Small issue with Vortech install... curious to see others opinion?
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CJ Motorsports
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From: West Chicago, IL
Small issue with Vortech install... curious to see others opinion?
We did ths install for a customer this week. The car ended up with 371rwhp with no other mods what-so-ever.
The car did 351 with just the kit, and the other 20hp was from us bringing the A/F into a range that the wideband could actually see/meter it. Made tons of mid-range power from the tuning. Again, we found no other mods in the car. Stock exhaust and cats and all... oh.. it did have a ground kit.
Heres the thing... I have given the car back to the owner... I am confident enough with the project that the engine is not going to blow up... we got probably 20 dyno pulls and put maybe 2 miles on the road with it, and it seems to stay in a good air/fuel ratio regardless of whats going on... but had to stay very conservative noteing how the stock ECU runs a lot leaner when the engine is cooler... meaning the same tune could run a 12:1 or a 10.5:1 depending on heat soak in the engine. We could watch this doing back to back runs on the dyno without tuning inbetween.
Anyhow.. The concern I have with the project is one of the pulley assemblies. I am speaking of the complicated one that goes thru the bracket and transfers the serpentine belt power to the SC cog belt. That pulley/bearing assembly sure seems to make a lot of noise. Its quiet until we boost the motor or run it hard... then it starts sounding really shitty and stops again after a while.
ANyone else have a problem with that assembly making all kinds of noise? I am considering calling up Vortech to ask for a replacement for that assembly.
-Charles
CJM
The car did 351 with just the kit, and the other 20hp was from us bringing the A/F into a range that the wideband could actually see/meter it. Made tons of mid-range power from the tuning. Again, we found no other mods in the car. Stock exhaust and cats and all... oh.. it did have a ground kit.
Heres the thing... I have given the car back to the owner... I am confident enough with the project that the engine is not going to blow up... we got probably 20 dyno pulls and put maybe 2 miles on the road with it, and it seems to stay in a good air/fuel ratio regardless of whats going on... but had to stay very conservative noteing how the stock ECU runs a lot leaner when the engine is cooler... meaning the same tune could run a 12:1 or a 10.5:1 depending on heat soak in the engine. We could watch this doing back to back runs on the dyno without tuning inbetween.
Anyhow.. The concern I have with the project is one of the pulley assemblies. I am speaking of the complicated one that goes thru the bracket and transfers the serpentine belt power to the SC cog belt. That pulley/bearing assembly sure seems to make a lot of noise. Its quiet until we boost the motor or run it hard... then it starts sounding really shitty and stops again after a while.
ANyone else have a problem with that assembly making all kinds of noise? I am considering calling up Vortech to ask for a replacement for that assembly.
-Charles
CJM
hey phunk....cant help you on your question. But please tell me you did the 20 dyno runs over the course of a couple of days. Repeated dyno runs are really brutal on these F/I cars...both TT and SC. I'm not an expert...obvioulsy, but i would limit the dyno runs to 5 max per session....then shut the car down and let it cool for at least an hour. That's just my opinion. There was one documentated case of ATI dyno tuner that did many many repeated dyno pulls and blew the motor...just too much heat...if you ask me.
Like you said....depending on heat soak and outside temp, my A/F ratios can vary from a very safe 11.5:1 to a borderline scarey 12.7:1.
Like you said....depending on heat soak and outside temp, my A/F ratios can vary from a very safe 11.5:1 to a borderline scarey 12.7:1.
Thread Starter
CJ Motorsports
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From: West Chicago, IL
gq: I guess we did something right...
the 20 runs were in a course of probably 2.5 hours. We would do 2 runs back to back... then let the car sit for about 5-10 min depending on what we were doing... than try again. My dyno, like all, has fans... and within a few minutes of sitting the engine is cool enough to touch and the coolant temp is below standard operating temp.
A car that is built correctly and tuned correctly can handle constant abuse... if it cant, something is wrong... or you are past the physical limits of the engine. 370rwhp is not the physical limit of this engine.
The cars water temps are regulated by the thermostat and radiator fans, and we did no runs when the radiator fan was on... meaning coolant temp never went past normal. Oil temp was not monitered... however we left plenty of time inbetween.
If a car is going to break, we want it to happen at the shop, where we can fix it. Not when the customer is driving the car to work.
If I am not confident enough in the car to hold up for 20 repeaded passes on the dyno, then I am not confident enough to give the car back to the customer.
When you are tuning a car... you do not take several days to do so, just to allow the engine to get colder than standard operating temp between runs... not only that... but I dont want to tune a car for temperatures that are not real world... I want it tuned considering worst case scenario.
Dont be so affraid of the car... if things are done right... it will not blow up. my 2.2L civic laid down over 415fwhp on pump gas... at least 20 times in a matter of 3 hours while tuning... still going strong.
-Charles
the 20 runs were in a course of probably 2.5 hours. We would do 2 runs back to back... then let the car sit for about 5-10 min depending on what we were doing... than try again. My dyno, like all, has fans... and within a few minutes of sitting the engine is cool enough to touch and the coolant temp is below standard operating temp.
A car that is built correctly and tuned correctly can handle constant abuse... if it cant, something is wrong... or you are past the physical limits of the engine. 370rwhp is not the physical limit of this engine.
The cars water temps are regulated by the thermostat and radiator fans, and we did no runs when the radiator fan was on... meaning coolant temp never went past normal. Oil temp was not monitered... however we left plenty of time inbetween.
If a car is going to break, we want it to happen at the shop, where we can fix it. Not when the customer is driving the car to work.
If I am not confident enough in the car to hold up for 20 repeaded passes on the dyno, then I am not confident enough to give the car back to the customer.
When you are tuning a car... you do not take several days to do so, just to allow the engine to get colder than standard operating temp between runs... not only that... but I dont want to tune a car for temperatures that are not real world... I want it tuned considering worst case scenario.
Dont be so affraid of the car... if things are done right... it will not blow up. my 2.2L civic laid down over 415fwhp on pump gas... at least 20 times in a matter of 3 hours while tuning... still going strong.
-Charles
makes sense...but oil would be a better indicator of engine temp rather than coolant...as you mentioned. Unless customer road-races, I dont the think the car would see 20 or so 5th or 4th gear pulls to redline back to back. On the road, you might a few redline pulls...then lots of moderate mid-range driving...at least that how most people drive their cars...even when canyon carving and stuff.
Sounds like you are taking adequate precautions. carry on!
Sounds like you are taking adequate precautions.
carry on!
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