Best Short Block Builder?
10-18-2012, 02:45 PM
#22
5523 motorsports in the bottom of his sig
in cali i just remember someone else trying to hype up the shop and then i actually checked into it and laughed because of how they try to play off being innovative doing stuff other shops have been doing for years when they where not even officially a shop until around june 2011
in cali i just remember someone else trying to hype up the shop and then i actually checked into it and laughed because of how they try to play off being innovative doing stuff other shops have been doing for years when they where not even officially a shop until around june 2011
10-18-2012, 03:21 PM
#23
If the coolant by-pass mod is sooo good as you say... then why is it not used anymore? its not on the Z or on the flagship GTR? it must work too good right, and the extra thermstat is attached to the coolant OUTLET, how does that allow cold coolant into the block?...
look at Vinny Ten's website for pricing "additional cost for OE compenents" and his pricing is astronomical for mediocore builds even uses orange silicone on exhaust manifold gaskets, and I didn't say "bad" just not a good choice
You can argue head stud arguement all day long, but everyone should know that cast aluminum and steel expand at different rates when heated... the TTY bolts compensate for such differences. Head studs do not do this and something has to give
Dai's gymkhana car has the same engine in it... well technicly not "in" it it is out for building new front end, but the engine still runs, and HR is being built with a custom TT setup, engines that blew up were all stock engines with 650HP being ran through them... we can all agree that those engines were not expected to last long, the built one has
look at Vinny Ten's website for pricing "additional cost for OE compenents" and his pricing is astronomical for mediocore builds even uses orange silicone on exhaust manifold gaskets, and I didn't say "bad" just not a good choice
You can argue head stud arguement all day long, but everyone should know that cast aluminum and steel expand at different rates when heated... the TTY bolts compensate for such differences. Head studs do not do this and something has to give
Dai's gymkhana car has the same engine in it... well technicly not "in" it it is out for building new front end, but the engine still runs, and HR is being built with a custom TT setup, engines that blew up were all stock engines with 650HP being ran through them... we can all agree that those engines were not expected to last long, the built one has
theoretically it would be a pita to prove any difference, in fact i bet youd find that the structural integrity of the heads can take the difference of thermal expansion and still err the overall design/component coupling to yield a higher failure point than hr hs materials, let alone stud vs bolt.
scientifically/experimentally its clear that l19s work and have no serious issues.
10-18-2012, 05:53 PM
#25
that might be so str8 but these posts the past couple days point to the opposite unless he is allowing someone else to use his computer. unless he provides data where the different expansion rates caused a problem(i have not seen any such data on ANY platform and many use them, if hr or even arp2000 which is stronger then hr worked then l19's would have never been released) or actual thermal scans of a warmed up engine with and without pathfinder mod under WOT then its conjecture that ignores logic as well as what nissan themselves engineered since the other vq platforms where never designed to take the same amount of heat generation that the path finder was. towing is going to generate much more heat then anything else with the same engine cruising around.
wot or under decent load they will make the same since the z and g do make more power but its not going to sustain that heat generation like say even a 20 mile tow will.
its also very suspect since he apparently dosnt even know anything about a engine he built himself or a car for a big name customer, since i mention one car and he brought up a second car with a completely different engine and chassis that he had nothing to do with.
wot or under decent load they will make the same since the z and g do make more power but its not going to sustain that heat generation like say even a 20 mile tow will.
its also very suspect since he apparently dosnt even know anything about a engine he built himself or a car for a big name customer, since i mention one car and he brought up a second car with a completely different engine and chassis that he had nothing to do with.
Last edited by jerryd87; 10-18-2012 at 05:55 PM.
10-18-2012, 11:27 PM
#26
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Cosworth. Best engine builder out there for the masses. They are in F1 for a reason.
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...2&idproduct=89
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...0&idproduct=68
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...8&idproduct=52
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...nt%20tests.pdf
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...2&idproduct=89
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...0&idproduct=68
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...8&idproduct=52
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...nt%20tests.pdf
Last edited by supergoji; 10-18-2012 at 11:38 PM.
10-19-2012, 05:39 AM
#27
Hey Scotty - We have an advanced engine building program for the VQ and would love to earn your business. Our motors have been tested in a variety of environments and have been proven at over 1000whp. They are built in house by our engine builder, who was trained in North Carolina and has experience with Nascar cup motors. Everything is built exactly to our tested specs and assembled in our climate controlled clean room. Hope to work with you soon.
10-19-2012, 12:32 PM
#28
Scotty, I would talk to Hal about a motor and the needs... Between Eddie, Dustin and Hal, you are in good hands. Lots of happy customers with their motors and installs. They are a great group of guys that work very hard to earn and then retain their relationships.
10-19-2012, 03:58 PM
#30
Registered User
Agreed, head stud/bolt battle is hopeless!
Um Dai's FD car is an S13 with a stroked LS2 motor making alot of powers (I don't deal with this car it is just the car that Dai drives for FD (campaigned by a different shop) The Gymkhana car is an 06 350z that Dai owns and pays monies for, same built motor that was built for Abu Dabi (has HR head bolts in it too!)... I will tell you that I am against head studs for the reason of experience... I don't give to Fs about "the forum says this" I have built many engines for alot of high end customers that do not go on forums because of the nonsense, the engines that I have rebuilt that had studs in them there was deep grooves in the heads from the fire rings and are warped beyond .004 (throw away limit), I have never seen this kind of damage from useing head bolts
I will go on record as saying that if I was to build a 750hp and up I would use studs because, reliability is thrown out the window and dyno #s is what is wanted... no race car can maintain 750hp (unless it is a tube chassis car or drag race car thats been back-halved)
Oh and I am not trying to troll customers through a computer... you notice I did not even plug my self for "best short block builder" best is a matter of opinion like the stud/bolt arguement
For the people who ask "who is this guy and what does he know?" I was in the Navy for 5 years as an AM (aircraft structures mechanic) and have worked on cars my entire life (originaly from MOTOWN them cars break down all the time) and have earned the title of Nissan Master, So I also work on all the other Nissan Engines
Um Dai's FD car is an S13 with a stroked LS2 motor making alot of powers (I don't deal with this car it is just the car that Dai drives for FD (campaigned by a different shop) The Gymkhana car is an 06 350z that Dai owns and pays monies for, same built motor that was built for Abu Dabi (has HR head bolts in it too!)... I will tell you that I am against head studs for the reason of experience... I don't give to Fs about "the forum says this" I have built many engines for alot of high end customers that do not go on forums because of the nonsense, the engines that I have rebuilt that had studs in them there was deep grooves in the heads from the fire rings and are warped beyond .004 (throw away limit), I have never seen this kind of damage from useing head bolts
I will go on record as saying that if I was to build a 750hp and up I would use studs because, reliability is thrown out the window and dyno #s is what is wanted... no race car can maintain 750hp (unless it is a tube chassis car or drag race car thats been back-halved)
Oh and I am not trying to troll customers through a computer... you notice I did not even plug my self for "best short block builder" best is a matter of opinion like the stud/bolt arguement
For the people who ask "who is this guy and what does he know?" I was in the Navy for 5 years as an AM (aircraft structures mechanic) and have worked on cars my entire life (originaly from MOTOWN them cars break down all the time) and have earned the title of Nissan Master, So I also work on all the other Nissan Engines
Last edited by johnwigs; 10-19-2012 at 04:49 PM.
10-20-2012, 02:40 PM
#32
john i know for a fact dai drives the s13 for gymkhana because ive watched it, ive also seen him drive the 350 for formula d although he primarily uses it for time attack. ive NEVER seen that car in gymkhana. the reports are he blew the built engine and the car was down, if this is wrong im sorry i did not see it blow myself that is just the reports i was hearing.
ive never heard of anyone having issues with studs ever, not saying you havnt encountered them but my bet is it was likely people over heating the engine more then anything. you have experienced issues i have never seen unless the engine has been over heated. no i am not a nissan master tech but i have built many engines or assisted in builds, im from ne ohio originally that place is like racing central, it might not have as many big name tracks but they have some serious competitors there. i dont see why a daily cannot maintain 750 hp because here are plenty of people who do it, sure it might not be comfortable(my car is hot as **** in uniform but w/e i wanted fast not comfort) but thats not the question here.
my issue with your shop where people campaigning it like it was ground breaking and introduced so many new things when essentially its just stuff people have been doing for years before. some of your comments just defy everything engineers try to avoid as well(such as pathfinder mod, im not saying it increases cooling but there is 0 doubt it assist's in equalizing temps across all cylinders, ask chevy guys how important that is.)
you can disagree but theres no way i would attempt to torque hr bolts to the torque required to match the clamping force of studs at 90 ft lbs of torque, would have to sit down and do the math but its going to be around 120 or so ft lbs to account for the increased friction of additional moving threads. history has shown on this platform that using lesser fasteners cause headlift problems. head, main, and rod fasteners are definitely NOT the items to cheap out on.
again to both midz and umw, thats bs ive said it a million times and ill keep saying it, there is NOTHING magical about the vq you can have fi and reliability you simply have to go to a good shop which many are not. hopefully next weekend ill put my new clutch in and ill beat the crap out of mine with 0 worrys and the boost controller will go back up to 32 psi.
ive never heard of anyone having issues with studs ever, not saying you havnt encountered them but my bet is it was likely people over heating the engine more then anything. you have experienced issues i have never seen unless the engine has been over heated. no i am not a nissan master tech but i have built many engines or assisted in builds, im from ne ohio originally that place is like racing central, it might not have as many big name tracks but they have some serious competitors there. i dont see why a daily cannot maintain 750 hp because here are plenty of people who do it, sure it might not be comfortable(my car is hot as **** in uniform but w/e i wanted fast not comfort) but thats not the question here.
my issue with your shop where people campaigning it like it was ground breaking and introduced so many new things when essentially its just stuff people have been doing for years before. some of your comments just defy everything engineers try to avoid as well(such as pathfinder mod, im not saying it increases cooling but there is 0 doubt it assist's in equalizing temps across all cylinders, ask chevy guys how important that is.)
you can disagree but theres no way i would attempt to torque hr bolts to the torque required to match the clamping force of studs at 90 ft lbs of torque, would have to sit down and do the math but its going to be around 120 or so ft lbs to account for the increased friction of additional moving threads. history has shown on this platform that using lesser fasteners cause headlift problems. head, main, and rod fasteners are definitely NOT the items to cheap out on.
again to both midz and umw, thats bs ive said it a million times and ill keep saying it, there is NOTHING magical about the vq you can have fi and reliability you simply have to go to a good shop which many are not. hopefully next weekend ill put my new clutch in and ill beat the crap out of mine with 0 worrys and the boost controller will go back up to 32 psi.
Last edited by jerryd87; 10-20-2012 at 02:46 PM.
10-20-2012, 06:08 PM
#33
fwiw, I got offered a full time job working in a local nissans parts dept, and have met all the managers etc via talking about my build with them. I didn't see anyone there who knew anything about turbo vq's. They knew how to fix things, the assemblies etc, but nothing aftermarket. IMHO being a master tech doesn't really give you any real credit. Successfully building a big hp vq car does however. The more times successful, the more credit. I don't mean any offense by that, I'm just saying it how I see it in my eyes.
10-20-2012, 09:54 PM
#34
Registered User
I will admit that most dealership technicians are retards... I work with them all day! and the 5523 motorsports I wouldn't say "ground breaking" just we don't do the cheap way out (not saying anyone else does)... and other than Dai's gymkahana car we haven't had a Z in the shop for a while... alot of SR20 cars have been needing some love, B/S13s, G20s, even a MX5 miata!!! I know right!!!
Dais formula D car
http://www.motormavens.com/emAlbum/a...alken-copy.jpg
Dais Gymkhana car
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Feat...49_UeeSu-L.jpg
Dais formula D car
http://www.motormavens.com/emAlbum/a...alken-copy.jpg
Dais Gymkhana car
http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Feat...49_UeeSu-L.jpg
10-21-2012, 02:25 PM
#37
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I am the best short block builder.
and fyi, the coolant mod is bs. People that say they see lower temps on their logs are liars. The only way to drop the temps is at the radiator. It would drop temps in the combustion chambers which would INCREASE the temp of the coolant coming out of the head. So since the coolant temp sensor is right after the heads there should be an increase in logged temps from the increase in absorption of heat from the engine. If coolant temps at the back of the heads goes DOWN then that means there is less energy transfer and the combustion temps are getting higher. I don't give a crap what coolant temps are doing, i care about combustion temps. Pyrometer on each cylinder would be the best way to tell if the cooling mod works. ALso seeing the increase in coolant temps after the head would be an indicator that heat is being drawn from the heads into the coolant.
and fyi, the coolant mod is bs. People that say they see lower temps on their logs are liars. The only way to drop the temps is at the radiator. It would drop temps in the combustion chambers which would INCREASE the temp of the coolant coming out of the head. So since the coolant temp sensor is right after the heads there should be an increase in logged temps from the increase in absorption of heat from the engine. If coolant temps at the back of the heads goes DOWN then that means there is less energy transfer and the combustion temps are getting higher. I don't give a crap what coolant temps are doing, i care about combustion temps. Pyrometer on each cylinder would be the best way to tell if the cooling mod works. ALso seeing the increase in coolant temps after the head would be an indicator that heat is being drawn from the heads into the coolant.
10-21-2012, 03:16 PM
#38
yah im not saying it cools better im saying the way its set up and looking at it and coolant flow it should provide a more even cooling by allowing better flow from the block vs just the heads. my temps are perfect with my mishimoto radiator even with no heater core oil temps are always good and never get high either so im not worried about my bearings. just did my 4k oil change so im on the every 2500 mile oil changes now
10-21-2012, 05:28 PM
#39
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yah im not saying it cools better im saying the way its set up and looking at it and coolant flow it should provide a more even cooling by allowing better flow from the block vs just the heads. my temps are perfect with my mishimoto radiator even with no heater core oil temps are always good and never get high either so im not worried about my bearings. just did my 4k oil change so im on the every 2500 mile oil changes now
If it's doing it's job it will increase coolant temps. The fact that mine have always stayed the same proves that the coolant temps aren't really affected by it but I would be willing to bet money that the EGTs from each cylinder are now almost identical when before the rear cylinders were probably hotter.
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