carlosG

I am waiting for my SC kit from ATI and I am debating whether to get 440cc RC injectors or the 380 from Power Entreprise. I have decided already on a walboro fuel pump. What do you guys think

abogada001

And what do you plan on accomplishing with that?

You should prob read some of the thirty or so threads on prochargers and the issue's people are having.

Robin

spazpilot

iTrader: (2)

IF I were you I would go with the 380cc injectors. They are a direct replacement and requires no splicing of the factory harness. Then dump the fmu that comes with the ati or get a tuner kit and get the TS ecu flash. Works way better and is much safer. Thats how they should of sold the kit in my opinion

elektrik_juggernaut

amen brother........there would have been a lot less oil spilled that way

TheSVTKid

If your tuner has full control over the ECU. You should be able to run any size injector that is High Impedance.
( 12ohm )

It's just a matter of changing the mass air transfer function. It's all math at that point, not really a "tuning" aspect. This covers 380cc, 440cc, 550cc, or whatever you want. The only thing that might hold you back is the connections on the ends of the injectors. One thing to remember is that you want to use a size that will put you near 85-90% duty cycle. That way you have some room to grow but you are not out of injector. Bigger is not always better, since everytime you step to a larger set, you are lossing resolution. Less resolution = less drivability.

my.02
EA

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

just realize that the spray pattern between different injector companies are very different..

PE's injectors have a better atomizer/fuel nozzle than RC injectors do...

TheSVTKid

Chebosto to say they "spray different" is not 100% fact as stated. I will not dog on any companies in this post, nor will I pass judgment, as allways. This is mearly an educational post.

A 440cc injector is a 440cc injector no matter what! If they both started life as a ______ unit (fill in the blank with BOSCH, SEIMEN/DECA, LUCAS), they flow the same as long as the PSI they are tested at remains the same, and the tip is unmodified. Yes the spray pattern varies if and ONLY if it has a modified tip. That usually is to increase flow. The ohms are always the same, the bodies are the same, the moving parts are the same. There is no such thing as a tuner that can't "tune" them because of the spray pattern. Maybe the true FLOW rate, but not the spray pattern.

Injector spray patterns only really effect emissions and the burn pattern on N/A cars/trucks/boats. Once you add F/I to the mix, there is no real care anymore unless you are worried about Emissions. Think what happens to the spray pattern as boost pressure in a manifold is present. Now think of what it looks like when it gets to high psi levels. Yup it changes the pattern. So basically in a nut shell it kinda shows that it's really none relevent item. All that truly matters is the FLOW, and at what PSI that is, and how much PSI can it handle.

Now this will really make you scratch your head. Since people think the spray pattern is such a big deal. What do you think happens to the spray pattern every time the Fuel Pressure Changes? Think of a kitchen sink. When you have it half open what does the water look like. Now what does the water look like at full blast. Then think if you added some PSI behind that water, what would it look like then? See what I mean, to say "the spray pattern is different" well yeah....but they all are, all the time, no matter what. There are hundereds of variables that effect that. And none of which is enough to cause any real damage unless the unit is broken, and not cycling properly.

Hope that rids some of the myths out there.
EA

PS: All injectors on the planet are made orginally for OEM cars/trucks/boats. They are all made by the manfactures I listed above. All other companies just "tweak" them, flow match them, and rebuild them.

12SecZ

440's wouldn't work on my car or the Ultimate Z car we both could not use them, car didn't idle right on the Chicago car and my installer took one look at the wiring , size and the 3 HUGE holes (based on P.E.'s 10 smaller holes) and the P.E.'s were a no brainer.

Tuner kit, Walbro, P.E.'s, reflash. 380 isn't the only size P.E. makes either but they do just pop right in in seconds like stock.

elektrik_juggernaut

.

12SecZ

Whatever works for whomever.... whenever..
That is my new motto,

Long day at work blah...... tired.

good luck to all and push the limits take it to the edge, just research first from running cars not ideas and theories.

I will be posting track times starting Feb Wednesdays weather permitting. I bracket race though so fastest isn't always best, unless it is consistant, this we shall see, I do know my car runs excellent on/off boost with the 380's for thousands of miles now.

Peas!

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

Not all injectors are created equally. True they may have the same labeling as a 440cc or 380cc injector, spray patterns are different and will affect how your engine behaves. if you have three large holes compared to eight smaller ones, think of how the fuel is injected into a system. One will add fuel in a thicker stream, and the other will mistify the fuel to a finer concentration. well what do you expect will happen? spray patterns matter even if you dont think they do. true any tuner can tune any car to any injector, but some have better attributes than others.

imho, if you've seen the two injectors that are being discussed, you'll understand.

TheSVTKid

True.

Quote:

spray patterns are different and will affect how your engine behaves.

Yes, N/A cars are effected the most. The spray pattern affects Emissions, and burn patterns. Once you add Forced Induction, If they are flowing the same amount of fuel, they are flowing the same amount of fuel. period.

Quote:

if you have three large holes compared to eight smaller ones, think of how the fuel is injected into a system.

Yes that is call atomization, though it has nothing to do with the amount of fuel comming out. So there is no reason for a car to run rich at idle. Also as stated before once you add manifold pressure to the mix, it doesn't matter. The car probly ran bad at idle, because they didn't change the tune for the size of the injector. Of course they are going to pimp the product they make money off of, welcome to the world of buisness. If you took the car to a shop that could tune the computer, but didn't sell injecotrs, do you think they would care what brand they are, as long as they knew what the flowed?

Quote:

One will add fuel in a thicker stream, and the other will mistify the fuel to a finer concentration.

That is correct, though still has nothing to do with anything other then burn patterns or emissions. Unless the injector is broken and just letting fuel dribble out of it. Some of the "baddest injecotors on the planet" that flow over 1600cc's have ONE hole in them. They don't have issues at idle, when tuned correct. It's not like every supra (or whatever) running these injectors runs poor on the street. Heck most you couldn't tell it was modded at idle other then the sound from the 4" exaust systems.

Quote:

spray patterns matter even if you dont think they do.

I don't know if this was a shot at my knowledge, or just me in general. I don't care either way, since I have "been around" the block enough times to know facts. I don't have sponsors I support when I post. And frankly I have stated that spray patterns DO MATTER, just not as much as people are lead to believe with Forced Induction. There are different patterns called "wet flow" and "dry flow" and there are different things that effect each of them.

Quote:

True any tuner can tune any car to any injector,

Then why can't they get the car to idle?

Quote:

but some have better attributes than others

True, and on a F/I car the things that matter are durrability, max psi, and flow. Pattern is a secondary thing to think about, if at all.

Quote:

imho, if you've seen the two injectors that are being discussed, you'll understand.

No need, I already know what you are talking about. I have seen countless injectors in my days, countless spray patterns, countless companys that say their injectors are the best thing since "canned beer" Though the point of this post is, I posted facts with no sponsor input, you are "sponsored" by PE, Techno Square, etc. I am willing to bet RC Engineering, or any other injector company would have some things to say about PE's injectors. They are compeditors in the buisness just like computer software companies.


I will no longer respond to this post, for as I feel it's going to lead to drama. I wish TS the best of luck with the computer reflashes.

EA

12SecZ

FYI FWIW,

Part of the Chicago Z Car idling (well all of it now lol ) has been attributed to an after market flywheel and hotter plugs etc.

A reflash to raise the idle has fixed it, the car runs PERFECT. All done through the mail, again FWIW.

Peace...

jesseenglish

TheSVTKid,

thanks for the input on spray patterns. I too have heard these claims about how the PE injectors are soooo much better than the RCEngineering injectors. I mean come on, if RC injectors sucked, the company wouldn't be in business anymore. They've been in the injector business for a while now and have been used at one time or another on every car make and model that's ever swapped injectors.

Thank you for your unbiased knowledge on the situation.

daking350

The fact that TS suggest $900 power enterprise injectors has nothing to do with TS being affiliated with Power enterprise of course..

ravaz

iTrader: (1)

Funny thing is, I called TS about getting "flashed" for some injectors, and they asked me which size. I told them 440cc, they asked what make is it. I told them RC. They said no way they can't do it, this and that etc.. I said OK but you can do 380's right? Sure they said. I said well what about 550cc from PE, they said yeah they should be able to, but really need to see the car to get it perfect.

elektrik_juggernaut

they tried it in the past.......on the Chicago Z mentioned above.......that car had black smoke at idle with the RC's, but did well with the PE's.......they don't sell the PE's at Technosquare.........those are available from a different vendor, so Technosquare makes no money in that side of the deal

daking350

There are 2 PE kits available..One with only the 380 injectors as fuel managment running I think 6lbs of boost and no required tuning,this kit is the mid 300 hp one..They make an upgrade kit good for 400 hp that includes an ECU re-flash from guess who...Technosquare..Who happens to be a sister company of PE..At least thats the story I have heard from the grapevine..Why is it no other TT kit is using TS for reflashes with any other brand of injector??
AA in MD is working on an ECU reflash using Tech-com software(same that TS uses) and is utilizing RC 440 injectors with no problem..Hmm...Makes you wonder considering RC's are $300 cheaper than PE...

elektrik_juggernaut

sister company? .......they entered a contract together........TS doesn't make any money from the sale of PE injectors.......they make their money doing the flashes that can get the Turbo Kit to it's full potential

Aftermarket companies are just like car manufacturers.......they use what parts they have used in the past.......many of the parts on our car have been in other nissans before our car was made.........Greddy went with the engine management system that they already had.......it's cheaper for them that way


they have had that programmer ever since i've had my Procharger.......June of 2003..........they bought it from Technosquare..........last i had heard, the only thing they've done with their TechTom is raise rev limiters, and take out speed governors...........writing a program is not as easy as it sounds.......look at the problems Fisher has had with theirs

daking350

Last time I talked to Mike from AA he said they had a full ECU reflash done and almost ready for sale.That was last week..I dont know if he is BSing me as I have had no dealings with him but he said they were utilizing the RC 440 injectors and a larger fuel pump with no problems..Who knows if its true or not..But the fact is any injectors can be utilized not just the PE ones..Its just that the PE's were used and thats what they have the programming for...They can do others but like RAVAZ said the will need the car there to tune for the larger injectors..
And like EJ said...TS and PE are working together..