Yet another Vortech Blown Thread .... possible solution inside
06-10-2009, 06:10 PM
#43
I was just trying to state that it would be more cost effective for most people to get the blower checked out before just replacing the bearings with better ones, because of a bearing failure... kinda like when you spin a rod bearing, you check out the rod and crank before just replacing...
The problem that he may run into now is... in a bearing failure if its the cage that fails, the cage breaks into pieces. Now what is the shaft doing with that new found play at 40k rpms?... it can cause an oval, or a series of other issues... so at minimum anyone should have Vortech look at the bearing housing and entire blower first before just replacing those bearings, if there is even the slightest oval the bearing can spin in place... could just be a matter of time
So out of the four bearings you only replaced the two smaller ones and left the two biggers alone?
Last edited by stealthz; 06-10-2009 at 06:49 PM.
06-11-2009, 04:58 AM
#44
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I replaced all 4 bearings. I inspected all parts along with power plant mechs and engineers. Also the blower was at vortech 3 times and they never replaced the housing.
Btw the larger cog side bearings are cheap - paid 5.50 each.
Guys... It's a piece of mechanical equipment, not a space shuttle
Btw the larger cog side bearings are cheap - paid 5.50 each.
Guys... It's a piece of mechanical equipment, not a space shuttle
06-11-2009, 11:31 AM
#45
I replaced all 4 bearings. I inspected all parts along with power plant mechs and engineers. Also the blower was at vortech 3 times and they never replaced the housing.
Btw the larger cog side bearings are cheap - paid 5.50 each.
Guys... It's a piece of mechanical equipment, not a space shuttle
Btw the larger cog side bearings are cheap - paid 5.50 each.
Guys... It's a piece of mechanical equipment, not a space shuttle
I do have some questions... Is it the same bearing going bad for you each time? how tight do you run your cog belt? how long does your blower last each time before another bearing fails? and is it under track use when it fails each time? sorry I'm just curious
Last edited by stealthz; 06-11-2009 at 11:45 AM.
06-11-2009, 01:25 PM
#46
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the larger bearing was only $5 really? hmm that doesn't seem right but hey if you got the same bearing cool... and yea it's not a space shuttle but there is only a lil margin for error since the blade is balanced and your operating at high speeds... I'm just trying to warn others to cover there bases before they go ripping into the charger...
I do have some questions... Is it the same bearing going bad for you each time? how tight do you run your cog belt? how long does your blower last each time before another bearing fails? and is it under track use when it fails each time? sorry I'm just curious
I do have some questions... Is it the same bearing going bad for you each time? how tight do you run your cog belt? how long does your blower last each time before another bearing fails? and is it under track use when it fails each time? sorry I'm just curious
oh yeah blower only lasts about 2k miles. I currently have ~700 miles on my rebuild. 1300 more to go I better use them wisely...LOL
06-11-2009, 03:11 PM
#48
This is the 1st time I have looked at it myself. Vortech would not tell me exactly what failed. In this instance it was the high speed impeller bearing, so the cog belt wouldn't matter - it wasn't too tight anyway I can move it 1/4 inch in each direction. Car has never seen the track, it's going tomorrow night though oh yeah blower only lasts about 2k miles.
I currently have ~700 miles on my rebuild. 1300 more to go I better use them wisely...LOL
oh yeah blower only lasts about 2k miles. I currently have ~700 miles on my rebuild. 1300 more to go I better use them wisely...LOL
Last edited by stealthz; 06-11-2009 at 03:15 PM.
06-14-2009, 04:15 PM
#49
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couple hundred more miles and 4 1/4 mile passes and still good I ran it hard at the track, although I had serious traction issues so my times sucked!
I ran it hard at the track, although I had serious traction issues so my times sucked!
06-14-2009, 04:28 PM
#50
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So, I started going over the bearing failure in my head again and everything that was discussed in the previous posts and want to go back to the basic facts that the Nachi 7003C bearings are only rated for 42,000 RPM in oil with a peak operating temperature of 248 Degrees F (limitation of the polymer based cage) as stated in their specifications.
With these specifications I was at or above the limits of Speed and Heat. If this is the case all 350z SC trim Vortechs are over spinning. I was probably seeing higher temperatures than most because I would always be spinning the bearings faster than normal because of the 34/28 T cog setup. With that said, my failures are probably due to a combination of both. I have addressed both of these issues by increasing the specifications of the bearings to 65,000 RPM and 482 Degree F (PEEK cage, polymer reinforced with carbon fiber) as well as adding a 25 Row oil cooler.
Here is the documentation...how can it be debated? The bearings aren't rated for the speed the blowers are running, even at stock. In addition I find it hard, based on what I have seen to keep the temperature in spec without an external oil cooler.
Supporting Documentation:
With these specifications I was at or above the limits of Speed and Heat. If this is the case all 350z SC trim Vortechs are over spinning. I was probably seeing higher temperatures than most because I would always be spinning the bearings faster than normal because of the 34/28 T cog setup. With that said, my failures are probably due to a combination of both. I have addressed both of these issues by increasing the specifications of the bearings to 65,000 RPM and 482 Degree F (PEEK cage, polymer reinforced with carbon fiber) as well as adding a 25 Row oil cooler.
Here is the documentation...how can it be debated? The bearings aren't rated for the speed the blowers are running, even at stock. In addition I find it hard, based on what I have seen to keep the temperature in spec without an external oil cooler.
Supporting Documentation:
06-15-2009, 08:02 AM
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And by the way if you look at the other 7003 non C based their max oil speed is 22,000. So, I'm going to have to call BS on what the Nachi guy told me over the phone for 61k on those 7003c bearings.
06-15-2009, 08:25 AM
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LOL I believe I figured it out. The guy on the phone was looking at the wrong bearing. The 7000C is rated for 61000 RPM. I bet he was looking at that when he told me the specs. HAHA it's a totally different size bearing than the 7003C.
http://www.nachiengineering.com/bear....aspx?typeID=6
http://www.nachiengineering.com/bear....aspx?typeID=6
06-15-2009, 08:51 AM
#56
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interesting.
those oil temps look a little high to me based on what mine runs. i'm in indiana and it's about mid 80's outside. I haven't installed my oil cooler yet but i'm running just under 200 on the temps for oil.
Where is your oil temp sensor? where are you located?
Did the lines check out and look clear? That oil injection nozzle has some small ports nad looks like it would clog easily.
and hell ya on the shell rotella! I run that in every race motor (motorcycles) that i build. It's the greatest. My uncle's also run that in their semi's on the farm that have almost a million miles on them. It's great stuff!
those oil temps look a little high to me based on what mine runs. i'm in indiana and it's about mid 80's outside. I haven't installed my oil cooler yet but i'm running just under 200 on the temps for oil.
Where is your oil temp sensor? where are you located?
Did the lines check out and look clear? That oil injection nozzle has some small ports nad looks like it would clog easily.
and hell ya on the shell rotella! I run that in every race motor (motorcycles) that i build. It's the greatest. My uncle's also run that in their semi's on the farm that have almost a million miles on them. It's great stuff!
06-15-2009, 09:04 AM
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interesting.
those oil temps look a little high to me based on what mine runs. i'm in indiana and it's about mid 80's outside. I haven't installed my oil cooler yet but i'm running just under 200 on the temps for oil.
Where is your oil temp sensor? where are you located?
Did the lines check out and look clear? That oil injection nozzle has some small ports nad looks like it would clog easily.
and hell ya on the shell rotella! I run that in every race motor (motorcycles) that i build. It's the greatest. My uncle's also run that in their semi's on the farm that have almost a million miles on them. It's great stuff!
those oil temps look a little high to me based on what mine runs. i'm in indiana and it's about mid 80's outside. I haven't installed my oil cooler yet but i'm running just under 200 on the temps for oil.
Where is your oil temp sensor? where are you located?
Did the lines check out and look clear? That oil injection nozzle has some small ports nad looks like it would clog easily.
and hell ya on the shell rotella! I run that in every race motor (motorcycles) that i build. It's the greatest. My uncle's also run that in their semi's on the farm that have almost a million miles on them. It's great stuff!
are you on a rev-up motor?
06-15-2009, 09:17 AM
#58
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you could probably throw a local shop some cash to do it for you in one of their presses.
ah, i figured you were in a hot area by the way you spoke.
I'm non-rev up. That might make a difference. I'm running a 3.12 pulley with stock cogs. I also have headers, test pipes, full exhaust with everything up in the engine bay heat wrapped. The motor flows pretty good so i would imagine it stays cool for that reason.
I'm non-rev up. That might make a difference. I'm running a 3.12 pulley with stock cogs. I also have headers, test pipes, full exhaust with everything up in the engine bay heat wrapped. The motor flows pretty good so i would imagine it stays cool for that reason.
06-15-2009, 09:17 AM
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As far as oil temps go keep in mind that I am running a rev-up to 7100 RPM with the 34/28 pulley setup. This means I am constantly spinning the blower faster at all RPMs. I can see the direct correlation between the speed the blower spins and my oil temps.
An example...hwy driving in 5th gear I will see 220 on a consistent basis. If I get on it and push it I will hit 240 for a couple minutes. If I spend most of my time in 6th gear my temp will drop to around 195-205.
BTW I peaked at 220 at the track. I did 2 runs in 20 mins and shut the car down while waiting.
so, I think the rev-up + pulley combo is why I am seeing higher temps than most. I think the average of 220 in 90+ degree weather is ok, but I would rather see 200. I've been thinking about adding a small cooler to S/C feed line. I believe JET MECH has a setup like this.
An example...hwy driving in 5th gear I will see 220 on a consistent basis. If I get on it and push it I will hit 240 for a couple minutes. If I spend most of my time in 6th gear my temp will drop to around 195-205.
BTW I peaked at 220 at the track. I did 2 runs in 20 mins and shut the car down while waiting.
so, I think the rev-up + pulley combo is why I am seeing higher temps than most. I think the average of 220 in 90+ degree weather is ok, but I would rather see 200. I've been thinking about adding a small cooler to S/C feed line. I believe JET MECH has a setup like this.