because that's the safest compromise they can do given what they have to work with. They can't tune each gear and start from a variety of rpms to account for the variable turbo response.
IMO this is one reason why superchargers are a little more consistent or possibly more reliable because it eliminates all those variables since boost is pretty much 100% consistent every time, regardless of gear or starting rpms since it's physically tied to the engine.
In the end, they're totally different setups that'll drive very different from each other and have their own sets of issues.
Most ems's will only offer "2d" maps so tuners opt to tune rpms and throttle and then choose to tune the car in either 4th or 5th gear starting from low rpms every time up to redline because that's the safest compromise they can do given what they have to work with. They can't tune each gear and start from a variety of rpms to account for the variable turbo response.
IMO this is one reason why superchargers are a little more consistent or possibly more reliable because it eliminates all those variables since boost is pretty much 100% consistent every time, regardless of gear or starting rpms since it's physically tied to the engine.
In the end, they're totally different setups that'll drive very different from each other and have their own sets of issues.
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 6, 2009 at 10:41 AM.
I almost bought a Vortec myself, but the power potential and ability to easily upgrade was a huge difference for me. A good tune will help take care of the stress issues, but once again totally different animals.
My friend had a 389whp turnonetics kit on his g35 stock block for a year no issues, also keep in mind that the turbonetics kit is a reflash, not a piggyback or standalone, finally traded it for his dream car, but really depends what you ultimately want and what the goals are. Longevity of a block depends really on how you drive, take it easy and play when you want to and you'l be ok, floor it every light and it won't make a difference what kit you have, you'll blow the bottom end then.
My friend had a 389whp turnonetics kit on his g35 stock block for a year no issues, also keep in mind that the turbonetics kit is a reflash, not a piggyback or standalone, finally traded it for his dream car, but really depends what you ultimately want and what the goals are. Longevity of a block depends really on how you drive, take it easy and play when you want to and you'l be ok, floor it every light and it won't make a difference what kit you have, you'll blow the bottom end then.
I almost bought a Vortec myself, but the power potential and ability to easily upgrade was a huge difference for me. A good tune will help take care of the stress issues, but once again totally different animals.
My friend had a 389whp turnonetics kit on his g35 stock block for a year no issues, also keep in mind that the turbonetics kit is a reflash, not a piggyback or standalone, finally traded it for his dream car, but really depends what you ultimately want and what the goals are. Longevity of a block depends really on how you drive, take it easy and play when you want to and you'l be ok, floor it every light and it won't make a difference what kit you have, you'll blow the bottom end then.
My friend had a 389whp turnonetics kit on his g35 stock block for a year no issues, also keep in mind that the turbonetics kit is a reflash, not a piggyback or standalone, finally traded it for his dream car, but really depends what you ultimately want and what the goals are. Longevity of a block depends really on how you drive, take it easy and play when you want to and you'l be ok, floor it every light and it won't make a difference what kit you have, you'll blow the bottom end then.
only thing i got from this was that ur friend was stupid enough to run the turbonetics reflash and not get a piggy back to tune it, the t-netics kit yes comes with a reflash but everyone who knows the kit would never run the reflash and would opt for a ems that makes things safe
^^ haha, thats like saying the full vortech kits dont work either bc they dont use a piggy back. or all the technosquare/osirus tunes are junk bc they are reflashes.
the TN reflash is just fine if everything is stock.
the TN reflash is just fine if everything is stock.
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From: San Diego
No with a supercharger a bypass valve vents boost under part throttle. As you press the gas pedal down that bypass valve shuts and the boost goes into the engine. A supercharger delivers boost in a very linear progressive way. This is safer for your engine, specifically the connecting rods which are the VQ's weakness. The torque that a turbo delivers will make the car feel faster and will have more "surge" in the lower rpms. While this is fun it does cause more stress on your motor in the long run. This is not to say that you will blow your motor if you turbo it though. Many people have done the Turbonetics kit and have had great luck with it. I was going to go turbo and decided to go with a supercharger mainly because I got a great deal on a used one and felt that the install was easier. I can say I wish I had more low end power but the power on the top end is very nice. I also want to autoX my car and a supercharger's consistent powerband will make my car easier to control going around a tight track. As for drag racing I believe a supercharger will hang with an =whp turbo since it is all high end power anyway. It really boils down to what you want. If I could do it all over again I might of done the Powerlab kit just because it comes complete and includes a utec. Even if you go with a turbonetics kit, make sure you at least buy a utec just to keep things safe. Here is a video of a 0-120 run with my Vortech. This is an example of what an average supercharged Z would be like. I just have the 3.12 pulley and the stock exhaust (at the time of this vid) but I have changed out my exhaust from stock and added a 2.87 pulley recently. I am getting a re-tune next week so I'm hoping to be around 400whp on a dynojet.
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when you say a good deal, can you tell (or pm) what would it was including install? i think a new vortech v2 installed goes about 7 g, but it will also include the vortech sc as well as engine 3 year warranty... not sure if that is paying too much. otoh, you have the peace of mind for 3 years
2 questions about your vid:
1. are you really getting 0-60 for less than 5 secs ( i think i got 4.5 on my watch)
2. also what's happening from 1-2 gear? it seems that your rpm drops from 7 to 6k, is that right? not a whole lot-a room. nice shift work
thanks again for sharing the vid and explanations
////ur basically saying its ok to bolt on a kit and not go get tuned, cause as far as the t-netics kit goes thats the bare minimum of tuning from that reflash and its for a bone stock car with the kit bolted on...i wouldn't even bolt the vortech kit on and run the vortech tune on there without getting tuned on a stock car and i don't see why anyone else would either for safety of their engine at least
Last edited by tylerxfire; Apr 6, 2009 at 01:00 PM.
very interesting, and nice vid.
when you say a good deal, can you tell (or pm) what would it was including install? i think a new vortech v2 installed goes about 7 g, but it will also include the vortech sc as well as engine 3 year warranty... not sure if that is paying too much. otoh, you have the peace of mind for 3 years
2 questions about your vid:
1. are you really getting 0-60 for less than 5 secs ( i think i got 4.5 on my watch)
2. also what's happening from 1-2 gear? it seems that your rpm drops from 7 to 6k, is that right? not a whole lot-a room. nice shift work
thanks again for sharing the vid and explanations
when you say a good deal, can you tell (or pm) what would it was including install? i think a new vortech v2 installed goes about 7 g, but it will also include the vortech sc as well as engine 3 year warranty... not sure if that is paying too much. otoh, you have the peace of mind for 3 years
2 questions about your vid:
1. are you really getting 0-60 for less than 5 secs ( i think i got 4.5 on my watch)
2. also what's happening from 1-2 gear? it seems that your rpm drops from 7 to 6k, is that right? not a whole lot-a room. nice shift work
thanks again for sharing the vid and explanations
1. Yea 4.5 is about right, maybe a little faster if I could get some traction.
2. Wheel spin is why the 1st-2nd gear seems so short but it still goes from 40-60 in about or less than a second so its hooking up one way or another. Thanks and yea fast/good shifting can be the difference more so than having more power. I will update where I am as for the 1/4 mile as soon as I can get to the track after my re-tune but I would guess it's about 12.8 @ 111 right now. Hopefully with my new setup I can be in the mid 12's @ 115 but who knows its all a hopeful guess until I get some actual numbers.
Last edited by 350Z400rwhp; Apr 6, 2009 at 01:00 PM.
ya without any wheelspin, it would really get moving. imagine that with 3.9 or 4.08 gears with some traction. you'd kill at any stop light type acceleration! 
what did you use to keep the camera steady?
what did you use to keep the camera steady?
1. Yea 4.5 is about right, maybe a little faster if I could get some traction.
2. Wheel spin is why the 1st-2nd gear seems so short but it still goes from 40-60 in about or less than a second so its hooking up one way or another. Thanks and yea fast/good shifting can be the difference more so than having more power. I will update where I am as for the 1/4 mile as soon as I can get to the track after my re-tune but I would guess it's about 12.8 @ 111 right now. Hopefully with my new setup I can be in the mid 12's @ 115 but who knows its all a hopeful guess until I get some actual numbers.
2. Wheel spin is why the 1st-2nd gear seems so short but it still goes from 40-60 in about or less than a second so its hooking up one way or another. Thanks and yea fast/good shifting can be the difference more so than having more power. I will update where I am as for the 1/4 mile as soon as I can get to the track after my re-tune but I would guess it's about 12.8 @ 111 right now. Hopefully with my new setup I can be in the mid 12's @ 115 but who knows its all a hopeful guess until I get some actual numbers.
It has nothing to do with GTM or any shop or any made up conspiracy theory like that so just stop right there. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone or anything other than fate. The only thing GTM had to do with it was me buying an engine and Osiris software from them.
one of my middle rods bent slightly and was making a light thumping noise. Also my cats were completely destroyed. Long story short, the crank had a rough spot when you turned the shortblock by hand. There's no way to absolutely conclude the exact cause with the million factors there are
There wasn't any big event that happened when I was driving. I didn't go and do anything crazy. There wasn't an explosion or a boom. I didn't even know anything happened until my local mechanic (Jon at Goodspeed) started pointing the sound out to me.
I never expected my stock engine to last forever.
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 6, 2009 at 02:02 PM.
Just a camera mount that suction cupped to my windshield. I couldn't imagine with a 3.9 gear and FI. You would need some really aggressive tires to hook up.
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i think i can get a used vortech v2 for about 3k. tempted, but i think i can get a brand new one for a bit over 5 k. what do you guys think? spend the extra 2 k and have the peace of mind with the 3 k extended warranty?
also, it seems that even with a vortech i have to tune it. the shop (vortech authorized dealer) said i don't need to tune, but if you guys say otherwise, then i'll prob listen to what you guys say.
also, it seems that even with a vortech i have to tune it. the shop (vortech authorized dealer) said i don't need to tune, but if you guys say otherwise, then i'll prob listen to what you guys say.
when my car was sitting for a year because I didn't have the cash on hand to fix the engine (due to the economy, wife's medical bills, etc). I tended to not want to even think about it so I dropped off the radar for awhile because it's depressing to try to be involved in the community when your car is dead and you know you're not going to have the cash to fix it for a long time. You might have noticed I hardly posted in the FI section last year compared to normal and that's because I hardly read it
It has nothing to do with GTM or any shop or any made up conspiracy theory like that so just stop right there. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone or anything other than fate. The only thing GTM had to do with it was me buying an engine and Osiris software from them.
one of my middle rods bent slightly and was making a light thumping noise. Also my cats were completely destroyed. Long story short, the crank had a rough spot when you turned the shortblock by hand. There's no way to absolutely conclude the exact cause with the million factors there are
There wasn't any big event that happened when I was driving. I didn't go and do anything crazy. There wasn't an explosion or a boom. I didn't even know anything happened until my local mechanic (Jon at Goodspeed) started pointing the sound out to me.
I never expected my stock engine to last forever.
It has nothing to do with GTM or any shop or any made up conspiracy theory like that so just stop right there. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone or anything other than fate. The only thing GTM had to do with it was me buying an engine and Osiris software from them.
one of my middle rods bent slightly and was making a light thumping noise. Also my cats were completely destroyed. Long story short, the crank had a rough spot when you turned the shortblock by hand. There's no way to absolutely conclude the exact cause with the million factors there are
There wasn't any big event that happened when I was driving. I didn't go and do anything crazy. There wasn't an explosion or a boom. I didn't even know anything happened until my local mechanic (Jon at Goodspeed) started pointing the sound out to me.
I never expected my stock engine to last forever.
I asked about GTM because several people have PMed saying they had asked them to do it .
Are you going with strickly Orisis to tune your car now ? Ditching the HKS EMS ? Ive been reading a little on the Orisis and its ability now to tune boosted cars up to 1000hp with a biggeer MAF sensor . Looking to hear more about it .
i think i can get a used vortech v2 for about 3k. tempted, but i think i can get a brand new one for a bit over 5 k. what do you guys think? spend the extra 2 k and have the peace of mind with the 3 k extended warranty?
also, it seems that even with a vortech i have to tune it. the shop (vortech authorized dealer) said i don't need to tune, but if you guys say otherwise, then i'll prob listen to what you guys say.
also, it seems that even with a vortech i have to tune it. the shop (vortech authorized dealer) said i don't need to tune, but if you guys say otherwise, then i'll prob listen to what you guys say.
Sorry to hear about your wifes troubles , hope she is doing better .
I asked about GTM because several people have PMed saying they had asked them to do it.
Are you going with strickly Orisis to tune your car now ? Ditching the HKS EMS ? Ive been reading a little on the Orisis and its ability now to tune boosted cars up to 1000hp with a biggeer MAF sensor . Looking to hear more about it .
I asked about GTM because several people have PMed saying they had asked them to do it.
Are you going with strickly Orisis to tune your car now ? Ditching the HKS EMS ? Ive been reading a little on the Orisis and its ability now to tune boosted cars up to 1000hp with a biggeer MAF sensor . Looking to hear more about it .
I'm sticking with the Fcon for the main tune. I just got the midrange Osiris software that doesn't have fuel or timing map capability. Mainly I got the osiris because I need to pass emissions and my clutch gives me a PO300 multi-misfire code and the Osiris can disable codes. Also the Osiris gives you the ability to adjust the cam phasing. I've heard the Osiris Uprev is really nice though and I'd recommend it to anyone over a utec, emanage, etc
The reasons I'm sticking with the fcon instead of going with the full out osiris uprev are:
- its 16x16 vs the fcons 32x32 maps
- it costs $300 or 50% more than the regular osiris
- I'll have to buy all sorts of sensors and possibly a new MAF housing to make it work properly
- the labor cost to install those sensors and remove my HKS sensors
- I don't feel like trying to sell stuff, and get pennies on the dollar
- I know the fcon works well and is reliable. I'm tired of spending my own money to basically be beta tester
- I've heard the uprev like any EMS, has its own set of issues and bugs, though I'm not exactly sure what they are.
- I'm going to have Sam tune my engine anyway, so the fcon being locked isn't a big issue
Last edited by sentry65; Apr 6, 2009 at 04:11 PM.
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From: San Diego
One thing to think about with the 3 year warranty is you will void it if you put the 2.87 pulley on it. I'm not sure about the 3.12 but I can say you won't be satisfied with the 3.33 and if Vortech only warranties the unit with the 3.33 there is no point in spending the extra money. A second thing to consider is that there are a few options to fix a blower unit if it does go bad (928 motorsports impeller upgrade, different bearing upgrades) and this can be fixed/upgraded for around $700 so even with a rebuild you are still saving money. I figure I saved at least $2500-$3000 and if my unit does ever go, I'm looking at less that $1000 to rebuild it. I would roll the dice on a used vortech so long as you get all of the parts needed to install it from whoever you buy it from. Plus you can buy a tuner kit and not waste the money on the fuel pump booster thing (FMU) and the weak SS box and buy injectors, a walboro fuel pump and a utec instead.
interesting, thanks. any worries about your engine going? but as you said though, with the properly tuned car, the engine should be ok.
can i ask how much you spent on just the install? the shop will probably charge about $1800 to install alone, plus charge extra per hour to "hunt down / fix" any missing stuff.