Well, a second set of injectors seemed like a very good solution till I saw this PHOTO! Where the heII would I put them?

 

depends how many you are talking about

 

6 !

 

why so many? a bit overkill no?

 

Combustion efficiency, safety, HP. I was under the understanding that 6 additional sequential injectors was the only way to go on this and have everything. Incorrect?

I have an E-Manage and can drive 2 additional injectors right now however everyone has made claim that the right way would be 6 additional sequentials. Where would I mount 2 additional injectors and know for sure the cylinders would be balanced?

 

picture makes it too hard to see, in person with that in front of you it would be much easier to see if there is somewhere to fit them. but it may not be realistic to attempt to put additional injectors in there. 6... 1 at each port, would be ideal... but you might be stuck putting them in your intake pipe... in which case it wouldnt be a bad idea to do individual cylinder dataloging, but man... what a PAIN.

 

So if you can only drive another 2 injectors how are you going to drive the other 4 you want to add?

If you're thinking of changing to a different ECU then a far better solution would be to replace the stock injectors with a larger flow rate that matches what you need.

 

Thats the issue. If I want to add 6 additional then I will look at the proper solution to drive them. If I add only 2 more I will drive them with the E-Manage. I just dont see how 6 secondary injectors will fit in this manifold next to the OEM locations. I dont want to go to a wet manifold setup.

 

I'm praying there is enough room to do 6 sequential secondary injectors... because it's the only good solution I see on this car. The few standalone ECUs available all have shortcomings one way or another, and tuning to achieve an OEM-like idle and partial-throttle drivability is nearly impossible. I'm hoping just to use a extra-injector-controller (EIC) to drive 6 large secondary injectors controlled by a MAP x RPM table, and just spray them when the MAP reads positive pressure. I'll let the stock ECU handle vacuum -- it's obviously quite good at it.

 

Azrael, That's exactly how I look at it. I am still waiting on cleaning out my garage to bring the Z in for the turbo install. I hear the greddy emanage can control injectors, but I do not know the specifics. I would like to install the 440's that come with the greddy kit as secondaries and leave the stockers in there. The e-01 will pass map sensor data to the emanage so I am hopeing thier is an appropriate matrix in the emanage to tune a system like this. I have no experiance with the emanage, I am just going on what I have heard. If the emanage cannot do it I'll build a megasquirt. The megasquirt is a open source fuel computer project and to my knowledge is the only one with wbo2 support. I hope to tear into the Z this weekend.

Azrael, mabye you would like to colaborate on getting this going. Where do you stand on your turbo install and fuel system?

 

I won't be going turbo for quite a while. Brakes and suspension are my first concern, by far.

I'm just trying to get a handle on all my options and decide what's best.

From what I've heard, the E-Manage can only drive 2 secondary injectors, so I'm not sure if you can use it to do what you're talking about. I've heard of the MegaSquirt, and I'm pretty sure you can get it to do what you're attempting.. it seems like a really good project. Given my financial restraints, I have plenty of time to evaluate the possibilities.

 

I don't see 6 being needed quite frankly...for moderate boost levels on most of the turbos out right now for the car, 2 additionals of around 720 cc each would do quite nicely, govenred by a seperate MAP sensor.

 

Z1: you totaly correct, but its not that they want 6 injectors for quanity, they want the 6 injectors to keep the plenum dry.

at the port is the best place to put a fuel injector... in the charge pipes is not really ideal for many reasons.

so its not a matter of 2 not being enough, just a matter of those 2 being in the wrong place.

 

well said, my thoughts exactly.

In a wet intake setup, I would worry about fuel atomization and distribution. I would hate to see 2 or 4 cylinders running lean because I went the cheap route and just used 2 injectors. IMO, if you're using secondary injectors, a direct-port setup is the only way to go.

 

at that point then, why not just use 6 of the right sized injectors and a proper management...additionals at that point are such an unnecessary hassle IMHO

 

I've listed my reasons above --

1. Few good standalone solutions
2. None of them are plug and play (nice, but not necessary)
3. Tuning to OEM-like idle and partial-throttle driveability is nearly impossible

If AEM came out with an EMS, or if Apex'i made a Power FC application, I'd feel more comfortable running a standalone ECU. As-is, I don't see any good options for the Z. I refuse to get an HKS F CON V and let someone else tune it -- I want to be able to adjust it myself. So that pretty much leaves only a few options available to me.. all of which are a huge pain in the butt, probably requiring all new sensors, and definitely requiring custom ECU harnesses.. but like I said, it will be a while before I'm ready to buy.. so maybe better options will appear in the meantime.

 

Electromotive TECIII - use your stock sensors, piggyback it in to control fuel and timing, leave cold start, a/c idle up and stock ISC intact. It's a setup we have done time and time again on other cars, and would be the ideal setup for a Z. Pus it would allow use of either stock injectors, or better yet, nice low impedance units. If I get to the point where I need it, this will be my choice (its also what I am most familiar with, as I own one and we tune them all the time here)

Adam

 

sounds good.. I'll have to check into it. I'd most likely be looking at 720cc injectors myself.. not sure what options I'd have in that arena, but I suppose the TECIII is flexible enough to drive quite a few?

I'd probably pull back the timing in the upper RPMs as well.

 

I would not worry about atmoization at all in a plenum based setup.....we are not talking about a 20 lbs kit here, but something that can safely run, say 10-12 psi ideally without giving up the ghost.

Any reason why you have 720cc's in mind? Thats 600 hp worth of fuel on a 6 cylinder car.......I've got 6 x480's on my other Z, and that car is simply too fast to be driven regularly on the stree as it is. 550's would be the ideal IMHO for the type of realistic numbers people are likely to see from this engine.

As for tapering timing, don't make the mistake of making blank tuning statements like that......ideally you want to advance timing as much as you possibly can until such time as knock is produced, but it's based on so many, many variables. More often than not on a forced induction setup, a downard taper of timing in the upper rpm ranges (after the torque peak) is generally needed.

A direct setup is nice, but the means currently out there to control them are quite cheesy, dated technology, in that they provide a single reference point (MAP signal). Given that, 2 properly sized additional units over and above the stock injectors (which are not small mind you, especially considering there are 6 of them) would suit the setup fine. At the point where you introduce a sophisticated way of controlling the additionals, it would be far less complicated and far less costly to fit the proper size injectors from the get go...again, all my humble opinion...there are many different paths to the same goal.

 

Am I seeing correctly!!!That unit is $2500..Are you nuts??