alpine

I am abandoning the oil cooler as there are many "ifs"involved and I am working towards the higher capacity, heat sink, oil pan instead.

They are about the same price, work similarly to the oil cooler, and don't have all the plumbing, and don't take space up at the front, so since I am going FI one way or the other, and I will have the IC up front, I don't want to have problems with placement/space.

There are a couple out there, one from Power Enterprises, which may be next to impossible to get, and another from ARC.

I am also in the process of getting a heat sink differential plate.

Did I mention I just came off big willow?

UsafaRice

One thing I don't think we've mentioned that is a constant for both turbo and superchargers is that there is a lot of heat created simply because the intake charge is being compressed. There's some Boyle or Charle's law or the ideal gas law or something that says PV=nRT so as the volume of the air is decreased, the pressure would change correspondingly in an ideal situation.

However, if you've used a fire extinguisher or that compressed gas for dusting or nitrous or whatever, you know that there is a temperature change as well. So, real life is not the same as ideal.

Anyway, the compressor section heats the air just by compressing it, in addition to all the other heat caused by friction or the exhaust gases.

SQUILL

The greddy intercooler is way bigger than it needs to be so as far as intake charge temps are concerned i read somewhere it is about 15 degrees above ambient.

The aps twin turbo system will be using oil and water cooling to the turbos as well as a large intercooler of course no data yet.

as far as intake charge temps are concerned the turbos run very cold temps for F/I.

little_rod

Well, I am still on the fence of the whole TT/SC thing. On stock internals, an SC is more than enough. But, if you look at the prices of an SC w/headers and a TT, with the installs of both, the prices become very similar.

A vortech with install and tuning, that could be like $5500. Good headers can cost anywhere from $1000-$1500 after install. Add HF cats/exhausts to that, and you are looking right dead at the price of a TT.

So where does that put me?? Thinking about staying stock, lol.

SQUILL

Ha Ha staying stock my a$$!!!! think of the joy twin snails can bring you!!!!

little_rod

LOL, I know, but I am not sure I want to spend 7K and up on my car. SC seems like the cheaper alternative, but when you add the headers to it to help it breathe, they are no longer as cheap as they first appear. After all, manifolds come with a TT.

I don't know what the freak I want, heh.

ct roadster

little_rod, I feel your pain!! It's a tough decision, and it all comes down to what you really want.

Part of the problem is that the stock Z is so well done out of the box that it makes it very hard to decide what to do to improve it -- there are worse problems to have.....

On another note, I got a reply from the DreamWorkes people; they say they will be shipping in 30 days. Go ahead and post if you've heard that before...on the other hand, don't: we don't want to double the length of this thread!!!

-frank

little_rod

Well, in order to make significant power in this car, you have to spend money, and alot of it. A few boltons are not enough to make significant power in this car.

The only thing worth the money, IMO, is FI. Real difficult decision, for sure.

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Oh dear...sorry...i took the bait.

Get ready for this thread to hit 600 posts.


The Greddy intercooler is sick. Although my testing is totally non-scientific...i can tell you that after 5 WOT pulls in 2nd gear, I pulled over and felt the ends tanks on both side of the intercooler. The inlet side was warm to the touch...borderline hot. Not enough to burn you...but definately some good warmth coming from them. Then I put my had on the outlet side....i swear...it was like 90degress outside that day...and the outlet tank felt like a coke can that you just pulled from the fridge...it was VERY cold.

I like!

alpine

You get a fail for scientific method.

Are you happy now?

The bottom line is that the IC appears to be working sufficiently, right?

alpine

absoultely my point, and always has been, which is why I haven't done a dozen other things I could do to my car thus far.

I was essentially hoping to do a couple requried items reqadless of where I ended up, so I have the flywheel & clutch upgrades, I swapped from my PopCharger to the K&n Typhoon, and have been very satifisfied I get good response from what the engine has to offer.

I had taken into cost account, that the TT provides manifolds, however I know I would have to add exhaust to get more out of either FI solution, so I've waited on exhaust, unlike many others.

So far it still seems like to borla is the way to go, someone mentioned to me how nice the HKS looks though with nearly identical performance figures, with their angled tips vs straight out the back.

My primary gripe on TT is that it is very obvious that if you/I intend on driving more than a few street runs, you will need considerable "support" modifications/add-ons to get the turbos to provide more than SC in a repeated or constant boost scenario.

My last outting at the track, there were 2 SC mustangs, they ran hard, drove like crap, but ran hard when given the oportunity, and they ran VERY nicely, and no heat issues.

The couple turbo vehicles that were out there, were either very exotic (so they have supporting modifications) or they were "built" up and again, they had supporting modifications.

The case seems to be holding for SC, it's more than enough most of the time, and is not nearly as complex/costly(overall) as TT including track time.

For those of you/us who want it used in particular ways, or more often than "most of the time", TT is the way to go, not including track time, without "additional supporting modifications", plus extra moola.

I am going to talking with some business associates of mine, tapping my resources one last time for a complete basic "plus" install of SC and TT.

If I can get the right deal on TT, I will go that route, or perhaps if I can get some sponsorship love, I'll go further. Otherwise I feel that a SC is in my very near future.

Anyone want to contribute to "get Joe a TT" fund, or prevent me from slipping into the darkside of SC? It's defintely a good cause! No really... It is....

SQUILL

It looks to me like greddy knew some people would be building their blocks and with the td05's able to run 20 psi + they chose to use a giant intercooler that would handle the heat 700 or so hp would create.

Look at pics of all the other F/I kits out there right now the greddy intercooler is by far the biggest. Its like twice the size of the stillen.

You'll see over the next few months a couple of the built motor cars from members on the forum here will see completion and we will get to benefit from the info they will be posting here. I think we will see the intercooler if sufficient to provide cooling for these turbos running at their max capacity!

alpine

I should be recieving my Power Enterprises High Capacity, Heat Sink, Oil pan my Monday/Tuesday. I already have my Nismo Heat Sink Differential Plate. I am overdo (not really as I got a new trans) for my Transmission and Differential service. So I was figuring I would change out the cover there, but then I found out you need to drop the whole damn thing to replace it, so I may have to change out my LSD as well.

Anyone have a good source for this?

SQUILL

I was wondering what do you consider the right deal???

for example one vendor here has greddy plus intercooler for 6400
then ive been quoted 20 hour install x 65 per hour = 7700

then 7700 is total as no headers are needed

cheapest vortec i could find was 4900 + 12 hours install x 65 per hour = 5680 + headers (1600inc labor) 7280

so both systems are roughly the same cost + exaust and both systems are left stock however both systems can be fine tuned using dyno tuning without any other in vehicle EM systems

greddy to a max of 6 psi with out the profec E01.
6 psi = 360-370 whp roughly.

vortec to about 410-420 whp with 9 lb pulley (more money)
however of course with a huge torque advantage and more power sooner in the powerband going to the turbos.

so my question to you is for roughly the same cost which would you rather have???? (stay in the light)

alpine

Only got a few minutes on this one. Essentially I could see spending between 6&8K for one or the other.

Again, my current focus, potentially misdirected, is that in order for me to use TT the way I currently use my car, I would need to spend closer to 15K with TT for the "additional supporting modifications/additions" to keep the TT from melting itself down or my engine.

Again, I'd rather build up my internals, and then go SC if I have to spend 10K or more then I would more than likely match TT output and without have Turbo worries.

I realize that SC output is limited in comparison to TT, even with various modifications, but how often can you "use" that additional BOOST or HP?

I think someone hit the TT Dimmer Switch on the lights about a dozen posts back, for my application and use.

SQUILL

You dont need to build your engine for either SC or TT unless you want 600 hp or more however from what you have said you dont.

Yes the turbos are hot but no hotter than any other cast exaust manifold just there is a greater surface area. Heat wrap and you are fine. Look at all the auto cross cars running turbos . like 9 out of ten drift cars are turbo ... subaru and audi which dominate the rally racing turbos. the list goes on and on.

Heat is not as big of issue as you think out on the track.

If you are leaning back towards supercharches because of heat than you will be making a big mistake. If there are other reasons fine but it sounds like heat is the concern now and believe me you are not going to need to build your motor for 6 psi or melt anything out on the track.

Alpine i sugest you beg and plead sombody with a TT car for a test drive as if you do i think you will destroy some preconcieved notions you currently have!!

maybe im corrupt because ive owned so many turbo cars however i used to work at the ford dealership for a couple years and got to drive a 2002 eaton supercharged GT mustang 5mt and a 1999 cobra mustang with a paxton centrif blower.

Both cars really didnt feel any different untill they were 4000 rpms at wot. And since i was working at the ford dealer Ive driven every mustang out there. I just wasnt that impressed with the supercharged cars.

You asked how often can you use the additional power from turbo.

My answer would be however many times on the race track you will be accelerating is how many times you can use more power sooner!

little_rod

alpine, I think that was me and sand that hit that dimmer switch, lol. The money becomes quite similar when you add headers to an SC, but you don't "need" headers with an SC.

God, I have no idea what I want, lol.

SQUILL

HE hehehe. I want turbos so powerfull that when the blowoff valve goes it blows womens clothes off!!!!