ATI Procharger vs Vortech SC
08-30-2004, 06:14 PM
#22
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385 rwhp with $39 34-tooth cog pulley (compared to 32-tooth stock). Others certainly have posted better numbers than I have. I was taking out about 1 degree of timing for every 500 rpms above 3500, BTW.
--Steve
--Steve
08-30-2004, 06:45 PM
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Thanks for the numbers... I have chosen to stay at 8.2 psi with the stock ATI pulleys (roughly 2 psi less than you) and I'm hitting roughly the same rwhp numbers and doing it with an automatic... I'm also pulling a lot of timing, a little more than you Zimbo.
Again, this is why the IC needs to be upgraded and the blower needs to be reworked. They were only designed with stock boost settings in mind.
As far as Zimbo's comment about the turbo being better for 12-15psi, I would tend to agree. It is slightly better however if you don't plan on upgrading the motor and want to gradually progress to and stay under 450rwhp, the procharger is the way to go.
Zimbo had the vortech kit and sold it for a turbo and is waiting for stronger internals to arrive. This is not the route I would recommend but to each his own. Make the decision now on how much power you want. Since the timing issues have been addressed I have not heard of anyone blowing a motor at stock boost, except for the guys with turbos. The supercharger is a safer route but the turbo can be a little more fun if you have $20K+ for internals, install, turbo kit, fuel kit, tranny upgrades, exhaust, gauges, etc.
Again, this is why the IC needs to be upgraded and the blower needs to be reworked. They were only designed with stock boost settings in mind.
As far as Zimbo's comment about the turbo being better for 12-15psi, I would tend to agree. It is slightly better however if you don't plan on upgrading the motor and want to gradually progress to and stay under 450rwhp, the procharger is the way to go.
Zimbo had the vortech kit and sold it for a turbo and is waiting for stronger internals to arrive. This is not the route I would recommend but to each his own. Make the decision now on how much power you want. Since the timing issues have been addressed I have not heard of anyone blowing a motor at stock boost, except for the guys with turbos. The supercharger is a safer route but the turbo can be a little more fun if you have $20K+ for internals, install, turbo kit, fuel kit, tranny upgrades, exhaust, gauges, etc.
08-30-2004, 07:54 PM
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You're getting good numbers, whosdady. My numbers were measured at 9psi... Not bad for the G35 sedan.
As for deciding now what you want... Very good advice. What I have always wanted to do is experiment and learn, experiment and learn, ad nauseum. Fortunately, I've been able to get some of the big-ticket items at cost--but it has indeed been expensive. And I'll never be done--not until I grow tired of this hobby and move on to something else.
--Steve
As for deciding now what you want... Very good advice. What I have always wanted to do is experiment and learn, experiment and learn, ad nauseum. Fortunately, I've been able to get some of the big-ticket items at cost--but it has indeed been expensive. And I'll never be done--not until I grow tired of this hobby and move on to something else.
--Steve
08-30-2004, 08:07 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by whosdady
Thanks for the numbers... I have chosen to stay at 8.2 psi with the stock ATI pulleys (roughly 2 psi less than you) and I'm hitting roughly the same rwhp numbers and doing it with an automatic... I'm also pulling a lot of timing, a little more than you Zimbo.
Again, this is why the IC needs to be upgraded and the blower needs to be reworked. They were only designed with stock boost settings in mind.
As far as Zimbo's comment about the turbo being better for 12-15psi, I would tend to agree. It is slightly better however if you don't plan on upgrading the motor and want to gradually progress to and stay under 450rwhp, the procharger is the way to go.
Zimbo had the vortech kit and sold it for a turbo and is waiting for stronger internals to arrive. This is not the route I would recommend but to each his own. Make the decision now on how much power you want. Since the timing issues have been addressed I have not heard of anyone blowing a motor at stock boost, except for the guys with turbos. The supercharger is a safer route but the turbo can be a little more fun if you have $20K+ for internals, install, turbo kit, fuel kit, tranny upgrades, exhaust, gauges, etc. [/QUOTE
I have the Vortech kit installed with no other mods yet, at 8psi (stock boost) I put down 371 RWHP and 334 RWTQ. I think both kits have there good and bad points. If you want to go with big power you need to build the motor and get a Turbo kit. That’s what I will do; I have an extra motor just waiting to see what’s going to happen with the single turbo kit.
Thanks for the numbers... I have chosen to stay at 8.2 psi with the stock ATI pulleys (roughly 2 psi less than you) and I'm hitting roughly the same rwhp numbers and doing it with an automatic... I'm also pulling a lot of timing, a little more than you Zimbo.
Again, this is why the IC needs to be upgraded and the blower needs to be reworked. They were only designed with stock boost settings in mind.
As far as Zimbo's comment about the turbo being better for 12-15psi, I would tend to agree. It is slightly better however if you don't plan on upgrading the motor and want to gradually progress to and stay under 450rwhp, the procharger is the way to go.
Zimbo had the vortech kit and sold it for a turbo and is waiting for stronger internals to arrive. This is not the route I would recommend but to each his own. Make the decision now on how much power you want. Since the timing issues have been addressed I have not heard of anyone blowing a motor at stock boost, except for the guys with turbos. The supercharger is a safer route but the turbo can be a little more fun if you have $20K+ for internals, install, turbo kit, fuel kit, tranny upgrades, exhaust, gauges, etc. [/QUOTE
I have the Vortech kit installed with no other mods yet, at 8psi (stock boost) I put down 371 RWHP and 334 RWTQ. I think both kits have there good and bad points. If you want to go with big power you need to build the motor and get a Turbo kit. That’s what I will do; I have an extra motor just waiting to see what’s going to happen with the single turbo kit.
08-30-2004, 09:52 PM
#26
Ok iam gonna ask AGAIN. If i were to get the ATI Procharger what exactly else would i need to buy to make it able to put in my car and boost it up to around 9-10lbs.. i was gonna buy some unorthodox 3pc pully set for it. But what do i need to buy or what do i need to do for the ECU flash or whatever else was said i need to do for timing.
08-31-2004, 03:06 AM
#27
sc's
If you go with the ATI be prepared to spend more money and time to get it to work . Vortech is good to go from the get go .If you want to up the hp on th ATI , you'll need new fuel injectors , fuel pump , Timing control , [ECU flash is hit and miss ] and you may have to send it back several times . Vortech...buy a $60 pulley and a new serp belt , put it on and retune . They both make from 100 to 130whp . ATI is self contained oil system [needs to be changed ] along with changing engine oil . Vortech's oil is changed when you change engine oil .ATI runs on 2 cog belts [no slipping ] Vortech runs on a serp belt and a cog belt . [serp belt needs to be tightened once in awhile ] . Vortech can reach the 390 to 415 whp [Dynojet] range cheaper than the ATI . After that both would need to have the engines be reworked .And Vortech would need to have an better intercooler . If ATI was a complete kit I would have put it in my G35...it wasnt....So Vortech is in there and I'm happy with it . The first guy's that put in the ATI , did all the leg work to get it to work , and found out what extra's you need to buy to get it right . Im sure ATI has seen what the kit needs to make it work and STILL havent added what it needs. WHY ?.....AND dont buy a light wieght engine pulley if you go with a SC , it will reduce boost , you can use the other 2 pulleys in the set...........Bill
Last edited by booger; 08-31-2004 at 03:12 AM.
08-31-2004, 04:24 AM
#28
ECU flash is hit and miss
As for the oil changes, everything I have heard says that if you can avoid tapping into the oil pan, do it. Not ten minutes ago, I read a thread titled "Oil leak with Vortec". The ATI kit does need timing adjustments but I still think the C2 blower itself is better than overall than the Vortec.
You don't NEED larger injectors and fuel pump with the ATI. I got them but I went an entire year without them and had no problems at all.
I agree that with the larger psi pulleys, the Vortec seems to be getting somewhat better HP numbers but stock pulley for stock pulley the ATI kit is doing MUCH better.
As for the lightweight pulleys, you shouldn't use them with any supercharger. It'll lower your boost. (Oops, sorry, I see that was already answered)
08-31-2004, 04:31 AM
#29
Read the thread that says Vortech oil leak.....its a crank case breather hose , Not a oil leak on the SC. TS flash is still hit and miss...how can a guy in Cal. know exactly what your car needs in Neb. or any other place ? I was just stating the facts with both blowers . So some one can make up his mind on which to get . Of course we both are siding with the blower that we own . A guy should know what he is up against when making up his mind
Last edited by booger; 08-31-2004 at 04:34 AM.
08-31-2004, 04:44 AM
#30
I had my ECU flash....NA...for my mods at the time...It came out with a low to mid 12 to 1 A/F ratio which is to rich for N/A . Thats hit and miss . And in my post I stated that the ATI would be in my car if it was a complete kit . As I would have chosen it over the Vortech if it was .For the price ATI wants....they should finish the kit and make it complete. And then they would have competed better with the Vortech kit . Vortech has out sold ATI since it has come out for that reason
Last edited by booger; 08-31-2004 at 04:55 AM.
08-31-2004, 06:56 AM
#31
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The first kit to come out was the ATI kit by several months. ATI has still out sold Vortech to date. The only reason more vortech kits have been sold since their inception is due to the cheaper price. Vortech is able to charge less becasue the parts they include are meant to handle less hp than ATI. ATI knew ahead of time enthusiats would want to upgrade without changing I/C's and impeller components.
One way of judging the quality and performance of the kit is to look in magazines/shows/track events at high profile cars. You will clearly notice the ATI kit on those cars, not the vortech. Why? Because the ATI kit is a better all around kit.
It wasn't but a couple months ago that vortech started to offer a tuner kit. ATI has been doing this from day one. This makes the most sense so you can have exactly what you want. Some people didn't like the SS box but they were forced to buy it. Some people didn't want a dfmu but they didn't have a choice. ATI has always been devoted to only giving the customer what he/she wants and gives the option to control timing and fuel by other means. (IE: TS ECU flash, standalone, J&S, ect)
The best option if you plan on increaseing the HP in your Z to 450rwhp or less is the ATI tuner kit. To do this you will need the following items.
1. ATI tuner kit (less than the full kit)
2. 9lbs pulley (comes with the kit if desired)
3. TS ECU flash ($600)
4. PE injectors ($850)
5. Walboro fuel pump ($100)
This is the safest, most powerful option for the 350Z. Will the vortech kit hit 400rwhp. Yes, but who knows what is happening with the stock injectors and stock fuel pump. Have there been some issues with vortech that may have resulted from a lack of fuel. Yes! Why not buy everything now and not have to back step when you want 430rwhp?
One way of judging the quality and performance of the kit is to look in magazines/shows/track events at high profile cars. You will clearly notice the ATI kit on those cars, not the vortech. Why? Because the ATI kit is a better all around kit.
It wasn't but a couple months ago that vortech started to offer a tuner kit. ATI has been doing this from day one. This makes the most sense so you can have exactly what you want. Some people didn't like the SS box but they were forced to buy it. Some people didn't want a dfmu but they didn't have a choice. ATI has always been devoted to only giving the customer what he/she wants and gives the option to control timing and fuel by other means. (IE: TS ECU flash, standalone, J&S, ect)
The best option if you plan on increaseing the HP in your Z to 450rwhp or less is the ATI tuner kit. To do this you will need the following items.
1. ATI tuner kit (less than the full kit)
2. 9lbs pulley (comes with the kit if desired)
3. TS ECU flash ($600)
4. PE injectors ($850)
5. Walboro fuel pump ($100)
This is the safest, most powerful option for the 350Z. Will the vortech kit hit 400rwhp. Yes, but who knows what is happening with the stock injectors and stock fuel pump. Have there been some issues with vortech that may have resulted from a lack of fuel. Yes! Why not buy everything now and not have to back step when you want 430rwhp?
08-31-2004, 07:45 AM
#32
Yes the ATI is more suited for upgrades , for another $1500.00 on top of the more expensive kit of the 2 . But your missing the point . Vortech is a complete Kit . ATI isnt , Can you put the ATI kit in and run it to redline safely with out any thing else ? Only if you havent done any thing else to the car , that means , no headers ,no high flow cats , no plenum, no dual exhaust . Most guys want the complete kit . Most guys dont want to push the limit on a new car . ....I was waiting for you to post a reply......LOL....Did you get your cams in yet ?......Bill
Last edited by booger; 08-31-2004 at 07:57 AM.
08-31-2004, 08:02 AM
#33
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I'm glad to see you were waiting for my reply. 
Yes, cams are in. Dyno will take place today or tomorrow hopefully. I will report shortly there after.
My earlier point was that the ATI tuner kit (which is less expensive than the vortech kit) offers more in the sense that it allows you to upgrade further than what the potenial is with the vortech kit, therefore offering more. Yes the vortech kit offers the timing solution but the fuel is prehistoric IMO. It is a far less safe way of fuel delivery. Even if you are comfortable with the stock pump which is not safe, think about your poor stock injectors. How long will they last? No one has tried running 9lbs on stock injectors for over 6 months. I would hate to think that may be how long they will last before one fails and your engine goes boom
Yes, cams are in. Dyno will take place today or tomorrow hopefully. I will report shortly there after.My earlier point was that the ATI tuner kit (which is less expensive than the vortech kit) offers more in the sense that it allows you to upgrade further than what the potenial is with the vortech kit, therefore offering more. Yes the vortech kit offers the timing solution but the fuel is prehistoric IMO. It is a far less safe way of fuel delivery. Even if you are comfortable with the stock pump which is not safe, think about your poor stock injectors. How long will they last? No one has tried running 9lbs on stock injectors for over 6 months. I would hate to think that may be how long they will last before one fails and your engine goes boom
08-31-2004, 11:15 AM
#36
Thats somewhat of alot of upgrades i would have to get if i got the ATI.
Lets say i was going to get the Greddy TT Kit w/IC... what would i have to get to be safe. I heard you can just leave everything stock and throw it in and you will be good up to 8-9lbs of boost.
Lets say i was going to get the Greddy TT Kit w/IC... what would i have to get to be safe. I heard you can just leave everything stock and throw it in and you will be good up to 8-9lbs of boost.
08-31-2004, 11:26 AM
#37
Ok forget about the whole PE Injectors and Fuel pump upgrade, id prob do that anyway once i got either of these.
Iam not sure what id have to do about the ATI timing issue though... iam hearing ECU is a hit and miss.. if thats true what can i do?
If i get the timing fixed.
Which supercharger is better and has more potential to just totally kill the other?
Iam not sure what id have to do about the ATI timing issue though... iam hearing ECU is a hit and miss.. if thats true what can i do?
If i get the timing fixed.
Which supercharger is better and has more potential to just totally kill the other?
08-31-2004, 12:04 PM
#38
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Originally posted by cloudy
Ok forget about the whole PE Injectors and Fuel pump upgrade, id prob do that anyway once i got either of these.
Iam not sure what id have to do about the ATI timing issue though... iam hearing ECU is a hit and miss.. if thats true what can i do?
If i get the timing fixed.
Which supercharger is better and has more potential to just totally kill the other?
Ok forget about the whole PE Injectors and Fuel pump upgrade, id prob do that anyway once i got either of these.
Iam not sure what id have to do about the ATI timing issue though... iam hearing ECU is a hit and miss.. if thats true what can i do?
If i get the timing fixed.
Which supercharger is better and has more potential to just totally kill the other?
Like I tried to point out earlier the injectors, fuel pump and flash are things you will want to do with either kit. Why back track later? Buy the best now. The ATI tuner kit with these additional itmes increases your potenial more so than what can be accomplished with the vortech kit. Therefore in answer to your question... The ATI kit (with added items) will "totally kill" the vortech kit with or without the same added items.
08-31-2004, 04:41 PM
#39
Ok so if i get the 380cc PE Injectors, and a Walbro 255lph High Pressure fuel pump, then get the ecu flashed/timing all done ill be set? The guy that is installing everything knows what to do about the ecu flashed and would know where to go. So i jsut have to tell him, i want it ecu flashed?
08-31-2004, 04:52 PM
#40
Originally posted by whosdady
You will get the ecu flashed anyway if you want to delete the rev limiter and speed limiter. The timing and fuel delivery upgrade is only an additional $200 on top of that for a total of $595 for a complete flash. Timing is not hit or miss. They have done many ecu flashes, probably thousands if you count N/A flashes. Are there any problems, yes. Are most people problem free, yes. Call technosquare if this is a concern.
Like I tried to point out earlier the injectors, fuel pump and flash are things you will want to do with either kit. Why back track later? Buy the best now. The ATI tuner kit with these additional itmes increases your potenial more so than what can be accomplished with the vortech kit. Therefore in answer to your question... The ATI kit (with added items) will "totally kill" the vortech kit with or without the same added items.
You will get the ecu flashed anyway if you want to delete the rev limiter and speed limiter. The timing and fuel delivery upgrade is only an additional $200 on top of that for a total of $595 for a complete flash. Timing is not hit or miss. They have done many ecu flashes, probably thousands if you count N/A flashes. Are there any problems, yes. Are most people problem free, yes. Call technosquare if this is a concern.
Like I tried to point out earlier the injectors, fuel pump and flash are things you will want to do with either kit. Why back track later? Buy the best now. The ATI tuner kit with these additional itmes increases your potenial more so than what can be accomplished with the vortech kit. Therefore in answer to your question... The ATI kit (with added items) will "totally kill" the vortech kit with or without the same added items.