to F/I or not to F/I
10-04-2011, 07:54 AM
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to F/I or not to F/I
hows it goin evry1... ive had my 03 350z enthusiast for about 5-6yrs now and im ready to start thinkin bout F/I... now i know there are a lot of posts that can be searched through but i just want a clear quick answer without the headache of reading 1M posts... so here we go
my car currently only has 56,000 original miles on it and i would like to add a SC or turbo to the mix... ive done sum preliminary research and although the high power output of a turbo system i cant deny that the reliability and boost throughout the entire powerband is grabbing my attention more... especially the reliability part cuz i really dont want my car to be in the shop more than in my driveway...
my car is getting up there in age and throwing in a SC or turbo spells diasaster to me so i want to build the motor and tranny (clutch, flywheel, lsd) to handle watever power i may get... i would be very happy with 400hp but thats wat ppl say they get on stock internals so im assuming id get more... any past experiences or opinions on SC or turbo? i knw this question is asked a lot but id like the past experienced guys to gimme sum info also with wat parts
my car currently only has 56,000 original miles on it and i would like to add a SC or turbo to the mix... ive done sum preliminary research and although the high power output of a turbo system i cant deny that the reliability and boost throughout the entire powerband is grabbing my attention more... especially the reliability part cuz i really dont want my car to be in the shop more than in my driveway...
my car is getting up there in age and throwing in a SC or turbo spells diasaster to me so i want to build the motor and tranny (clutch, flywheel, lsd) to handle watever power i may get... i would be very happy with 400hp but thats wat ppl say they get on stock internals so im assuming id get more... any past experiences or opinions on SC or turbo? i knw this question is asked a lot but id like the past experienced guys to gimme sum info also with wat parts
10-04-2011, 08:04 AM
#2
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I have an 03 which I boosted about 15 k miles ago.. Car had approx 60 k on it wen I did this... I have several alleged highway pulls and numerous 1/4 mile passes and the car is holding up great.. I daily drive it and beat on it every chance I get....
This was the best mod ever....
You will find that everything u need to do to prepare yourself has already been discussed and u have to use ur judgement putting together ur car...
Good luck,
For details on the best S/T kit click the link below....
This was the best mod ever....
You will find that everything u need to do to prepare yourself has already been discussed and u have to use ur judgement putting together ur car...
Good luck,
For details on the best S/T kit click the link below....
10-04-2011, 08:31 AM
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Just curious, what part of FL are you at?
I know a few people with fi setups. So far the vortech super charger has lasted the longest. I believe it went over 50k miles on stock internals. Died at around 146k.
I know a few people with fi setups. So far the vortech super charger has lasted the longest. I believe it went over 50k miles on stock internals. Died at around 146k.
10-04-2011, 08:45 AM
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10-04-2011, 01:03 PM
#7
you really need to decide whether you want a turbo or s/c before building the motor since the components used would vary slightly. Generally when dealing with a built motor with forced induction, the failures are due to bad machining or bad tuning so your point about a supercharger being more reliable is moot. Generally the senses is that a supercharger is "more reliable" compared to a turbo setup when dealing with a stock block since it doesn't make as much torque. Since you are planning to build the engine, you don't really have to take that into account and should go with what you want.
Here are a few pro vs cons of a s/c setup
Supercharger Pros:
Power throughout the rpm band
Easier/Cheaper to install then a twin turbo setup
Less points of failure then tt
Supercharger Cons:
Does not make as much torque
Harder to get high hp
You have to worry about belts slipping
Here are a few pro vs cons of a s/c setup
Supercharger Pros:
Power throughout the rpm band
Easier/Cheaper to install then a twin turbo setup
Less points of failure then tt
Supercharger Cons:
Does not make as much torque
Harder to get high hp
You have to worry about belts slipping
Last edited by dikspiel; 10-04-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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10-04-2011, 04:55 PM
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Thanks u gave me the answer I was looking for... It's gonna take me a little longer to get the $ for the setup but tt it is... By the way knw of n e good setups? Last time I looked into it aps had a good one
10-04-2011, 06:00 PM
#9
APS no longer makes kits for our car, your other options are GTM, JWT, Greddy, and SFR.
Really depends on the power delivery you want, here is what i think:
JWT 530bb: very quick spooling turbos but with a built motor you will need to upgrade the turbos you might want to go with the 700bb kit at the very least if you want to make big power. I don't recall reading about fitment issues either. Don't use the EMS that comes with the kit.
Greddy 18g: Great kit but the piping is a little cheap in my opinion. A better option then the JWT 530bb out of the box with a built motor. Don't use the EMS that comes with the kit.
GTM Stage 1 or 2: Turbos do not spool as fast as the JWT 530bb but they will give you more power. Intercooler is huge and if you wish to retain the crash bar then this isn't the right turbo kit for you. There has been concerns about fitment with this kit but from my own experience there wasn't any issues from what my installer said. If you decide to get the turnkey kit it comes with the UpRev reflash which is a better option then what you get with the JWT or Greddy kits (imo).
SFR TT: Designed for big HP out of the box since it comes with 2 60-1 Hifi Turbonetics. Built motor + this kit = freeway monster. This kit has the best exhaust manifold setup imo, i like how the wastegates are intergrated into it. A oil scavenge pump is required for this kit which I do not like since its another point of failure.
All of the above kits are good, it really depends on what your budget is and a few other variables. Since you are building the motor, I would highly recommend in getting a haltech for EMS.
Really depends on the power delivery you want, here is what i think:
JWT 530bb: very quick spooling turbos but with a built motor you will need to upgrade the turbos you might want to go with the 700bb kit at the very least if you want to make big power. I don't recall reading about fitment issues either. Don't use the EMS that comes with the kit.
Greddy 18g: Great kit but the piping is a little cheap in my opinion. A better option then the JWT 530bb out of the box with a built motor. Don't use the EMS that comes with the kit.
GTM Stage 1 or 2: Turbos do not spool as fast as the JWT 530bb but they will give you more power. Intercooler is huge and if you wish to retain the crash bar then this isn't the right turbo kit for you. There has been concerns about fitment with this kit but from my own experience there wasn't any issues from what my installer said. If you decide to get the turnkey kit it comes with the UpRev reflash which is a better option then what you get with the JWT or Greddy kits (imo).
SFR TT: Designed for big HP out of the box since it comes with 2 60-1 Hifi Turbonetics. Built motor + this kit = freeway monster. This kit has the best exhaust manifold setup imo, i like how the wastegates are intergrated into it. A oil scavenge pump is required for this kit which I do not like since its another point of failure.
All of the above kits are good, it really depends on what your budget is and a few other variables. Since you are building the motor, I would highly recommend in getting a haltech for EMS.
Last edited by dikspiel; 10-04-2011 at 06:08 PM.
10-04-2011, 06:10 PM
#10
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I have Vortech setup with pretty much every bolt on money can buy, 3.9 gears
, F Con exc, and all I can say is it's a blast but you'll always want more power and boy does it cost. Make sure you got lots of money. And have fun.
, F Con exc, and all I can say is it's a blast but you'll always want more power and boy does it cost. Make sure you got lots of money. And have fun.
10-05-2011, 08:17 AM
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or u have guys like me with the same rods and whatnot as you who blew thier engine with bolt on parts only and no racing.
The big question you MUST ask yourself is not if you can barely squeeze the build and Fi "reliably"... i promise you this.. .you need to ask yourself if you can afford to not have your car for 5 months.. if you can afford to fix it if you do blow it up w FI etc.. Its not an end all expense sadly. You will need to tune and maintain either system, and in the end, the initial build and kit cost is really just the cost of membership to the FI club..once youre in, theres still a yearly upkeep charge as well. etc etc.
take it from a guy who beleives in fully understanding the bad sides and planning for contingencies.. as i sit thru one right as we speak.
The big question you MUST ask yourself is not if you can barely squeeze the build and Fi "reliably"... i promise you this.. .you need to ask yourself if you can afford to not have your car for 5 months.. if you can afford to fix it if you do blow it up w FI etc.. Its not an end all expense sadly. You will need to tune and maintain either system, and in the end, the initial build and kit cost is really just the cost of membership to the FI club..once youre in, theres still a yearly upkeep charge as well. etc etc.
take it from a guy who beleives in fully understanding the bad sides and planning for contingencies.. as i sit thru one right as we speak.
10-05-2011, 10:25 AM
#15
I bought my used Greddy TT kit for $4K, and it was a great deal. But I haven't installed it because various things needed upgrading or rebuilding:
1) need new couplings...all the ones that came with the kit were cracked
2) turbos were blown...needed to rebuild them
3) one manifold was cracked...needed to try and locate a set. ordered through GTM, but he subsequently refunded the money-yet i have no reason why. so i just got them welded by a guy who does cast iron manifold repairs...only a band-aid until i can save up money to have SFR make me some manifolds
4) needed to buy new oil lines and oil pan.
Maybe its the case of buying used...maybe it's my luck? Who knows...but plan on the unexpected as Murphy's Law WILL happen...you just never know.
Moral of the story? once you buy the kit, don't be surprised/pissed off if you have unexpected things to buy just to install a stock-block kit. Add exponential costs as your power goals build up.
1) need new couplings...all the ones that came with the kit were cracked
2) turbos were blown...needed to rebuild them
3) one manifold was cracked...needed to try and locate a set. ordered through GTM, but he subsequently refunded the money-yet i have no reason why. so i just got them welded by a guy who does cast iron manifold repairs...only a band-aid until i can save up money to have SFR make me some manifolds
4) needed to buy new oil lines and oil pan.
Maybe its the case of buying used...maybe it's my luck? Who knows...but plan on the unexpected as Murphy's Law WILL happen...you just never know.
Moral of the story? once you buy the kit, don't be surprised/pissed off if you have unexpected things to buy just to install a stock-block kit. Add exponential costs as your power goals build up.
Last edited by usingthejohn; 10-05-2011 at 10:28 AM.
10-05-2011, 05:31 PM
#16
Now looking back I would have gone vortech and called it a day. Especially with the T-trims you can make a pretty good amount of hp.
Your car doesn't have that many miles on it so I wouldn't fret about the mileage, just do a leak down and regular maintenance ****.
The biggest benefit to a supercharger is the linear power progression, sudden torque increases can bend rods. Like Dik said they make less torque so that's a bonus. The oem rods are super thin and crappy looking. It doesn't surprise me at all that they break easily.
Also supercharged z's/g's tend to have a much crisper exhaust tone, and I prefer them to their tt/t counterparts.
Your car doesn't have that many miles on it so I wouldn't fret about the mileage, just do a leak down and regular maintenance ****.
The biggest benefit to a supercharger is the linear power progression, sudden torque increases can bend rods. Like Dik said they make less torque so that's a bonus. The oem rods are super thin and crappy looking. It doesn't surprise me at all that they break easily.
Also supercharged z's/g's tend to have a much crisper exhaust tone, and I prefer them to their tt/t counterparts.
10-06-2011, 04:46 AM
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yea thats one of the dwn sides to fi that i dont like... well i priced a tt system (jus bolted on) and tranny upgrades at my shop n grand total came to bout $12k... engine rebuild bout $2k...
been thinkin bout the miles on my car n seeing how they're still pretty low i think ill jus bolt on a s/c (since its more reliable than tt bolt on) till it blows then build n tt... thanks for all ur input fellas
been thinkin bout the miles on my car n seeing how they're still pretty low i think ill jus bolt on a s/c (since its more reliable than tt bolt on) till it blows then build n tt... thanks for all ur input fellas
10-06-2011, 09:48 AM
#18
that seems pretty low 12k...are you upgrading the tranny because you are running an automatic? you don't need to touch the tranny otherwise.
a short block is going cost you 2-3k at the very least + a turbo kit is another 5k, you are going to be over 12k quicker then you think.
a short block is going cost you 2-3k at the very least + a turbo kit is another 5k, you are going to be over 12k quicker then you think.
I missed the memo, here I thought the tune was the key to reliability 
