qqqqball

iTrader: (10)

+1 on mil discount

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

anyone any dyno numbers from guys runnin this stage one short block with stock heads?

Vas_Z33

iTrader: (39)

+1 on that

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

another question..dont flame me if this is a stupid question... but im trying to save $$ on labor (dont answer if ur gonna tell me to ditch it and thro any other kit on) i have a guy pullin my motor.. will it be possible to put most of my turbo back on my new motor while its out and still install the new motor somewhat conviently... i know some kit require removal of the motor to install the kit.. but asfar as the TN kit will this be possible?

zmedic16

iTrader: (6)

tn kit doesnt require the motor to be out. nor will it make it any easier i dont think.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I had over 600 whp with only mild head modifications. I have the intake and exhaust ports match ported and Ferrea valves. I was running JWT C2 cams.

I did destroy two rod bearings, but that was completely my fault. I did a WOT shift and the rev limiter did not kick in. I burrried the tachometer - well over 10,000 rpm I would presume.

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

what were you using for fuel supply? injectors, fuel pump size ect.

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

i inderstand it isnt required to pull the motor to install it i already had it installed before.. i meant how far into the installation of the kit can i go while the motor is out because i would asume it would be easier to install alot of it while i have way more room to access areas before i put into the crammed engine bay

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

another question for built guys.. i jus paid for this lastnight so i still have time to add this option... how critical is adding the Ceramic/Moly Piston Coating for an extra 250 bucks..the product description says

"Coating the piston reduces friction and wear, reduces part operating temperature, can increase horse power and torque, reduce or eliminate detonation, and allow tighter piston to wall clearances for a better ring seal."

is this worth the 250.. did anyone not take this option and wish they had?

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

When I hit 600 whp, I had a SP tripple pump hangar using two Walbros (3rd was a backup), CJ Motorsports Stage 2 FRS, HKS 1000cc injectors.

The SP tripple pump hanger was a little noisy for me and did not use the stock surge tank, so I sold it. In hindsight, I could have used some screws to better secure the fuel pumps in the hangar to eliminate some of the noise, but oh well. Still, I was concerned that not having the stock surge tank would result in fuel pickup issues when running on road courses, which is the reason I am building my car.

Now, I will be using the stock fuel pump hanger/surge tank with a single Walbro. That will supply fuel to an external surge/swirl tank at low pressure. At low pressure, the Walbro can move quite a bit of fuel. I have an Essex fuel pump to supply fuel from the surge tank to the fuel rails using a custom FRS supplying fuel to, and returning from, CJ Motorsports fuel rails. I believe that using both the stock surge tank and the external surge tank should eliminate fuel supply issues. When I took my car to Sebring, I had just the stock fuel hangar with a single Walbro (this was before I installed the SP triple pump hangar). I was running out of fuel at the end of the long straights becaues the Walbro had sucked the stock surge tank dry, which caused me to sputter and lean out. The stock fuel assembly could not re-fill the stock hangar/surge tank as fast as I needed. This was not good for the motor, nor was it fun to have to back off the gas before I was at the end of the straights.

Here is a drawing of my new setup:



I am also going to do some of the GTM recommended modifications to the stock hangar. This should help increase the rate at which fuel is transferred to the hangar from the main tank. That, in combination with the external surge tank, should alleviate my fuel delivery issues. With the new 4.0L motor, my fuel delivery requirements will be even greater than before.

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I called Wiseco and spoke to a piston engineer about this. He did indeed recommend using the ceramic/moly coating. The ceramic coating will even out the temperature accross the top of the piston (i.e., mitigate hot spots that form), thereby staving off detonation a bit. In other words, the ceramic coating should enable you to squeak out a bit more hp before detonation becomes an issue. The ceramic coating also acts as a thermal barrier, meaning less heat is transferred to the piston. That energy, instead, is kept in the combustion gasses, which results in a bit more kinetic energy being generated by the combustion process (i.e., hp).

The moly coating should reduce friction a bit, thereby resulting in a little less friction losses, and thus providing a little more hp as well.

How much more hp will this give you? Probably less than 10 hp on pump gas, but I really don't know. I figure that every little bit helps, so I have the pistons in my new motor coated, as I did with my previous motor.

This time around, I also have my combustion chambers, valve faces, intake ports and exhaust ports ceramic coated, as well as my intake runners, exhaust manifolds, turbine housings and downpipes. The reasoning behind coating the combustion chambers and valves is pretty much the same as coating the pistons.

I have the exhaust ports, manifolds and turbine housings ceramic coated to reduce the transfer of thermal energy from the exhaust gasses. This means that there is a little more energy to spin the turbos. It's the same concept as using turbo blankets.

Another major benefit of all this is that it significantly reduces engine bay temps. The first time I pushed my car hard without thermal barriers on the manifolds, turbine housings or downpipes, I was hit by a heat wave when I opened up my hood. It was quite surprising to me. After that, I heat wrapped the downpipes, put on turbo blankets and got a vented hood. This made a huge difference - the engine bay temps came way down.

This time I opted to ceramic coat the downpipes and turbine housings because it is cleaner, is supposed to work better (I have not confirmed this), and ceramic coating the turbine housings was a fraction of the cost of turbo blankets (something like $90 vs $250).

I have the intake ports and intake runners ceramic coated to minimize heat transfer from the heads to the intake air/fuel mixture. This should result in the air/fuel mixter being a little bit cooler, and thus more dense, which should increase the amount of air/fuel mixture that enters the combustion chamber. Having a cooler intake air/fuel mixter also should help to mitigate the onset of detonation.

It total, I do expect to see a noticable increase in hp for a given fuel octane level (especially on pump gas). I don't have anything directly to compare it to, so it is very difficult to quantify how much of an increase that will be. Going to the extent that I am probably is not the best bang for the buck, but in comparison to the overall cost of my build, the cost of the ceramic coating is just a drop in the bucket. It really is not that expensive to do. To me, just keeping the engine bay temps down alone makes it worthwhile.

I get long winded when I write (an occupational hazard I guess), but I like to be thorough in my explanations.

erichsherrill

iTrader: (3)

wow nice info.. pretty redic fuel system i wont be doin anything like that anytime soon.. and for the moly coating ill prolly do it then.. im being recommended that i get my heads cleaned incase there as any metal frag in there from the spun bearing.. whats a decent price to get this done.. i would go with ipp but i dont wanna send my head all the way there

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure what it will cost to clean the heads, but it would be good to do so. You don't want any bearing fragments floating around. I don't think it should cost that much. I would check with a local shop or two that work on heads.

SH Luciano

iTrader: (1)

you can get a full long block from kyle, assembled, and just send him yours back. that means he'll put it together, ensuring the heads are torqued correctly, etc...and all you have to do is time it and drop it in. definitely more convenient, but will likely add a small amount of cost to the build. but hey, you'll always get your core charge back on block/heads, provided they aren't jacked beyond repair.

Vas_Z33

iTrader: (39)

ttg35fort- what do you think about the bearings that they offer? how fast do they spin? I do plan to build my motor later and run cams/heads.. but im not sure how good those bearings are.. id like to rev to 7500.. or would it be better to go with cosworth bearings? or suggestions?

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

If I remember correctly, IPP uses ACL race bearings. These are very good bearings. I reved to 7500 without any issues. As for the Cosworth bearings, I don't know much about them. I know that Cosworth does outsource some of their components. I would not be surprised if their bearings were sourced from ACL, although I do not know whether this is the case. Perhaps someone else in the forum knows. It may be worth researching.

When I over reved, I believe I was well north of 10,000 rpm. Also, I had a stock aluminum girdle, which means that my block likely flexed quite a bit. That puts great strain on the bearings. On my new motor, I have a chromolly girdle going in. This should add a significant amount of rigidity to the block. I beleive that most of the guys reving up past 8,000 rpms are using chromolly girdles, at least the builds I have seen.

Vas_Z33

iTrader: (39)

Ohh I see , I see... i was just wondering because on there website it says that they use " New Moly coated Race Spec main bearings installed
New Moly coated Race Spec rod bearings installed "

are those the same as ACL?

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

ACL is a manufacturer. I think by indicating "Race Spec" they mean that the bearings are designed for race motors. It would not hurt to give Kyle a call and ask him whether he is still using ACL bearings.

thom000001

FYI,
Sound Performance's shop Z runs ACL bearings and was spinning up at 9000rpm.

Tom

Vas_Z33

iTrader: (39)

good to know ^ =).. ill give kyle a call then