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You have a ton of stuff to read...... I mainly looked at the Link screen shots..... I may have missed what your doing.
Don't know what your problems are but I can Tell you, You will NEVER get your car to IDLE Right with the TB Target Table at 1% in the "0" ROW.
That is just fine in the RPM Range above 2500-3000, but in the 0, ,500, 1000, and 1500 Colums you need to more like 6% and you will need to play with it.
With car running after full warm it, you need to watch the table and see how it behaves and play with that Area of the map.
Also, Ignition Time in the Area plays a Big Part in Quality of Idle. And ofcource every car will be a bit different
TimRod
Thank you Tim! I appreciate the insight and guidance -
Im mostly looking to get up and running (and get this throttle body issue ironed out) but those suggestions will help regardless.
A little bit of an update … been busy with many endeavours and the white z has sorta taken a back seat.
One reason is that I am having IPDM issues where I am not feeding 12volts to the two lines after the relay and lead to the ECU and subsequently feed the motor of the throttle body. With only one throttle body motor circuit getting voltage it’s giving the ecu hell. I had Link test the ECU (which was $100) but they lifetime warranty all their stuff and they verified that the ecu was functioning correctly.
I picked up a few used IPDMs / swapped out relays and it did not solve the issue and I was pretty fed-up with it. Sat on it for a few days and decided to yank out all the remaining electronics in the car and go full PDM. Im definately intimidated by the CAN bus and programable logic but I’m happy to learn it.
I will be going with Link’s Razor and I believe I need two setups.
I also picked up a G4x ECU and I was going to run the G4x in the g35 and keep the G4+ in the z. But as I’m learning the PDM may be between suited with the G4x. Another objective will be getting as much on the CAN bus as I absolutely much as I can.
I will likely have to run a keypad at some point but would like to maintain the OEM signals, lights, wipers along with keeping the OEM braking & traction control features - I dont know how much I can keep but thats the goal
If I go with the G4x than I believe I will need to rebuild the engine harness.
Next steps will be to remove the cabin harnesses and I going to get everything labelled and documented and determine what needs to be carried over.
You Over Think Things and make it way more Complicated than it is........ There is Options for 2 Add-On Wire Looms from LINK.
Originally Posted by bealljk
A little bit of an update … been busy with many endeavours and the white z has sorta taken a back seat.
One reason is that I am having IPDM issues where I am not feeding 12volts to the two lines after the relay and lead to the ECU and subsequently feed the motor of the throttle body. With only one throttle body motor circuit getting voltage it’s giving the ecu hell. I had Link test the ECU (which was $100) but they lifetime warranty all their stuff and they verified that the ecu was functioning correctly.
I picked up a few used IPDMs / swapped out relays and it did not solve the issue and I was pretty fed-up with it. Sat on it for a few days and decided to yank out all the remaining electronics in the car and go full PDM. Im definately intimidated by the CAN bus and programable logic but I’m happy to learn it.
I will be going with Link’s Razor and I believe I need two setups.
I also picked up a G4x ECU and I was going to run the G4x in the g35 and keep the G4+ in the z. But as I’m learning the PDM may be between suited with the G4x. Another objective will be getting as much on the CAN bus as I absolutely much as I can.
I will likely have to run a keypad at some point but would like to maintain the OEM signals, lights, wipers along with keeping the OEM braking & traction control features - I dont know how much I can keep but thats the goal
If I go with the G4x than I believe I will need to rebuild the engine harness.
Next steps will be to remove the cabin harnesses and I going to get everything labelled and documented and determine what needs to be carried over.
I want to get as much as I can off analog and onto CAN. The PDMs optimally need just about everything on CAN to operate optimally.
Im not a huge fan of the OEM engine bay harness and my current harness is in “C” condition so I will happily take this opportunity to rebuild it with higher quality wiring & new connectors. It’ll also really clean-up the cabin of the car.
A little update - have had some time to plan-out / lay-out / construct the engine bay harness and tinker around with the Link PDMs.
In hindsight, it’s was wise to do these at the same time as the ECU has some crossover that’ll save power outputs on the PDM. For instance (and I may change my mind on this one) I can run a signal to a relay for the twin AEM400 pumps rather than take two 25amp outputs - I lose the intelligence with the PDM but it’s not the end of the world. I am going to free-up one of the 25amp circuits to run the cooling fan by running a relay signal to the back of the car. I can power the Link ‘rescue sensors’ from either the PDM or the ECU - both have ups and downs?
The plan will be to mount the ECU near the OEM location and mount the PDMs there as well. I want to run a short (~36”) lead of wires from the ECU to a disconnect located under the triple meter. Utilizing deatsch connectors for each specific cluster of circuits. I think this will be cleaner an will be easier to trouble shoot if needed in the future. The OEM engine bay harness is difficult to feed through the wire port and it’s a huge mess.
I was able to eliminate approximately 15 circuits from the car which helped clean the wire harness up. I did a deep dive on the OEM schematics, Link’s documentation, some creative PDF’ing, and used autocad to lay everything out.
I have not sleeved it yet but I am likely going to use split nylong braid and have have group them by connectors - nothing wildly fancy and will be far less time comsuming.
Next step will be to incorporate the PDMs - I have the PDMs setup and ready to go with very basic logic but will likely enhance this as I get more comfortable with the units. Its rather complex and can be frustrating but its pretty sweet when it works like you expect.
Massive Thank You to Rinzlark for helping me find OEM pin part numbers for ordering!
Some pictures of the madness
Some ‘befores’ of the trainwreck that is the OEM dash-wiring and engine bay harnesses.
I love me some autocad and drafted the engine bay harness in autocad and used the FSM to ensure my circuits are correct. Added the Link g4x into the sketch to layout how everything will sit.
This is just about the entire engine bay harness. For what it’s worth I was able to eliminate 25 circuits. I did my best to make this as ‘module’ as possible even when/where it meant running additional wiring - such as individual power supplies and individual grounds rather than running single 12v power supply or 5v sensor supply. These power sources will also line-up with the Link pdms.
OEM CAN is red & blue and I am swapping over to green and white to match more of the industry standard. This is 18awg wire where most CAN setups are running 20awg or 22awg. I chose 18awg to make it as robust as possible.
This is the throttle body circuit with sheilded wiring and it was a massive pain in the dick … thats all Im going to say…
Link rescue sensors - these will be on existing inputs and I am re-using most of the wiring from before. I will likely redo some of the sensor connectors but it’s a low priority right now.
I did bundle the VTC solenoids, cam/crank position sensors, and IAT sensor into one loom - seemed logical
APP Sensor setup
Incase it’s not apparent - running each circuit fromt he ECU to a checkpoint, which will be located where the OEM heater core would be, and will have a disconnect for each set of circuits. Obviously, the wires will be wrapped with nylon braided split loom.
The OEM harness under the dash will be the next challenge. I will need to maintain the ABS Control unit and the ABS Module along with many other circuits under the dash. The plan will be to keep them in place, eliminate anything I can, and provide power to each via the PDM. I dont anticipate revising much of the OEM wiring as it’s in great condition and I dont know that I can easily find OEM connectors. But some items will be replaced (clutch switches, brake switches, CAN, headlghts/brake lights, signals, etc.
I was able to break-down the harness and determine each wire’s start, finish, color, guage and have it roughly depicted … and the plan will be to get it in autocad, determiner which circuites can be eliminated, which ones will be maintained, and which ones will be revised
Been working on the Z on and off as my schedule permits … and a big push was the 2024 Slush event at Pikes Peak International Raceway. Actually got both cars up and running but did not drive them in any events as neither were tuned and they have small issues I’m working on … I was able to get a garage spot for the event to showcase EverythingVQ and despite the stress of getting the cars down to the event, hauling parts/merch/cars, supplies, etc it was actually a really good event and I had a very good time. I’ll look to do it again next round.
Otherwise some very good progress on the car - From 10,000ft
Got the Link PDMs 100% installed and programmed - I really like them and they are light-years ahead of the Nissan IPDM - everything from how customized you can be with the programming, how consistent they are, and how you can monitor your power levels on any given circuit. I have them installed on the car and in a very basic manner … nothing wildly complicated and simply activated with the key-on/start/run positions. I’d like to get them a little more advanced but I am good with how they are now.
got the new Link G4x installed and it is a little more sophisticated compared to the Link G4+ and I am learning as I go … things are structured about the same but there are some changes in the layout.
Link has an inherient flaw with the G5 software (which powers the G4x) in that you can communicated all day long with the car on (but not running) and as soon as you start the car, likely the ignition coils create electromagnetic interference and it disrupts the signal transfer between the ECU and laptop, typically freezes the software and kicks you out. Theres a fix that Link can do to modify the filtering on the signal cable but requires you to send the ECU back to New Zealand. There is also a fix where you can add ferrite beads to the USB cord … 1 bead does help but it didnt really help me much but did some research on how and why electromagnetic interference impacts signal and came across a video where they tested multiple ferrite beads on a test-cable and the optimal number was 7 beads … so I tried it and it works for my setup - I have not been able to disrupt the signal through EMI as of today (knock on wood). The ECU functions 100% normal and the work around is to setup datalogging parameters, run the car, and then download your logs and make changes while the car is not running.
I am contemplating elimating most of all the OEM wiring and running the car completely off the G4x and the PDMs … still working out the logistics if/how I can do it but it will really simplify things … I’ll lose some of the OEM functions (speedometer/dash, OEM ABS, etc) … but we will see.
Been doing more weight reduction and essentially replacing and/or removing unused/unnessesary OEM wiring … Obviously some circuits must remain but I have transitioned them over to tefzel wiring.
Further, I’ve never really been a fan of the batty turbo kit I have on the car for a few reasons - mostly bc its my own 20/hr welding and it is stupid heavy. Also, it looks like it should spool up wayyyyyy faster than it does … and to be fair, I start making boost at 3k to 3500rpms but I feel I can do better. So I’m redoing the turbo kit to a log style manifold and I am going to slighty reposition the turbo.
Been tinkering with titanium welding and I may do a traditional rear-exit exhaust … more to come.
I purchased two sets of AEM dumbcoils (3wire) that I want to swap into the G & Z … probably will wait until both are up and running 100%.
might I suggest trying the red R8 coils, they are cost effective and I have had good results with mine on the Z.
As for the turbo spooling, my solution was to use a twin scroll turbine housing and force all the exhaust into the small scroll to speed up spool. Then I drive the main scroll off a large wastegate using it like a “spool valve”, my idea was to use the link g4 ecu to control the solenoid that drives the main wastegate (boost control) and then an AEM truboost X to drive the solenoid controling the secondary wastegate (spool control) that way you can fine tune the PSI needed to keep the turbo spooled
a completely separate solution could be to use a ball bearing turbo that spools fast but I’m not familiar with your current turbo selection so this might not be an option
Last edited by BlackRinzler; 06-08-2024 at 01:35 AM.
might I suggest trying the red R8 coils, they are cost effective and I have had good results with mine on the Z.
As for the turbo spooling, my solution was to use a twin scroll turbine housing and force all the exhaust into the small scroll to speed up spool. Then I drive the main scroll off a large wastegate using it like a “spool valve”, my idea was to use the link g4 ecu to control the solenoid that drives the main wastegate (boost control) and then an AEM truboost X to drive the solenoid controling the secondary wastegate (spool control) that way you can fine tune the PSI needed to keep the turbo spooled
a completely separate solution could be to use a ball bearing turbo that spools fast but I’m not familiar with your current turbo selection so this might not be an option
Appreciate the input - not a fan of the R8 coil swap … I based my decision (concerning the AEMs) off a few things. First and foremost this test which I believe was done fairly / accurately / without bias.
The R8 coils have less output than OEM.
Im also a self-admittedly AEM fan boy … this is mostly because I rarely have issues with their products and the few times I have had issues their customer support is top tier.
I already bought the AEM coils and cost wasnt a huge concern at this point in time - sorta the buy once cry once mentality.
I do use a twin scroll turbo/flange but the root of the problem is I have too much air volume in the exhaust system between the exhaust valves and the turbo … I have six Sch 10 1.5” (1.68” ID diameter) per cylinder which flows fine but does not optimize my exhaust velocity … with that being said, I’m well into the refabrication process of the new headers. I’ll do an update shortly.
I can appreciate how you have your system plumbed - it seems complicated and not the way the system is designed to work. Clever to say the least. I am happy for you that it is working the way you intend.
The turbo is a garrett gtx 4294r but i have run a CX Racing X Series 3584 single scroll on this setup too. Spooled up a little quicker but not where I want it to be.
I am contemplating elimating most of all the OEM wiring and running the car completely off the G4x and the PDMs … still working out the logistics if/how I can do it but it will really simplify things … I’ll lose some of the OEM functions (speedometer/dash, OEM ABS, etc) … but we will see.
Been doing more weight reduction and essentially replacing and/or removing unused/unnessesary OEM wiring … Obviously some circuits must remain but I have transitioned them over to tefzel wiring.
Further, I’ve never really been a fan of the batty turbo kit I have on the car for a few reasons - mostly bc its my own 20/hr welding and it is stupid heavy. Also, it looks like it should spool up wayyyyyy faster than it does … and to be fair, I start making boost at 3k to 3500rpms but I feel I can do better. So I’m redoing the turbo kit to a log style manifold and I am going to slighty reposition the turbo.
For what it’s worth spent a few nights removing the BCM, AC Amp, ABS Module and it’s associated wiring … was somewhat systematic in that I would remove / unplug stuff and start the car to ensure starting/running the car was not reliant on any of those items and everything worked like you’d expect. One downside is that I am losing the OEM gauge cluster (which I actually love) and I will need to figure out a dash assembly of sorts. I am running the AEM gauges but there will be items that I want to monitor beyond what they display. I like the idea of the aftermarket gauge cluster but I cant immediately find something I am in love with. My alternate solution is to purchase a HDMI based monitor and run it off the laptop as a 2nd monitor and configure it how I like. I bought a 5” x 4” smaller variant and then a 12” x 4” as well … gonna explore these options.
Above and beyond this there is a significantly less amount of wires under the dash area.
Spent a week or so dreaming up what my next set of headers will look like and have failed on my first design as I cannot get my angles how I like them and still make them fabricate’able … tried twice and both times it wasnt within the tolerances I like and I was getting some unacceptable heat warpage … I also received some constructive critism from a few car-buddy mentors that eventually sunk in.
heres what my first attempt brought:
Second attempt is a little different and more emphasis on easy fabrication, a traditional 3-1 collector and upsizing my pipe work after the merge. My goal will be to weld this in complete runner sections and then welding them together and then to the flange. I have two potential customers that want this same kit and I may get it in fusion and send the runners off for professional bending and notching. The **** thing is, most dont use schedule 10 1.5” pipe (1.9” OD) so I may just bump up to 2” OD / .125” wall pipe … will need to figure something out with my flanges as they are 1.94” ID insets.
07-25-2023, 06:52 AM
