ATI Procharger vs Vortech SC
08-31-2004, 07:57 PM
#41
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I'm sorry Booger if I sound biased... However, what I have mentioned above is not a knock on Vortech, it is a knock on the dfmu/stock injectors/stock fuel pump at 9psi. That is why I reccomend the flash regardless of what set up you have. This is especially true if you plan on running 9psi or more. Hopefully you can understand this?
This is why I recommend the tuner kit opposed to the complete kit. Initially I bought the complete ATI kit and had to back track.
ATI is a better choice for someone wanting to run 9 psi or more based on the size of the I/C and the impeller redline alone. The ATI tuner kit is less expensive than the complete vortech kit and allows the consumer to chose the form of timing/fuel rather than being forced into useing a prehistoric/generic method that can be unsafe at 9psi or more.
Hopefully this comes off a little better. I am not bashing vortech. I simply don't think it competes well against the ati kit. If on the other hand vortech started selling a bigger i/c and also built the blower with a higher impeller redline... then there would be a closer comparision. Instead they targeted a different market and are doing a good job satisfying that market. This is why I asked cloudy what his goals were...
This is why I recommend the tuner kit opposed to the complete kit. Initially I bought the complete ATI kit and had to back track.
ATI is a better choice for someone wanting to run 9 psi or more based on the size of the I/C and the impeller redline alone. The ATI tuner kit is less expensive than the complete vortech kit and allows the consumer to chose the form of timing/fuel rather than being forced into useing a prehistoric/generic method that can be unsafe at 9psi or more.
Hopefully this comes off a little better. I am not bashing vortech. I simply don't think it competes well against the ati kit. If on the other hand vortech started selling a bigger i/c and also built the blower with a higher impeller redline... then there would be a closer comparision. Instead they targeted a different market and are doing a good job satisfying that market. This is why I asked cloudy what his goals were...
08-31-2004, 08:02 PM
#42
Ok i want to push it to 9psi, MAYBE 10.
I talked to someone today, they were saying that the vortech is easier to tune, and better to tune then the ATI kit, also big advantage cause you can do the laptop tune thing.
I was leaning on going with the vortech, then whenever whosdady post, he always says something that makes me want an ATI again.. lol
I talked to someone today, they were saying that the vortech is easier to tune, and better to tune then the ATI kit, also big advantage cause you can do the laptop tune thing.
I was leaning on going with the vortech, then whenever whosdady post, he always says something that makes me want an ATI again.. lol
08-31-2004, 08:40 PM
#43
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Ill chime in with what kit has the highest engine failures... UMM ATI...
Facts are facts, ATI's kit is flat out dangerous out of the box. IT HAS TO HAVE all the extras Whosdaddy speaks of, or you will blow the motor up.
Whosdaddy says go ATI and add a fuel pump, add this that and well spend more money. If the ATI is a BETTER option then WHY doesnt it come with all those extra items?
The Vortech is the most complete and offers the most bang for the buck.
I am not bashing ATI, they make a good product.......but its NOT safe out the box and thats a proven fact.
Facts are facts, ATI's kit is flat out dangerous out of the box. IT HAS TO HAVE all the extras Whosdaddy speaks of, or you will blow the motor up.
Whosdaddy says go ATI and add a fuel pump, add this that and well spend more money. If the ATI is a BETTER option then WHY doesnt it come with all those extra items?
The Vortech is the most complete and offers the most bang for the buck.
I am not bashing ATI, they make a good product.......but its NOT safe out the box and thats a proven fact.
09-01-2004, 12:40 AM
#44
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Originally posted by ColecatZ
Pedro, Your numbers interest me. now that I’m thinking about it. I was there when your Stillen headers and Cat-back were installed, and it seems like I remembered reading somewhere that two of the supercharger install instructions ( I beleive Stillen and HKS) stated NOT to run aftermarket headers.
It has been speculated that this was do to the lack pressure not allowing the blower to generate the intended boost. I think someone on here even proved that they picked up 1 psi of boost swapping from test pipes to high flow cats, do to back pressure.
Since you are seeing 410rwhp….did you do this with the headers and testpipes. If so, are you seeing a true 9lbs?
Vortech is looking like my planned route, if I don’t go single turbo, but I want to get all my facts straight and my DC headers are itching to be installed.
Thanks for any input.
Pedro, Your numbers interest me. now that I’m thinking about it. I was there when your Stillen headers and Cat-back were installed, and it seems like I remembered reading somewhere that two of the supercharger install instructions ( I beleive Stillen and HKS) stated NOT to run aftermarket headers.
It has been speculated that this was do to the lack pressure not allowing the blower to generate the intended boost. I think someone on here even proved that they picked up 1 psi of boost swapping from test pipes to high flow cats, do to back pressure.
Since you are seeing 410rwhp….did you do this with the headers and testpipes. If so, are you seeing a true 9lbs?
Vortech is looking like my planned route, if I don’t go single turbo, but I want to get all my facts straight and my DC headers are itching to be installed.
Thanks for any input.
. So far ther has been no need for different injectors, fuel pumps, or any need to rebuild any part of my engine. I have 3K on my vortech right now and it is still running smooth and have had absolutely no problems with it. My belts still look new and no oil leak (which has been cause on several cars because of the fact that those installing it were not using the propper tools ). I thank John at Grubbs Infiniti for doing the install and tuning, he did an awsome job. I have seen before/after dyno sheets on F/I Z's with aftermarket plenums and there was 2hp diff. If anything I will get my stock plenum polished to match my piping. I am extremely happy with the power it puts down. My whole goal initially was to hit 400, I have done that and am very pleased. If people feel the need to go more, moe power to them and good luck. My advice is to set a goal and do your best to achieve it. There will always be a faster car out there so I don't bother in trying to be the fastest. Set goals, reach them, and then set others. Currently I am working on revanmping my audio system. Come spring time, I will be getting a body kit, hood, and fenders. Ultimately it comes down to being satisfied with your car. If you aim to please everyone, it will never happen. I like my set-up and like my Vortech. If Mr. ATI, Greddy, or whoever likes it too, cool, if not, I don't care. I appreciate the work that anyone puts into their car. But enough preaching
. Go with your gut on what you feel will do best for YOUR needs.
09-01-2004, 05:07 AM
#45
Well alot of us are making 9lb's and some are at 10 lb's . Im making 9lb's and my aux fuel pump is not maxed out , the injectors are holding up fine . You are right about the intercooler being to smal....it does max out at 10lb's . But that is all this motor can handle with out reworking the internals . So If a guy has no plans on building up his motor and go for the big whp . This kit is perfect and complete . If you plan on building the motor....the ATI would be the better choice
09-01-2004, 05:41 AM
#46
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lorinserbenz, there is no question that ATI kits have blown more motors than vortech kits. This in case you didn't know or don't remember is because "one" shop installed/tuned the ATI kits before understanding how careful one must be while boosting. (That shop is responsible for 98% of the blown motors.) The shop sold home made ecu flashes that didn't adjust for timing and also ran more boost by raising the rev limiter. This as you know will blow any motor. I might also add this took place before Vortech was even out. Plus ATI has sold more kits to begin with so it would only make sense.
One thing you might consider is the fact that after that shop stopped experimenting (and most recently), several Vortechs have blown motors. When was the last time you heard of a blown motor with the ATI kit? I know of 3 blown vortechs in the last 2 months. I am not saying its a bad kit, I'm just informing you that either kit if not tuned properly can blow a motor. Unfortunatly, ATI was the pioneer with the Z and several guys had to learn the hard way. Also vortech has just recently within the last 4 months come out with the 9lbs pulley. ATI has had it out for over a year now. Plus the high profile cars usually push their cars to the limits to produce the highest HP numbers.
I noticed from one of your posts that you wanted Helix test pipes. They are another serious power adder when going F/I. In St. Louis they are illegal so I don't run them but you may consider this as well. I say this only because you may net 15+rwhp but you will also run the risk of running lean/and wearing out your stock injectors/fuel pump prematurely.
I can't figure out why guys keep chiming in saying that providing your own fuel/timing parts is a bad thing? Especially when the alternative is less reliable, more restrictive and uneccesary. Why be satisfied with the cheaper option that is being forced upon you? Everyone has their own goals. You will not be as happy with the complete vortech kit as you will with what I have recommended based on what you have expressed your goals to be.
How many Vortech owners have gone the turbo route? How many ATI guys have gone the turbo route? This is your answer... The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
One thing you might consider is the fact that after that shop stopped experimenting (and most recently), several Vortechs have blown motors. When was the last time you heard of a blown motor with the ATI kit? I know of 3 blown vortechs in the last 2 months. I am not saying its a bad kit, I'm just informing you that either kit if not tuned properly can blow a motor. Unfortunatly, ATI was the pioneer with the Z and several guys had to learn the hard way. Also vortech has just recently within the last 4 months come out with the 9lbs pulley. ATI has had it out for over a year now. Plus the high profile cars usually push their cars to the limits to produce the highest HP numbers.
I noticed from one of your posts that you wanted Helix test pipes. They are another serious power adder when going F/I. In St. Louis they are illegal so I don't run them but you may consider this as well. I say this only because you may net 15+rwhp but you will also run the risk of running lean/and wearing out your stock injectors/fuel pump prematurely.
I can't figure out why guys keep chiming in saying that providing your own fuel/timing parts is a bad thing? Especially when the alternative is less reliable, more restrictive and uneccesary. Why be satisfied with the cheaper option that is being forced upon you? Everyone has their own goals. You will not be as happy with the complete vortech kit as you will with what I have recommended based on what you have expressed your goals to be.
How many Vortech owners have gone the turbo route? How many ATI guys have gone the turbo route? This is your answer... The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
09-01-2004, 05:56 AM
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I forgot to add that the timing option (the SS box) is a nice addition to the vortech kit. I also think it would be a nice option if ATI included the J&S with their complete kit for those that don't want to customize it.
So if you are looking for a complete kit where you do not want to customize anything and only plan on running stock boost, the vortech kit is a better choice.
Hows this for being unbiased
So if you are looking for a complete kit where you do not want to customize anything and only plan on running stock boost, the vortech kit is a better choice.
Hows this for being unbiased
09-01-2004, 05:59 AM
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And no, I don't work for ATI, however I have called vortech and ATI several times.
Before I saw the vortech kit dyno 301rwhp I almost pulled the trigger. The lower impeller redline sealed the deal for me...
Before I saw the vortech kit dyno 301rwhp I almost pulled the trigger. The lower impeller redline sealed the deal for me...
09-01-2004, 08:36 AM
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About the cooler we are using...
It is rated for 510HP at 10psi with 1 1/2 pressure drop.
Our stock system pumps out 412HP and 8psi. Plenty of cooler to get the job done. So all the BS whosdaddy has been saying is, well, BS.
It is rated for 510HP at 10psi with 1 1/2 pressure drop.
Our stock system pumps out 412HP and 8psi. Plenty of cooler to get the job done. So all the BS whosdaddy has been saying is, well, BS.
09-01-2004, 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by booger
BOTH KITS SUCK....Get a TT and get all the hp and trq you'll ever need . .... lol .... WHosdaddy....you must work for ATI.
BOTH KITS SUCK....Get a TT and get all the hp and trq you'll ever need . .... lol .... WHosdaddy....you must work for ATI.
The only advantage either of these superchargers has over a TT is price.
09-01-2004, 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by whosdady
l
Unfortunatly, ATI was the pioneer with the Z and several guys had to learn the hard way.
l
Unfortunatly, ATI was the pioneer with the Z and several guys had to learn the hard way.
Actually I am GLAD ATI is such a PIONEER, I am sure all the other companies learned from their mistakes..... like NOT to release a incomplete package.
09-01-2004, 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by whosdady
The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
09-01-2004, 10:54 AM
#55
Well iam pretty much new to cars, ive learned everything i know about cars in the past 5days.. so which isnt much lol..
If i were to go with a TT, and only planned to push about 9-10psi your sayn i wouldnt have to rebuild my engine at all? Not the least bit to make it not blow? I wouldnt have to buy anything else besides the Greddy TT Kit w/ IC, BOV, 255lph walbro fuel pump, and just ecu flash it.
If i were to go with a TT, and only planned to push about 9-10psi your sayn i wouldnt have to rebuild my engine at all? Not the least bit to make it not blow? I wouldnt have to buy anything else besides the Greddy TT Kit w/ IC, BOV, 255lph walbro fuel pump, and just ecu flash it.
09-01-2004, 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by whosdady
How many Vortech owners have gone the turbo route? How many ATI guys have gone the turbo route? This is your answer... The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
How many Vortech owners have gone the turbo route? How many ATI guys have gone the turbo route? This is your answer... The vortech guys for whatever reason seem less satisfied or need more than what the vortech kit can offer.
BTW, I can name at least two ATI guys off the top of my head who now have the Greddy.
--Steve
09-01-2004, 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by cloudy
Well iam pretty much new to cars, ive learned everything i know about cars in the past 5days.. so which isnt much lol..
If i were to go with a TT, and only planned to push about 9-10psi your sayn i wouldnt have to rebuild my engine at all? Not the least bit to make it not blow?
Well iam pretty much new to cars, ive learned everything i know about cars in the past 5days.. so which isnt much lol..
If i were to go with a TT, and only planned to push about 9-10psi your sayn i wouldnt have to rebuild my engine at all? Not the least bit to make it not blow?
--Steve
09-01-2004, 01:57 PM
#58
Well i knew that. Theres a part of me thats sayn all i want right now is 9-10psi of boost.. But then theres something telling me down the road that i may want to build up my engine, even take out that engine and put a stronger, more powerful one so i can build up the 350z really fast. But then again, iam thinking right now, i dont know much about cars right now and a safer, not as complicated route, right now would be a SC.
The guy that is gonna be installing my SC or Turbo, whatever i choose, i printed him out all this info on each of these products, (vortech, ati, greddy tt), and gonna give me a pro and con of each item, and then iam gonna decide then. But keep all the comments coming, i still need help deciding, i appreciate everyones opinions so keep them coming, thanks everyone.
The guy that is gonna be installing my SC or Turbo, whatever i choose, i printed him out all this info on each of these products, (vortech, ati, greddy tt), and gonna give me a pro and con of each item, and then iam gonna decide then. But keep all the comments coming, i still need help deciding, i appreciate everyones opinions so keep them coming, thanks everyone.
09-01-2004, 04:10 PM
#59
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At what rpm do both, the ati and vortech, start to make boost ?
I want to get one but I'd like to know this before I choose.
Both are good so this would help .
I want to get one but I'd like to know this before I choose.
Both are good so this would help .