jeffw

So in the meantime, why don't you post a bigger version of the picture you used for your avatar?

Also, just to warn you: You'll probably have to pay my350z.com to be a sponsor in order to keep your phone number up in this thread.

--
Jeff

zland

Thanks for appearing on this site. We appreciate the added service and most of all, we will appreciate a trouble free, well performing product. I hope you guys check out the site often.

Jeff - zland

damen

are there any actually pics yet nick?

zland

I agree, I would love to see a pic of the REAL SC (Not 3D model on CAD) to see how it looks in the engine bay. We could also see how the strut bar fits over it too.

Nick, you told me you did CARB testing already and are waiting for CARB numbers so that means you have a running prototype. Can we see some pics please?

Jeff - zland

ether

DreamWorkesRacing,

don't know if I've missed this but I had some questions about the fuel management, in particular the fuel injectors.

while I realize that there are two aux injectors, will this system come with upgrades to the stock ones or are those supposed to remain. I'm curious to know the impact on the duty cycles if the stock ones are slated to stay, since I'm assuming with FI and even with the aux injectors they will be moving more fuel than under stock conditions.

While the addition of aux injectors may provide all the fuel needed, would upgrading the stock injectors add some more reliability to the system and would doing so be ok with the system i.e. not throw off the fuel mix ratio and work with the ecu reflash?

one more item, where are the aux injectors physically added? I can't seem to tell from some of the pictures posted. I'm wondering if their position will provide even distribution. would hate to see the average fuel mix correct yet have some cylinders rich and some lean.. worried about detonation issues here.

thanks to Zland for all the post and to dreamworkes for participating on the board

EDIT: I also concurn with the need of larger pics of the Avatar.. the SC can wait

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

by god with the ~340rwhp (I run quite a free flowing exhaust) and the power band of the positive displacement, this would make the car quite damn fast. By some guesstimations with the kit @ 7psi, the kit should put out like another 30 rwhp which is right on par with the ATI, only important & significant pro is that the power band would rip the ATI a new one (provided traction problems will be resolved ) in acceleration to get ahead and stay ahead. This kit will be sweet for off the line quickness and the quarter mile if the power output proves to be as good as it sounds. I can only imagine 12 psi... I'd be happy with 5.5 psi for _now_ lol

MSGarrett1

I would like to reiterate Zland's appreciation. It is very impressive to me, the consumer, when a manufacturer takes the time to become active and involved in these forums, where many of their customers originate. Dream Workes . . . please stay involved. I am very impressed with the apparent direction of your SC system for the 350Z. It appears quality, reliability/durability, and thorough tuning across the RPM range have been your goals, and this should make for the most bullet-proof FI system. I like the fact that your product was not the first to market, and I like your claim of 15 months of R&D thus far. This is the only way to do it right . . . the FIRST time.

OK enough of that. I am interested in any further information regarding the issues that Ether has brought up regarding the fuel management. Will the stock fuel injectors be upgraded with 440cc (or whatever) injectors? Who will manufacture these injectors (a brand name would be nice to know)? I can't imagine that the fuel management system will come without an auxiliary or upgraded fuel pump. Any information regarding the manufacturer of the fuel pump/s? Also, will ignition timing be retarded at the higher RPMS? If so, by how much and at what RPMs? And, if so how will ignition timing be retarded . . . by a piggy back retarder or by the upgraded ECU?

I am very interested that your system plan includes dual air-to-water-to-air intercoolers. I cannot say that air-to-air intercoolers are superior . . . it all depends on the tuning/goals of the system. But I can say that air-to-water-to-air intercoolers will contain more parts and be more time-consuming/difficult to install. Can you comment on the rationale behind choosing air-to-water intercoolers?

Next, earlier you mentioned that both a reflashed stock ECU and a piggy-back ECU have been tested and are functional in this DW SC system. And you said, you are as yet undecided as to which would be included in the final product. Further, final HP numbers and boost numbers are undecided. Are you sure you will be ready to bring your product to market by Jan of '04? Don't get me wrong . . . I'm not asking you to hurry your final testing/R&D . . . in fact, just the opposite. I would encourage you to take your time in deciding the best/most reliable answers to these variables. I for one, am a consumer willing to wait 6 more months to purchase my SC if it means my car will give me years more dependable/reliable use.

And last, your web site states, "Orders can be placed through an authorized Nissan/Infinity dealer, direct from Dream Workes or through an authorized Dream Workes retailer or installation center." Can you provide a list of authorized Nissan/Infinity dealers for your 350Z SC system? Specifically, Nissan dealers in California. Zland, I would appreciate it if you would pass along my questions, via email, to DW.

-Dr. G

MSGarrett1

Sorry, one more question . . . it looks like the installation of this kit will be far more involved than with the Vortec or Procharger kits. Could you estimate the time/cost of installation? If you could pass this along Zland, I'd appreciate it.

zland

1. The DW guys are here on line now, no need to e-mail. If they dont reply within 2 days, I'll e-mail your post for you.

2. I asked Nick if I could post his e-mail address but no reply on that specific question thus until he says yes, I'll respect his privacy.

Good questions BTW....

Jeff - zland

7 eleven

MSGarrett1, Most of your questions have been answered in this thread.

I'm grateful as the next guy that they take the time to answer our questions the least we can do is make it easy as possible for them to answer us by not asking the same things over and over.
Gary

MSGarrett1

Gary (7 eleven),

I have read the entire thread, but you have mostly repeated what others have posted. Let me repeat the nature of my questions and be as brief and succinct as possible:

1) Are these dual aux. fuel injectors to mount in the inlet casting, as with the Stillen kit? The Stillen kit utilizes a cast aluminum plenum, which was developed to bolt directly to the OEM inlet manifold. The Stillen plenum design allows use of all the standard/stock fuel-system components: OEM fuel pump, fuel rails, and OEM fuel injectors. A SINGLE injector mounted in the inlet casting is activated w/ boost to deliver the additional fuel necessary with boost. However, the DW's kit apparently will include upgraded fuel rails and intake runners, so it may not be the same. In other words, in the Stillen kit, the single auxiliary injector works like a TBI to provide additional fuel to all cylinders. Such a system does not require an increase in fuel pressure over stock and, therefore, the fuel flowing through the factory injectors is not increased. However, one would assume that the pressure flowing through the factory injectors will be increased in this DW's kit, b/c they are providing upgraded fuel rails. So I am assuming that they will have 2 aux. injectors mounted just before the intake manifold, which again, function like a Throttle Body Injection system, AND they will have a means of increasing fuel pressure through the stock fuel injectors, much like the Vortech kit. Sort of the best of TBI and EFI . . . kinda cool.

However, I am of the opinion that the most effective way of compensating for the additional fuel required under boost is to replace all of the factory fuel injectors with higher-flowing ones. This method requires recalibration, or replacement, of the factory computer with a new fuel map appropriate for the new injectors. Replacing all of the fuel injectors is expensive and labor intensive, thus making this fuel system upgrade the least popular among kit manufacturers, but DW's can be different. Replace the damn stock injectors and do the damn work to reprogram the factory fuel map. I personally think that the biggest hurdle to FI w/ our Z's is the new computer system Nissan is using with our Z's. Too many sensors, and variables w/ coding that is difficult to decipher . . . just ask Technosquare.

2) Specific manufacturer names for aux injectors and fuel pumps will give me an idea about the quality of the kit.

3) Why would an air-to-water-to-air intercooler be superior for a roots-type blower like the Eaton, but an air-to-air intercooler be superior for centrifugal superchargers like the Vortec and Procharger? Unless, of course, this specific air-to-water intercooler simply cooled better than the air-to-air intercooler. Which it may, in fact, do, at least under some circumstances. At the very least, we can say that intercooling is more important for this kit, as it utilizes a roots-type blower, which produces more discharge heat than centrifugal superchargers--all other things being equal. Of course, it will also produce more boost at lower RPMs--try full boost around 2000-3000 RPM.

4) A list of authorized Nissan dealerships and DW installation centers would be helpful.

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

I wonder what the kits torque rating/curve is like? Seem if it puts out 400 crank HP, that is pretty much equal to the Greddy TT in effeciency thus far. This kit is sounding better by the moment... but the certified seller/installer seems to be the real catch... Unless if there's something in Colorado

D'oh

I can't help with the other questions, but I think I can answer this one.

From what I've seen of this kit (as well as the Stillen kit which also uses an air-water-air I/C) the reason is due to packaging. Because the roots blower sits right on top of the engine, there is no good way to take the air from the SC and send it out to the front of the car, through an air-air I/C and then back through the manifold. The roots blower is practically integrated right into the intake manifold itself, so the I/C needs to be right there as well. Since it is not possible to get an good air path to the top of the engine (the I/C would be blocked by the SC), they run the air-water-air setup to cool the water at the front of the car, then run the cool water into the manifold where it cools the air coming out of the SC.

Because the centrifugal SC's are already near the front of the car, it is much easier to simply route the air through an air-air I/C in the front and then back to the intake manifold.

Again, I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding based on the picutres I've seen of this kit and the I/C'd Stillen Kit.

-D'oh!

MSGarrett1

Thanks, D'oh. Makes sense.

Juztin

iTrader: (9)

According to Dream Workes Website:

Their SC's are available for

SST- 35071A 350Z (Auto Tranny Z)
SST- 35072A G35
SST- 35074A FX-35
SST- 25078A 2.5 SENTRA S
SST- 25078A 2.5 SER
SST- 25079M 2.5 Altima
SST- 35071M 350Z (Manual Tranny Z)
SST- 35072M G35
SST- 35074R FX-35
SST- 25077M 2.5 SER SpecV
SST- 25079A 2.5 Altima

That SC someone mentioned earlier in the thread on the FX-35 that looked strikingly similar to the 350z is probably because it's produced by the same company. From their website and the pic along with the stringly similar design, I'd say these guys built it and displayed it at SEMA. That particular kit looks huge, but looks like they have designed each one to each car models specifications so I wouldnt worry about the Z's particular kit.

MSGarrett1

Why not? Maybe we should worry about this kit. Have you ever heard of Dream Workes Supercharging? I hadn't before this thread. B/c as they have mentioned, they are new to the world of aftermarket supercharging. In fact, this VQ35 pretty much seems to be their very first kit they will bring to market.

Don't get me wrong. Just because you're new to a market, doesn't mean you are inexperienced at performing the task (so long as the company's employees have gained experience at the task from working at other similar companies.) In fact, I like the apparent goals of this kit and this company. But the fact remains that they are new to this . . . Very new. And other companies, like Vortech, have produced aftermarket supercharging systems much longer than this company. Vortech has built a solid reputation in this market. They have the largest production facility, have won several SEMA awards for Best Engineered New Product, and are considered by many to set the industry standard in this market. The fact is, they sell more superchargers than any other single manufacturer. Vortech's reputation is solid in this industry. Dream Worke's reputation doesn't exist, yet. That's both good and bad.

Overall, I must say, I am impressed with what I can ascertain thus far about their kit . . . and most impressed by the drivetrain warranty--try finding that from any other aftermarket supercharger kit manufacturer. The next best would be Stillen, and I think their warranty is only for 3 year/36,000 mile limited engine coverage.

MSGarrett1

Here's some good stuff I found about the differences between air-to-air intercoolers (really they should be called aftercoolers), and air-to-water intercoolers. I found this in the tech pages of http://www.superchargersonline.com

In an air-to-air aftercooler system, the charge air at the supercharger discharge is ducted to a heat exchanger assembly, cooled, and then continues on to the engine inlet. The heat exchanger assembly must be placed where the outside cooling air passes through it. The cooling possible is dictated by the heat exchanger design and size, and the flow and temperature of the air passing through it. You also need to take into consideration the boost loss, packaging within the vehicle, interaction with other cooling systems, and convection heating of the system. Air-to-air systems have little significant thermal transition. This means that the relatively low mass of the heat exchanger system heats and cools almost instantly and the system relies on its effectiveness for any benefits.

In an air-to-water aftercooler system, the charge air at the supercharger discharge is ducted to a heat exchanger assembly, cooled, and then continues to the engine inlet very much like the air-to-air. However, the air-to-water heat exchanger assembly does not need direct exposure to outside cooling air, and it can be much smaller. Because of this, the heat exchanger can be placed right in the existing path between the supercharger discharge and the engine inlet. With no additional ducting or tubes with bends, and a more effective and compact air-to-water heat exchanger, there are much lower frictional losses. Air-to-water aftercooler system employs a second heat exchanger or "radiator" to remove the heat from the system. The second heat exchanger sits in the cooling air, right ahead of the engine’s radiator. The heat exchange actually occurs air-to-water-to-air, but this is still called an air-to-water system. In this system, water is routed from a storage reservoir to the "radiator", where it is cooled, up through the heat exchanger assembly, then back to the reservoir. This cooling loop is completely separate from the engine cooling system and continuously cools the water.

7 eleven

MSGarrett1

You seem very hasty to come to conclusions.
If you spent a little more time looking around on the web (which if you plan to drop 6k+ on a system would be a good idea) You can find who Dreamworks racing partner is. In fact it's on this thread.

Alpine Development is a very high end manufacturer of OEM aftermaket FI installations(think TRD) They are not new to this, While dreamsworks is selling the unit the expertise of Alpine Development is what is going to make this a great system.

I hope you don't see this as a attack but the board it riddled with false information and best guesses by people that are new to engine mods. This really hurts others that rarely talk but want to learn. Thanks for posting the information on the differences between the different intercoolers for those who where wondering. Also Nicks number is on this thread please call him, he's a great guy and will answer all your questions and give him a chance to calm your nerves about Dreamworks being "new".
Gary

zland

7 eleven & MSGarrett1....good posts.

MSGarrett1

Thanks, Gary. I didn't mean to say that the "people" working on developing, marketing, and selling this kit are new to the business, just that the "company" Dream Workes is a relatively new company to the business.