Honest Input (researched thread)
The larger the exhaust the faster it will spool. I know you guys hate Turbonetics but my friend down the road was running stock exhaust with his kit. I sold him my custom single 3" exhaust and he had to get a re-tune because boost wast coming on 900 rmp's sooner.
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This is also why so many factory turbo cars get HUGE gains from just adding a downpipe.
One thing we are forgetting is the VQ has weak rods. Having less torque is somewhat of a good thing for this reason. The faster and lower rpm that torque hits the more stress on the engine. This is the one thing a centrifugal SC has over turbos is that it is very easy to run 400+ whp and have long term reliability. Plus it is easy as hell to install. Here is my advice:
1. Centrifugal SC = Low cost, lowest stress, easiest to install, least fun.
2. Single Turbo = Low cost, fair stress, easy to install, fun.
3. Twin Turbo = High cost, high stress, hard to install, very fun.
I would also consider Boosted Probe's Single turbo kit. It is very easy to install and places the turbo below the engine so you have none of the heat issues associated with the TN or PL kit.
Everyone will have their opinion but there really isn't a wrong answer. It's really up to you and what your goals are.
1. Centrifugal SC = Low cost, lowest stress, easiest to install, least fun.
2. Single Turbo = Low cost, fair stress, easy to install, fun.
3. Twin Turbo = High cost, high stress, hard to install, very fun.
I would also consider Boosted Probe's Single turbo kit. It is very easy to install and places the turbo below the engine so you have none of the heat issues associated with the TN or PL kit.
Everyone will have their opinion but there really isn't a wrong answer. It's really up to you and what your goals are.
One thing we are forgetting is the VQ has weak rods. Having less torque is somewhat of a good thing for this reason. The faster and lower rpm that torque hits the more stress on the engine. This is the one thing a centrifugal SC has over turbos is that it is very easy to run 400+ whp and have long term reliability. Plus it is easy as hell to install. Here is my advice:
1. Centrifugal SC = Low cost, lowest stress, easiest to install, least fun.
2. Single Turbo = Low cost, fair stress, easy to install, fun.
3. Twin Turbo = High cost, high stress, hard to install, very fun.
I would also consider Boosted Probe's Single turbo kit. It is very easy to install and places the turbo below the engine so you have none of the heat issues associated with the TN or PL kit.
Everyone will have their opinion but there really isn't a wrong answer. It's really up to you and what your goals are.
1. Centrifugal SC = Low cost, lowest stress, easiest to install, least fun.
2. Single Turbo = Low cost, fair stress, easy to install, fun.
3. Twin Turbo = High cost, high stress, hard to install, very fun.
I would also consider Boosted Probe's Single turbo kit. It is very easy to install and places the turbo below the engine so you have none of the heat issues associated with the TN or PL kit.
Everyone will have their opinion but there really isn't a wrong answer. It's really up to you and what your goals are.
and i'm not quite sure how a GreddyTT Kit running 400whp/400tq will have more stress than a Turbonetics Kit running 400whp/400tq
and the reason most of us won't run SuperChargers is yeah.. sure you can get 400whp .. but you have no TQ.. and thats why a Turbo 350z with 400whp will walk away from a Supercharged 400whp 350z anyday of the week
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this is all a ruse by doug to keep you from finding out about the stillen kit....it's what he runs and wants to be the only one.
EDIT: you should pm him to discuss it's merits.
EDIT: you should pm him to discuss it's merits.
Last edited by go-fast; Nov 20, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
Rods that can handle double the factory intended output for thousands of miles on a vast majority of FI 350Zs aren't what I would call "weak". Are they the strongest factory rods in an N/A motor out there? Probably not, but they are anything but weak.
well before anyone jumps the gun about the difference between a single kit and a TT...
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
also, for a DD reliability it will all come down to the tune of the car no matter what kit he gets. I've heard nothing but good things about forged so i think the OP is in good hands with whatever he decides to go with.
everyone posting what their TT setup can do running 600+whp why don't you read what the OP said, he said 400whp is plenty...now that said, if he wants to run a reliable setup at 400whp with stock internals, it won't matter if he gets a single or TT because the turbo sizes will not vary much and your talking about 100's of RPM differences in spool time, enough to where it won't even matter if he just tracks it every now and then
so to the OP get what fits your budget and needs at this time and realize with all this power you will need upgraded brakes, wheels/tires, suspension, cooling, etc...now not all of this is needed but HIGHLY recommended
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
also, for a DD reliability it will all come down to the tune of the car no matter what kit he gets. I've heard nothing but good things about forged so i think the OP is in good hands with whatever he decides to go with.
everyone posting what their TT setup can do running 600+whp why don't you read what the OP said, he said 400whp is plenty...now that said, if he wants to run a reliable setup at 400whp with stock internals, it won't matter if he gets a single or TT because the turbo sizes will not vary much and your talking about 100's of RPM differences in spool time, enough to where it won't even matter if he just tracks it every now and then
so to the OP get what fits your budget and needs at this time and realize with all this power you will need upgraded brakes, wheels/tires, suspension, cooling, etc...now not all of this is needed but HIGHLY recommended
well before anyone jumps the gun about the difference between a single kit and a TT...
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
everyone posting what their TT setup can do running 600+whp why don't you read what the OP said, he said 400whp is plenty...now that said, if he wants to run a reliable setup at 400whp with stock internals, it won't matter if he gets a single or TT because the turbo sizes will not vary much and your talking about 100's of RPM differences in spool time, enough to where it won't even matter if he just tracks it every now and then
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well before anyone jumps the gun about the difference between a single kit and a TT...
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
also, for a DD reliability it will all come down to the tune of the car no matter what kit he gets. I've heard nothing but good things about forged so i think the OP is in good hands with whatever he decides to go with.
everyone posting what their TT setup can do running 600+whp why don't you read what the OP said, he said 400whp is plenty...now that said, if he wants to run a reliable setup at 400whp with stock internals, it won't matter if he gets a single or TT because the turbo sizes will not vary much and your talking about 100's of RPM differences in spool time, enough to where it won't even matter if he just tracks it every now and then
so to the OP get what fits your budget and needs at this time and realize with all this power you will need upgraded brakes, wheels/tires, suspension, cooling, etc...now not all of this is needed but HIGHLY recommended
spool time reflects the size of the turbo...the bigger the turbo, the bigger the lag BUT the more power it can produce...this is FI 101, hence why at the end of my statement i said that it depends of the turbo size
also, for a DD reliability it will all come down to the tune of the car no matter what kit he gets. I've heard nothing but good things about forged so i think the OP is in good hands with whatever he decides to go with.
everyone posting what their TT setup can do running 600+whp why don't you read what the OP said, he said 400whp is plenty...now that said, if he wants to run a reliable setup at 400whp with stock internals, it won't matter if he gets a single or TT because the turbo sizes will not vary much and your talking about 100's of RPM differences in spool time, enough to where it won't even matter if he just tracks it every now and then
so to the OP get what fits your budget and needs at this time and realize with all this power you will need upgraded brakes, wheels/tires, suspension, cooling, etc...now not all of this is needed but HIGHLY recommended
Someone finally got back on topic. Thanks
once again briguymax, you AREN'T reading....you just basically quoted me and told me what i said in your own words...i ALREADY covered the point of the minuet difference between spool times of a ST and TT...and i'll cover it again since you didn't read, TURBO LAG DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE ACTUAL TURBO.
and if the OP does get bored with his 400whp, which for a street car that WAY more than needed, he will first have to build the bottom end of the engine, ONCE AGAIN FI 101...then at this point if he does this (he would obviously have the money) he can upgrade the turbo on a single kit and still pay less for a TT...check out powerlabs ST record holding VQ for instance. just because everyone goes TT doesn't mean it's the right setup for everyone, so don't bash someone for not being a sheep...so before you bash anyone get your facts correct first before playing who has the bigger ***** on the internet
and if the OP does get bored with his 400whp, which for a street car that WAY more than needed, he will first have to build the bottom end of the engine, ONCE AGAIN FI 101...then at this point if he does this (he would obviously have the money) he can upgrade the turbo on a single kit and still pay less for a TT...check out powerlabs ST record holding VQ for instance. just because everyone goes TT doesn't mean it's the right setup for everyone, so don't bash someone for not being a sheep...so before you bash anyone get your facts correct first before playing who has the bigger ***** on the internet
Last edited by Z You Later; Nov 21, 2009 at 08:13 AM.
once again briguymax, you AREN'T reading....you just basically quoted me and told me what i said in your own words...i ALREADY covered the point of the minuet difference between spool times of a ST and TT...and i'll cover it again since you didn't read, TURBO LAG DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE ACTUAL TURBO.
and if the OP does get bored with his 400whp, which for a street car that WAY more than needed, he will first have to build the bottom end of the engine, ONCE AGAIN FI 101...then at this point if he does this (he would obviously have the money) he can upgrade the turbo on a single kit and still pay less for a TT...check out powerlabs ST record holding VQ for instance. just because everyone goes TT doesn't mean it's the right setup for everyone, so don't bash someone for not being a sheep...so before you bash anyone get your facts correct first before playing who has the bigger ***** on the internet
and if the OP does get bored with his 400whp, which for a street car that WAY more than needed, he will first have to build the bottom end of the engine, ONCE AGAIN FI 101...then at this point if he does this (he would obviously have the money) he can upgrade the turbo on a single kit and still pay less for a TT...check out powerlabs ST record holding VQ for instance. just because everyone goes TT doesn't mean it's the right setup for everyone, so don't bash someone for not being a sheep...so before you bash anyone get your facts correct first before playing who has the bigger ***** on the internet
now a couple questions for you..
What form of FI do you have?
How long have you been running your FI Setup?
How much whp are you running?
Please give us the numbers on buying a PL Kit and then upgrading it and how its less than a TT Kit initially?
Thanks.. i'm curious and waiting
once again briguymax, you AREN'T reading....you just basically quoted me and told me what i said in your own words...i ALREADY covered the point of the minuet difference between spool times of a ST and TT...and i'll cover it again since you didn't read, TURBO LAG DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE ACTUAL TURBO.
and if the OP does get bored with his 400whp, which for a street car that WAY more than needed, he will first have to build the bottom end of the engine, ONCE AGAIN FI 101...then at this point if he does this (he would obviously have the money) he can upgrade the turbo on a single kit and still pay less for a TT...check out powerlabs ST record holding VQ for instance. just because everyone goes TT doesn't mean it's the right setup for everyone, so don't bash someone for not being a sheep...so before you bash anyone get your facts correct first before playing who has the bigger ***** on the internet
2. ST kits are more complex and less efficient (due to all the extra piping) than Twin kits on V-configuration motors. I already stated the other drawbacks earlier in this thread.
3. Since when does PL have an "record breaking single turbo Z"?? Last I checked, Injected performance's ST drag car was in the 8s.
4. Everyone doesn't get a twin turbo kit, and it doesn't make you a "sheep" because you buy the kit that gives you the least lag with the most area under the curve which makes your car faster for any given boost/peak power level.
You are in over your head.
now a couple questions for you..
What form of FI do you have?
How long have you been running your FI Setup?
How much whp are you running?
Please give us the numbers on buying a PL Kit and then upgrading it and how its less than a TT Kit initially?
Thanks.. i'm curious and waiting
What form of FI do you have?
How long have you been running your FI Setup?
How much whp are you running?
Please give us the numbers on buying a PL Kit and then upgrading it and how its less than a TT Kit initially?
Thanks.. i'm curious and waiting
ONCE AGAIN since nobody wants to read what i've said, to get ABOVE 400whp that is RELIABLE and SAFE and that you won't run into major issues later down the road, you need to start building the internals...this have been proven MANY MANY times about the downfall to the VQ
i'm not bashing TT kits what-so-ever, i just think for the OP, budget/power wise he should go ST since it costs half the price of a TT and the spooling difference is so minuet, he won't even really notice or care if he's not really tracking the car...now take that into effect of someone who's serious into street racing and that needs that extra spooling time then by all means go ahead but i'm not condoning illegal activities....but if he has the money to spend then by all means get a TT..some people just don't like throwing money out in the wind just to get almost identical numbers because everyone has it or thinks it's just that much better for what he's looking into.
God, you just don't get it, do you? Yes, it does but that doesn't make your point in any way relevant to to topic at hand. The FACT is ST kits for the 350Z use turbos that are significantly larger than the each of the two turbos used on the basic TT kits for the 350Z. Therefore, they will LAG MORE. A good bit more if you would look at the dynos or drive both a ST and a TT Z. (you still haven't told us what experience have with both)
1. What?
2. ST kits are more complex and less efficient (due to all the extra piping) than Twin kits on V-configuration motors. I already stated the other drawbacks earlier in this thread.
3. Since when does PL have an "record breaking single turbo Z"?? Last I checked, Injected performance's ST drag car was in the 8s.
4. Everyone doesn't get a twin turbo kit, and it doesn't make you a "sheep" because you buy the kit that gives you the least lag with the most area under the curve which makes your car faster for any given boost/peak power level.
You are in over your head.[/QUOTE]
lol
The main issue in the argument that i'm covering is in the OP's interest...if he isn't planning on tracking then why spend the extra $4-5k?? a dyno queen is a dyno queen reguardless...NOW like i said above i'm going by not what's the absolute best kit out there but what the OP is looking for number wise...if he's just going to DD the car and go WOT every now and then on the open road then the 500-600rpm difference in lag won't matter, it'll still be a very fast street car that should be respected in any situation
and that's why i said after you get passed the 400whp you have to build the bottom end...why are you trying to argue with me over something that i've agreed to and already know?
i'm actually doing an N/A build since it's more realiable compared to FI in the long run so why does it matter if i have FI or not? did you ever think that i've had FI or i may ACTUALLY know a few things about cars?? and once again you take something i say WAY out of context...here is a link to the 900whp SINGLE TURBO kit http://intensepower.com/inmovefowig3.html
ONCE AGAIN since nobody wants to read what i've said, to get ABOVE 400whp that is RELIABLE and SAFE and that you won't run into major issues later down the road, you need to start building the internals...this have been proven MANY MANY times about the downfall to the VQ
i'm not bashing TT kits what-so-ever, i just think for the OP, budget/power wise he should go ST since it costs half the price of a TT and the spooling difference is so minuet, he won't even really notice or care if he's not really tracking the car...now take that into effect of someone who's serious into street racing and that needs that extra spooling time then by all means go ahead but i'm not condoning illegal activities....but if he has the money to spend then by all means get a TT..some people just don't like throwing money out in the wind just to get almost identical numbers because everyone has it or thinks it's just that much better for what he's looking into.
i'm actually doing an N/A build since it's more realiable compared to FI in the long run so why does it matter if i have FI or not? did you ever think that i've had FI or i may ACTUALLY know a few things about cars?? and once again you take something i say WAY out of context...here is a link to the 900whp SINGLE TURBO kit http://intensepower.com/inmovefowig3.html
ONCE AGAIN since nobody wants to read what i've said, to get ABOVE 400whp that is RELIABLE and SAFE and that you won't run into major issues later down the road, you need to start building the internals...this have been proven MANY MANY times about the downfall to the VQ
i'm not bashing TT kits what-so-ever, i just think for the OP, budget/power wise he should go ST since it costs half the price of a TT and the spooling difference is so minuet, he won't even really notice or care if he's not really tracking the car...now take that into effect of someone who's serious into street racing and that needs that extra spooling time then by all means go ahead but i'm not condoning illegal activities....but if he has the money to spend then by all means get a TT..some people just don't like throwing money out in the wind just to get almost identical numbers because everyone has it or thinks it's just that much better for what he's looking into.
You are telling us multiple stock block TT owners that the OP shouldn't do it because you according to your so called knowledge you think its best.. however we the ones who actually have the experience don't knwo what we are talking about?
again please answer my last question of how buying an ST Kit and upgrading to a larger turbo is still cheaper than a TT Kit initially.. this was the most important question to your statement and you have yet to answer it.. If you're going to give your strong opinion on what the OP should do based on this information at least provide some proof and numbers to support it
just quoting what the OP said to open the thread...
now it seems as if he's new or fairly new to FI systems so do you think the extra $4-5k is worth that extra .1-.2 seconds?
Sup guys, so I've gotten a wild hair to stick with my guns and go FI. I did a lot of research yesterday on turbo kits etc. I looked at old threads and got a good idea on what I'm getting myself into, but since this is a HUGE step and commitment, I want further input from experienced people.
I looked at old APS TT threads and the general 101 questions and things to know for FI, but nothing quite put the thumb on the issue if you will.
So this is what I've got as a wish list (that I will get in the next year if things go like the should): I'm going to get the APS Premium ball bearing TT kit, the APS 2.5" True Dual w/ metallic HFC, along with a Kinetix Velocity Manifold. I'll be purchasing all of this from Z1 Motorsports, and have them do the install/tune.
Now I only plan on running 8-9PSI boost for longevity issues, plus 400-430whp is plenty. I do not intend on getting a boost controller either. What I'd like from you guys is to help me fill in any blanks I may have left off to make sure I keep my engine running for as long as possible.
I understand that getting oil coolers and larger oil pans are a good thing, but how good are they? Is it worth the extra investment? Do I need to improve my stock radiator to help cooling as well? What other improvements are needed to keep the stock block happy?
And lastly, I've read that the APS turbos are the things that give out first on these kits, for the people that have them, what issues (if any) can I expect from this kit?
(Flame suit is on for those that feel the need)
I looked at old APS TT threads and the general 101 questions and things to know for FI, but nothing quite put the thumb on the issue if you will.
So this is what I've got as a wish list (that I will get in the next year if things go like the should): I'm going to get the APS Premium ball bearing TT kit, the APS 2.5" True Dual w/ metallic HFC, along with a Kinetix Velocity Manifold. I'll be purchasing all of this from Z1 Motorsports, and have them do the install/tune.
Now I only plan on running 8-9PSI boost for longevity issues, plus 400-430whp is plenty. I do not intend on getting a boost controller either. What I'd like from you guys is to help me fill in any blanks I may have left off to make sure I keep my engine running for as long as possible.
I understand that getting oil coolers and larger oil pans are a good thing, but how good are they? Is it worth the extra investment? Do I need to improve my stock radiator to help cooling as well? What other improvements are needed to keep the stock block happy?
And lastly, I've read that the APS turbos are the things that give out first on these kits, for the people that have them, what issues (if any) can I expect from this kit?
(Flame suit is on for those that feel the need)
now it seems as if he's new or fairly new to FI systems so do you think the extra $4-5k is worth that extra .1-.2 seconds?
https://my350z.com/forum/vendor-grou...ow-prices.html
Powerlab Kit: $6,120.00
http://intensepower.com/pogtsitukiti.html
say what now?
Last edited by doug; Nov 21, 2009 at 09:59 AM.