bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Good lord … more ‘two steps forward, one (potential) step back’ …

Had a little time to dig into the car … Nothing crazy but figured I’d get into the compression test done and hoping nothing is crazy bad … sorta feeling like one cylinder is gonna be in the basement … especially when I did my comrpession test prior to turning the key after my rebuild as I know I had an exhaust valve that was every so slightly not sealing.

From Post #1371 / 5-8-2022 / 0miles on rebuild

1. 105psi
3. 102psi
5. 95psi

2. 100psi
4. 92psi
6. 108psi


But they were better than I expected (although I may re-run them and try to be a little more precise with my numbers).

10-20-2022 / 175miles on rebuild
1. 103psi
3. 103psi
5. 101psi

2. 105psi
4. 99psi
6. 115psi

Everyone is probably thinking I’m batshit for thinking these are good but factor in 9:1 pistons, I’m 200miles into break-in, and I know that I cut my rings a little fatter than spec, and if it wasnt obvious these are on a cold engine. Also I dont think these pistons ever produced more than 120psi of compression.

Downside of the evening - cylinder #2 had oil in the spark plug tube … I know I spilled a ton of oil in it but I dont think that’s the reason … So I may re-seal my spark plug tubes …

As Renfro mentioned, I’ll probably do another break-in period, keep boost down, keep RPMs down and get some miles on it … maybe use a high quality mineral based oil after another round of break-in and run another compression test and see how things come in…

OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

Did you use Break in Oil when you were Racing? I just use Convensional Oil for Break in. Run 20 mins, Change oil and Filter & Run 250-300 miles easy driving, constantly changing RPM, Then Full Synthetic and Break in Done.

How did you Set Bearing Cleanances?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Break-in procedure:
1. Inexpensive convention 10w40 oil for 4 or 5minutes of start/idle time to flush the system and check for leaks. Used an inexpensive oil filter (supertech?) to reduce oil flow restriction. drained/inspected oil, changed filter.

2. Filled with Driven BR40 break-in oil, with a fram filter for about 150miles - 1st 20 to 30 miles were pretty easy and then starting taking rpms, boost, load, vacuum load and got maybe 150miles on this break-in oil.

3. Drained oil, changed filter (to mobile1) and filled with another 6.5quarts of Driven BR40 break in oil … ran airstrip attack - on my 5th or 6th pass the knock was prevelent.

clearances were set between .0025 and .003 (if I remember correctly) - slightly wider than OEM.

I’m going to do another round of break-in oil with not as much load / not as many RPMs on the engine and switch to conventional for final break in.

I’m also hoping to establish a trend line of miles : compression of a fresh engine …

OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

I would stay away from Break in Oil all together. Never Use Break in Oil for Racing. That stuff is very Abrasive!

How did you Set Bearing Clearance? plastic gauge ? that stuff sucks

Where did the particles in the pan come from? Bearings?

10/40 weight is to thin for those Clearances 15/50 would be better. Do you have an Upgraded Oil Pump line Boundary? Do you have a Billet Gurdle?

What was you Ignition Timing? Did you have enough Fuel? What Fuel? How bad was the Knock/Detination?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I hear what you’re saying Tim - On their website they say it’s acceptable to use for racing and from the break-in procedure that I am following (mix of HPA, Driven/Total Seal, and a pretty good video put out by MA Performance) they say that you have to get some load and revs on the engine - so it made sense to do two break-in phases with the second being aggressive (high RPMs / boosted) driving.





Clearances were measured with micrometers and then verified / sanity checked with plasti-gauge.


According to Driven - both talking to their techs and a chart they put out 10w-40 was the right oil.


Boundary’s billet pump, martenware treated, and billet backplate

Dynosty’s girdle

12 to 14 degrees of timing at redline/14psi of boost

AFRs werent an issue and I was running about a 1:1 ratio of C16 : 91oct blend (approximately 5gallons of each). I wasnt getting any knock outside/above my knock threshold.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Got the car up, fluids drained, and engine out …

Everything came out pretty easy and was able to get everything out, on the stand, and partially disassembled in two evenings - Surprisingly no single bearing was obliterated … but I did have 3 compromised bearings.

I do think this lends toward OMZ thoughts that the break in wasnt suitable for how I was pushing the car … I say this because I did not have any bearing material in the first break-in oil change and the car was driving normal up to taking it to Kansas.

Two of the bearings were pushed into the margins of the crank shaft journals - so it was likely only a matter of time until they would grenade themselves. Aside from these two bearing shells they all came out … some bad scorching on the driveshaft (might be able to have it buffed out?? We’ll see, I wont immediately trash this crank). Luckily no damage to the rods.

I opened up the main gallery to sample oil, opened up a valve cover, and gravity drained oil from the crank case and I saw a little bearing material but it wasnt significant - made a judgement call to not break down the entire engine (maybe a fatal flaw? Not sure but I’ll be flushing a few times on my initial runs).

Cleaned up the new crank, had to remove the AT bushing, took measurements and they were within spec wtih a few being a less than 1/1000” out.

Ran measurements on the rods and they were sorta all over the map but within a few ten-thousandths of OEM spec - I dont want to freak out over it knowing that I am using a 1/1000” caliper and had to make a judgement call on the ten-thousandth place - So I tried to use 1/5th (.0002 increments).

For the archive:

Crank Mains (spec 2.3603” to 2.3612”):
1. 2.3594” (low 9)
2. 2.3596” (low 7)
3. 2.3610” (spec)
4. 2.3600” (low 3)

Crank Rods (spec 2.0455” to 2.0462”):
1. 2.0472” (high 10)
2. 2.0472” (high 10)
3. 2.0446” (low 9)
4. 2.0450” (low 5)
5. 2.0446” (low 9)
6. 2.0448” (low 7)

Rods (spec 2.1654” to 2.1659”):
1. 2.1652” (low 2)
2. 2.1660” (high 1)
3. 2.1658” (spec)
4. 2.1660” (high 1)
5. 2.1650” (low 4)
6. 2.1650” (low 4)


with the mains coming in a little low I went with ACL standard oil bearing clearance main bearings (.0786”) and made a judgement call to put standard oil bearing clearance bearings in. With ACL and King being out I’ve found a few sets of Mahle bearings (.0571” check??) and decided to give them a go. I did check with plasti-gauge and the rods came in thinner than the .002” but fatter than than .003” (OEM spec is .0013” to .0023”) so I felt good moving forward. Mains were right around the .0015” mark (OEM spec .0014 to .0018). The plastigauge gave me the warm fuzzy feelings to move forward.

Did two rounds of 45 and 50 ft-lbs on the rod bolts (didnt feel like doing the stretch method - and last time I did it they were at 45ft-lbs). Did three increments of main cap torques and a two rounds of checks and called it good.

I am going to be abandoning the current upper oil pan and I have a few replacements on the parts shelf and welded a -12 fitting on the front of the pan (for the turbo drain). I’d like to power wash it before it goes back on.

Next will be to reset timing, reinstall primary timing chain and reinstall front timing chain case. After that I can put the upper oil pan on.

Other things to accomplish while the car is up in the air:

1. I’d like to switch to -3 AN steel braided brake lines … the OEM lines (with what I’ve done with the car are obnoxiouly in the way and if I could tuck brake lines out of the way it would really simplify and clean things up. Not sure if this is a bad move? I probably need to do more research (Open to opinions here too).

2. Looking to clean up the area behind the heads … My initial thought is to cnc coolant flanges, weld on -12 fittings on a 1” diameter extension tube (about ~2” ) and run two 3/8” hoses down by the transmission bell housing… The extension tubes would take the coolant pressure sensor, coolant temp sensor, pathfinder cooling mod line, and possibly the turbo coolant return line(may delete the coolant turbo lines - I have a strategy). And I may relocate the electric water pump towards the rear of the car.

3. I think I’m going to retire the harmonic dampening pulley … time for a new one.

4. Swapping over to a fuel cell … wanted to do this earlier but ran out of time.

5. I want to cut my own lower oil pan (have a few ideas for this - more to come).


Other future considerations:
Thinking about going with AEM coils … but I have 100 different things before doing this
I have a few thoughts on a revised intake (have some fun thoughts and would love to do a side by side by side by side comparison with all the intakes on the market).
Carbon fiber radiator air duct
Engine harness rebuild / PDM Swap

OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

I see when they say, I would never use it at the track.

Are they going to Pay for your Motor? NO!

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

absolutely not!

and I’d never ask them too … this is my game and my journey - I dont want anything that I didnt earn!

Tim - what did you set your rod bearing and main bearing clearances to?

What did you use for break-in oil?

(You may have told me this already and/or it may be in your thread … I appreciate your insight/experience)

OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

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OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

When you look at my motor spec, look at just how Tight My Journals (only .0002" from large to Small) compaired to your's. Your's are So Far Out of Nissan's Street Motor Spec and should be much Tighter for a High Performance Motor. IN Nissan SPEC is not Good Enough! Most of yours are not even in that!

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Appreciate the insight and information Tim -

Been pecking away at the car - really only have had a few hours each night as it has been cold over the past few weeks.

Got the engine back in the car, oil lines/filter hooked up, coolant lines hooked up, harness connected, filled oil but didnt fill coolant yet -

Im trying to clean up the back side of the engine/heads and there is just some much going on there and eliminated the OEM hard pipe. To replace it, I cut two flanges to mount to the heads, welded ~2” 1.25” aluminum tube, and added a -12 flange. Further - welded in a -6 for my pathfinder cooling mod mod, a -8 for the turbo coolant, an additional -8 for filling/bleeding/burping, an 1/8” NPT for coolant pressure, and had to tap a piece of aluminum for the OEM coolant temp sensor (I think it’s 1/2” NPT?? And I didnt have that in my stock).

With it being excessively cold I tried to give the RTV (engine / oil pan / coolant flanges) much more time to cure-up beyond the 24hrs in their instructions. I also ran two 65watt flood light bulbs under the engine to generate some heat through the days/nights and put a large sheet of plastic on top of the engine and closed the hood to keep as much heat in the engine bay as possible.

Installed new injectors (ID17s) and reconfigured the tune in the Link…at 52psi they are running close to 2100cc. I pressurized the fuel system and had a leak on the outlet side of my drivers side rail. The swivel section of the fitting is not sealing … I have a few ideas on re-vamping my return line (which I’ll look to do over the next few months - not a huge priority). I did have another -6 90degree fitting and installed and it’s good to go.

Hope to get coolant filled this week and get it started. The strategy will be to run conventional oil for the first 10-15miles to flush the system and will then resume break-in with some light/medium revs with conventional oil.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Had a productive evening - did some tidy’ing and clean-up on the car. One benefit of having this electric water pump is the ability to fill / bleed the coolant system without running the engine … so got the coolant filled and did a few 5min to 10 min cycles and was able to pretty much get it 100% filled.

Did a quick oil level check (was fine), disconnected the fuel pump relay, hooked up a mechanical oil pressure gauge to the sandwich plate and did a two 7seconds worth of cranking and I saw no movement on my gauge … I do recall that I did not pack any lubricant / vasoline into the oil pump before it went back on the engine…Pondered a minute and disconnected the oil cooler (relocation) hose between the pump and the filter and backfilled the pump with oil … took about 3 ounces and I reconnected and saw oil pressure with a 10 to 15 seconds of crank time (over 2 5-7seconds intervals). Did 4 or 5 more cycles to further push oil.

Also had a flood light under the car checking for oil and coolant leaks and saw nothing … will get it up and started tomorrow and if everything goes as planned it’ll be out on the road…

A little update - for some reason my new computer is not connecting to the ECU … my old one is connecting just fine…

I was able to start the car with the 1700cc injectors (scaled up to 1893cc/min @52psi) without modifying my tune (with the 1000cc injectors). But the car would not stay running for more than 3 seconds or so.

I used the old computer to adjust my master fuel trim (sorta like Uprev’s K factor) and this helped quite a bit but dwell times and short pulse width adders were still old values … the car started up and ran … I only ran it for a few minutes to get fluids cycled (so I could check for leaks) and no leaks and nothing crazy.

I updated the tune file with the correct injector values and idled the car for about 10minutes, keeping an eye on oil pressure, temps, rpms, etc … and as it relates to another active thread at 190degrees ECT my oil pressure only dropped down to 35psi to 40psi of pressure.

Did some research and check connection setups and it was a baud rate error got it fixed and the new computer is connecting.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Needed axles for the g35 and was considering the z1 370z axle & wheel bearing upgrade but seeing that I wont be pushing tons of power on that chassis I decided to take the axles off the white z (which have 70k miles and in other wise great shape) and put them on the g35 and then order the z1 kit.

Kit arrives today and I gotta get them installed ASAP as I gotta start moving stuff out of this garage.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

the white z has been sitting as I’ve had an issue with the Link ECU and starting/idle’ing the car. The issue is, you start the car and it immediately climbs up to 3k RPMs and stays there … can’t figure out why. We dont think its a TB issue or a sensor issue.

Link has been great thus far with technical support despite not being able to fix the problem. I was able to send the ECU back to Link for testing as they warranty their products for life! I couldnt believe this. One catch is that if the ECU is ok than it’s $100 to cover expenses.

Well, got word that the ECU was fine and thus the problem is on my end.

If there is any good news its that the g35 is up and going and I can cross test the Link in the G and see how it does.

Im holding tight (on the z) while I finish the g35 and overall things are going well.

GreyZ

iTrader: (2)

In my experience, uncontrolled idle rpm has two options. Too much idle air or too much idle timing. It should be pretty easy to check the timing, but 3k is even a bit much to blame on timing. That leaves too much air as the option. Either a vacuum leak or the TB is remaining open more than it should. Since youre map tuned you should be able to monitor the TB with the pipe off and see if you have excessive TB opening at idle.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I was actually relieved when Link emailed me (and it was my rep) and he told me it checked-out fine. And then the wheels started turning on ‘ok, maybe the ECU is doing what it’s told’.

The **** thing is that I have loaded multiple tunes from multiple setups (albeit, I’m on e85 now) and possibly??? My fueling is ****ed up? Not 100% sure. Dont have the bandwidth to dive into it right now.

I will definately try the charge-pipe off option and see how it goes.

My other thought is to un-do everything and put it back on.

As I type this, and I can think of a vac leak right off the batt on one of my 1/4” aluminum lines … I tore it open but it’s pre-TB so I really dont think this is it.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Smart smart smart Grey, you are…

the feeling of nervously cautious is all over me at the moment …

I appologize if this doesnt make sense …

Got the Link back hooked up and I’ve had a issues in the past where I dont have voltage on Aux 9 / Aux 10 (which are the two 12volt power supplies coming off the ECU).

But the ECU tested good and a little further scratching found that ECU Pin 104 supplies voltage from the Throttle Control Relay and further powers Pin 104 and Pin 3 voltage to the ECU for the aforementioned Aux 9 / 10. Jumped into the IPDM and have voltage at the fuse and then at the two relay posts but not to IPDM Pin 36 and Pin 40 (which essentially are the two downstream pins on the throttle control relay.

Used two 10amp fuses to connect power (thus pointing the finger to the relay **** the bed) and this supplied power to the ECU and to the TB.

Still having a batshit crazy throttle issue … started the car and essentially the TB was 100% open…I probably hit 6k rpms before I was able to turn the key off

I have a pretty custom setup on the laptop where I can see just about everything I need to see for 90% of the things I need to do - to this effect:

So, I can push the gas pedal and I have complete and logical movement on my two APP circuits but it does not translate to the TB like it should (meaning, no matter what the position of the pedal, the TB is showing 100%). I did Link’s TB relearn / recalibration process a few times but nothing changed. Tried the throttle body from the g35 and no change.

Link also has a significantly better OBD2 style error system where they give you a fault code and then point you in the direction of whats going on. Its far more logical than OBD. So I kept getting codes related to the TPS Sensor. Which is (as I learned) different than throttle body recalibration.

And I noticed that my TPS Sensor (main) Closed and Open were .68volts … which struck me as wrong and when you look at the 2nd TPS sensor they have the more logical 4.5volts and .7volts (above).

There is a fail-safe built in where you cannot mess with the TB unless you disable the E-throttle. So I disabled E-Throttle which allowed me to get into Link’s TPS re-calibration process. Which I never knew about and is unbelievably cool. You start the process and it is an automated sequence where Link does a process of opening, closing, opening slow, closing fast and it recalibrates the TPS sensors.

Closed out of menu and reopened and my TPS sensor values were much more logical.


Exited out, depressed the pedal and the APP sensors and the TB (TPS sensors) were slightly off but were working like you’d expect.

One more curveball, Link allows you to tell the throttle body what %% you want it to open based on your APP sensors (in this case APP Main). Meaning you could say at 20% APP I want 50% TB, at 50% APP I want 100% TB.

And I did go into this menu and restrict the TB opening due to my earlier incident where the RPMs spiked. I matched the TB opening %% identical to the APP input and everything was great! Fixed!



So, nervously, I started up the car and surer-than-**** the RPMs climbed to about 3k RPMs. I went into my fueling and took my VE values down to 20% VE (in just the low load / low RPMs) and attempted to start the car…It did not start. Bumped everything up to 30% VE and it ‘wanted’ to start bud didnt … bumped them up to 40% VE and the car started and idled around 1000rpm. I suspect I was over-fueling my low load portion of the map ... which is really good becuase I was running out of fueling last time I had the car out.

Hit save, shut the car down, and called it a night.

Still need to figure out why I cant keep a functioning relay in the IPDM but that's a tomorrow problem.

GreyZ

iTrader: (2)

This screen right here is the dead givaway that it is the position sensor on the throttle body is haveing some sort of wiring issue. TPS sensors always cross. Meaning one will read low and one will read high. The voltage will cross at ~50% opeining and then at 100% open the voltages will be inverted. Every oem ecu has a fail safe that if these values are not inverted or are more than a few percent off of the APP sensor values the car will shut off and throw a TPS code. Glad it got sorted out. I would blame the error with the IPDM on a wire that is scratched or worn, or a plug where the individual pin in contacting an adjacent pin.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

Its something with the relay and/or the IPDM itself …
there is an astricts in Section PG that says the relays are built in and I’ve wondered if this means they are not servicable? At some point in time I want to jump over to Link’s PDM. It’s all good.

I’d need a video but Link’s live data with the two APPs working like they should and the TB not moving was the first clue…secretly love this stuff secretly dont

OldManZ350

iTrader: (23)

You have a ton of stuff to read...... I mainly looked at the Link screen shots..... I may have missed what your doing.

Don't know what your problems are but I can Tell you, You will NEVER get your car to IDLE Right with the TB Target Table at 1% in the "0" ROW.

That is just fine in the RPM Range above 2500-3000, but in the 0, ,500, 1000, and 1500 Colums you need to more like 6% and you will need to play with it.

With car running after full warm it, you need to watch the table and see how it behaves and play with that Area of the map.

Also, Ignition Time in the Area plays a Big Part in Quality of Idle. And ofcource every car will be a bit different

TimRod