Turbo Kit by Peter Farrell
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From: Northern Virginia
Guys, I see a lot of you are taking offense to the statement of "Civic Market". There is nothing wrong in this, the meaning of that is that the aftermarket prices are very low, compared to other cars. That's what I believe he, and I both meant by this term. He's afraid that his quality product will be in a price range that Z owners are not willing to spend. Tell a Civic owner a stage kit is $6,000 and they will laugh their ***** off..that's what his, and my point are.
Please don't take offense to that, it just simple means that he is afraid of prices of aftermarket products dropping rapidly, and that his kit will sell got $6-8k, and Z owners will not be willing to spend that kind of money.
Please don't take offense to that, it just simple means that he is afraid of prices of aftermarket products dropping rapidly, and that his kit will sell got $6-8k, and Z owners will not be willing to spend that kind of money.
Originally posted by Ricky
Guys, I see a lot of you are taking offense to the statement of "Civic Market". There is nothing wrong in this, the meaning of that is that the aftermarket prices are very low, compared to other cars. That's what I believe he, and I both meant by this term. He's afraid that his quality product will be in a price range that Z owners are not willing to spend. Tell a Civic owner a stage kit is $6,000 and they will laugh their ***** off..that's what his, and my point are.
Please don't take offense to that, it just simple means that he is afraid of prices of aftermarket products dropping rapidly, and that his kit will sell got $6-8k, and Z owners will not be willing to spend that kind of money.
Guys, I see a lot of you are taking offense to the statement of "Civic Market". There is nothing wrong in this, the meaning of that is that the aftermarket prices are very low, compared to other cars. That's what I believe he, and I both meant by this term. He's afraid that his quality product will be in a price range that Z owners are not willing to spend. Tell a Civic owner a stage kit is $6,000 and they will laugh their ***** off..that's what his, and my point are.
Please don't take offense to that, it just simple means that he is afraid of prices of aftermarket products dropping rapidly, and that his kit will sell got $6-8k, and Z owners will not be willing to spend that kind of money.
If the price is right, more people will buy and allow you to make your money in numbers, not off one sale here and there. I think that's one of the biggest problems with the 350 so far, all the companies are trying to make their R&D money back on every single sale.....if it was reasonably priced with good gains in the first place they would have people lined up out the door to buy.
--wes
Ricky
Your right. why would I pay a man 6-8k for a turbo kit (single or twin) thats going to be build on greddys, PE, and top secrets R&D. the power output will be about the same and I don't see on what you could do different then theres. It should be a hell of alot cheaper. I would rather pay greddy 7k and know that they will be around for as long as I own my car then pay PF who will be gone in the next 5 years max when i will need parts or the pipes start to crack. As for the market turning inexpensive for us that is a good thing considering there is a 100% mark up on everything. Parts should not be this much on anything. Plus from what I have seen rx-7 and lexus is 300 parts come out a lot less then the Z. I don't mean to be rude but he is smoking crack if ask me. Most companies like him are building them for 5k or less, due to the fact that they didn't put in as much R&D as for say Greddy. He will even use hks's exhaust manifolds I bet. I know they have one for a TT or single turbo set up for this car.
Your right. why would I pay a man 6-8k for a turbo kit (single or twin) thats going to be build on greddys, PE, and top secrets R&D. the power output will be about the same and I don't see on what you could do different then theres. It should be a hell of alot cheaper. I would rather pay greddy 7k and know that they will be around for as long as I own my car then pay PF who will be gone in the next 5 years max when i will need parts or the pipes start to crack. As for the market turning inexpensive for us that is a good thing considering there is a 100% mark up on everything. Parts should not be this much on anything. Plus from what I have seen rx-7 and lexus is 300 parts come out a lot less then the Z. I don't mean to be rude but he is smoking crack if ask me. Most companies like him are building them for 5k or less, due to the fact that they didn't put in as much R&D as for say Greddy. He will even use hks's exhaust manifolds I bet. I know they have one for a TT or single turbo set up for this car.
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From: Central Jersey
I also agree that anyone interested in this kit do a search over at www.rx7club.com/forum
I have never dealt with PF, but part of the reason I haven't is due to what is written over on the RX-7 boards. I don't pass judgement but check it out.
I would not be opposed to a quality kit for 7K, but Ricky, how does PF plan to add quality over the other FI offerings? Charging 8K just to maintain his image is a stupid proposition if he doesn't plan to attach any value to that price tag.
I have never dealt with PF, but part of the reason I haven't is due to what is written over on the RX-7 boards. I don't pass judgement but check it out.
I would not be opposed to a quality kit for 7K, but Ricky, how does PF plan to add quality over the other FI offerings? Charging 8K just to maintain his image is a stupid proposition if he doesn't plan to attach any value to that price tag.
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From: In my car, Arkansas
Well, Ricky, price is a touchy subject to the consumer, better off not even bringing it up, lol. Of course you did, heh. Everyone knows that our kits are too high, it is just common sense looking at what is out there for other cars. Of course, the consumer will hope the prices will become "Civic like" and the manufactor hopes not. But if PF wants to make money as a manufactor without having to do R&D, a lower price will be their best weapon.
Now for the kit, what will be included??? Piggyback or standalone?? Intercooler?? What the heck are we talking about for the price?? Be nice to know, lol.
Now for the kit, what will be included??? Piggyback or standalone?? Intercooler?? What the heck are we talking about for the price?? Be nice to know, lol.
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From: Savannah GA
Originally posted by Dom
I think a V6 should have 2 turbos not 1. The single turbo would have to be big. Big turbo - big lag. 2 turbos is the way to go. Look at Greddy. The TD05H 18G is a great turbo. We built several of TD04s, TD05s and TD06s in 3KGts, 300zxs, MR-2 Turbos and the Eclipse GSX. Also I have a Greddy T78 in my RX-7 and it's sweet. Greddy is doing all right and I don't see a reason to look into an other kit. I'll track my car and I'm sure Greddy's kit will do well!
As for Peter Farrell - look into RX-7 forums.
I also heard that his IS300 kit isn't working at all. Don't know. Not my party.
I think a V6 should have 2 turbos not 1. The single turbo would have to be big. Big turbo - big lag. 2 turbos is the way to go. Look at Greddy. The TD05H 18G is a great turbo. We built several of TD04s, TD05s and TD06s in 3KGts, 300zxs, MR-2 Turbos and the Eclipse GSX. Also I have a Greddy T78 in my RX-7 and it's sweet. Greddy is doing all right and I don't see a reason to look into an other kit. I'll track my car and I'm sure Greddy's kit will do well!
As for Peter Farrell - look into RX-7 forums.
I also heard that his IS300 kit isn't working at all. Don't know. Not my party.
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From: Amherst, NY
Originally posted by Drag Limited
Yeah you must have never ridden in a buik Grand National if you think single turbo's are not for V6's. I rode in one and video taped as we walked on a viper GTS. Single turbo's are great.
Yeah you must have never ridden in a buik Grand National if you think single turbo's are not for V6's. I rode in one and video taped as we walked on a viper GTS. Single turbo's are great.
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From: houston, texas
Last edited by jcv; Oct 3, 2003 at 10:37 AM.
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From: Plano, TX
It's just not as strong hence the twin turbo setup. some of you need to get this through your thick head!
I've said it on almost every related thread but I'll say it again. First one to come out with a quality kit for a reasonable price will be selling one to me.
I'd love to hear some more details on the fuel management.
The idea of a single kit makes me happy.
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From: Berlin,Germany
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drag Limited
[B]Yeah you must have never ridden in a buik Grand National if you think single turbo's are not for V6's.
Have never seen neither ridden that car.
And I don't say that single Turbos are not for V6s. It depends what you need. I need a quick spooling turbo with a straight performance line. I want to race my car on the Nuerburgring and not on the 1/4mile or highway.
[B]Yeah you must have never ridden in a buik Grand National if you think single turbo's are not for V6's.
Have never seen neither ridden that car.
And I don't say that single Turbos are not for V6s. It depends what you need. I need a quick spooling turbo with a straight performance line. I want to race my car on the Nuerburgring and not on the 1/4mile or highway.
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From: Berlin,Germany
Originally posted by ZMike
Single turbos can work on any car...but the engines are different. you can't compare the strength of a GN engine (or a Supra for that matter) to the strength of a 350Z engine! It's just not as strong hence the twin turbo setup. some of you need to get this through your thick head!
Single turbos can work on any car...but the engines are different. you can't compare the strength of a GN engine (or a Supra for that matter) to the strength of a 350Z engine! It's just not as strong hence the twin turbo setup. some of you need to get this through your thick head!
What I ment is following: of course the single turbos work on every engine. They can even work great on our engine. But why are there only twin turbo setups (of leading brands) for import V6s?
An in-line 6 cyl. like the supra can easier be equipped with a single turbo than with a twin turbo.
Same for RX-7, Skyline and others.
I'd love to see an HKS ball bearing GT2530 twin turbo set up for our Z.
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From: Dallas, Tx
Originally posted by John2001gt
LOL!!
I've said it on almost every related thread but I'll say it again. First one to come out with a quality kit for a reasonable price will be selling one to me.
LOL!!
I've said it on almost every related thread but I'll say it again. First one to come out with a quality kit for a reasonable price will be selling one to me.
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From: OC
Originally posted by Ricky
That is exactly it. Thanks for putting it better words.
Basically this thread is to test the interest.. How many of you would be willing to pay roughly $6,000-8,000 on a single turbo, stage 1 kit which will produce roughly 380rwhp SAFELY, with a complete fuel management system?
That is exactly it. Thanks for putting it better words.
Basically this thread is to test the interest.. How many of you would be willing to pay roughly $6,000-8,000 on a single turbo, stage 1 kit which will produce roughly 380rwhp SAFELY, with a complete fuel management system?
also about the fuel management will this be user tunable, and will we be able to p[erhaps have multiple settings... for the nitrous kids out there there is a little more work to be done with that fuel mapping...
-non
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From: Amherst, NY
Originally posted by Dom
What I ment is following: of course the single turbos work on every engine. They can even work great on our engine. But why are there only twin turbo setups (of leading brands) for import V6s?
An in-line 6 cyl. like the supra can easier be equipped with a single turbo than with a twin turbo.
Same for RX-7, Skyline and others.
I'd love to see an HKS ball bearing GT2530 twin turbo set up for our Z.
What I ment is following: of course the single turbos work on every engine. They can even work great on our engine. But why are there only twin turbo setups (of leading brands) for import V6s?
An in-line 6 cyl. like the supra can easier be equipped with a single turbo than with a twin turbo.
Same for RX-7, Skyline and others.
I'd love to see an HKS ball bearing GT2530 twin turbo set up for our Z.
All the cars you listed above: Supra, RX-7, SKYLINE (!!!) ALL HAVE SOME SERIOUS BLOCKS! These blocks can handle so much more horsepower than ours. This is why they can go with a single turbo setup. Notice the single turbo setups involve a very large T4 turbo? This is because these stock blocks can handle the abuse of running these large turbos in their efficiency range. Really, why do you think everyone is coming out with a twin turbo setup...not because they WANT to make the kit expensive, but because it only makes sense.
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From: West Haven, CT
You guys are arguing about prices for the Z, and it makes me wonder if any of u have one. U cant even buy a floor mat for under 100 bucks, no wonder why the turbo kits are so expensive. J/K. Seriously though If u havnt noticed, there is no room in the engine bay, u cant really squeeze anything in there. I been waitin for the Greddy Kit for about 6 months and i was told it would be out mid summer. Yet i am still waiting. I know that Power has a kit comin to USA soon and it claims to handle 400+ hp. But i am still a greddy man. A company such as greddy still hasnt met there deadline for the tt for the z and that is because there are more reasons than just worrying about price. First off the kit has to be somewhat simple to put in, if it is to intense then only for installation purposes people wont buy the kit. It has to be almost perfect especially selling at that price. People will buy the kit no matter how expensive, as long as it shows serious increases in numbers. The Z isnt a civic, its an affordable sports car at the least. A twin turbo does make more sence on this car in my personal opinion but then again who the hell am I, but there is a good potential for a single turbo, i would like to see a little more information on the single t though as well.
The other thing that i must ask is how the hell do any of you know what this engine is capable of, some of you talk about the engine not being able to handle as much as the skyline or supra etc, but the stillen supercharger jus came out for the car and before that all the performance parts for this car consisted of cold air intakes, pop chargers, camshafts and nismo headers so where are you making these statements from. None of us have any idea of what this engine is capable of. The companies making parts for this car dont know the limits of this car, so to say that the engine is weak is an understatement. Instead of arguing about which is a better product for the car a tt or t, how about when the power tt, greddy tt, and PF's single t come out, we check the dyno sheets and let that do the talking for us.
The other thing that i must ask is how the hell do any of you know what this engine is capable of, some of you talk about the engine not being able to handle as much as the skyline or supra etc, but the stillen supercharger jus came out for the car and before that all the performance parts for this car consisted of cold air intakes, pop chargers, camshafts and nismo headers so where are you making these statements from. None of us have any idea of what this engine is capable of. The companies making parts for this car dont know the limits of this car, so to say that the engine is weak is an understatement. Instead of arguing about which is a better product for the car a tt or t, how about when the power tt, greddy tt, and PF's single t come out, we check the dyno sheets and let that do the talking for us.
Last edited by Sean00500; Oct 4, 2003 at 09:53 AM.
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From: ---
Re: PF
Originally posted by 7 eleven
As with anything, there is more to PF than one is first led to believe. As a long time FD owner I've seen and even dealt with PF before. PF had quite a few run ins and even legal battles with customers over the years. I just want anybody thinking of doing this be fully aware of where their hard earned 6 plus grand is going. You should do a search for Peter Farrell over on the RX7 fourm at www.RX7Club.com use what you find to come to your own conclusion. Of course there are two sides to every story but both parties posted their side so it should be up to you to decide. I found a site by a fellow FD owner that shows both sides pretty fair so you don't have to dig through alot of stuff.
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/a_little_in...er_farrell.htm
Gary
As with anything, there is more to PF than one is first led to believe. As a long time FD owner I've seen and even dealt with PF before. PF had quite a few run ins and even legal battles with customers over the years. I just want anybody thinking of doing this be fully aware of where their hard earned 6 plus grand is going. You should do a search for Peter Farrell over on the RX7 fourm at www.RX7Club.com use what you find to come to your own conclusion. Of course there are two sides to every story but both parties posted their side so it should be up to you to decide. I found a site by a fellow FD owner that shows both sides pretty fair so you don't have to dig through alot of stuff.
http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/a_little_in...er_farrell.htm
Gary
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From: Connecticut
Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
No he is saying that he is not going to compromise his reputation/quality/price and if the Z becomes a high dollar Civic then his product will not sell as well. I think his strategy is correct because a FI kit for the Z is only one of many products he offers. If he compromises something for the Z, it could affect the rest of his business.
No he is saying that he is not going to compromise his reputation/quality/price and if the Z becomes a high dollar Civic then his product will not sell as well. I think his strategy is correct because a FI kit for the Z is only one of many products he offers. If he compromises something for the Z, it could affect the rest of his business.
I have seen zee owners, on this board alone; invest tens of thousands of dollars in their 350Z(s).
“If he compromises something for the Z,” it should affect his reputation, absolutely and I would think that the same goes for any and every aftermarket Zee mod pusher.
If PF has serious doubts about the 350Z, then why is he even wasting his valuable time in working on a prototype turbo for the zee?
My thoughts: come out with the product and let the mod speak for itself, whether its worth its weight in gold....or NOT
G