Toasted my fuel injectors
09-07-2004, 06:25 PM
#21
That's the whole flaw of the design. I imagine they are running at 100% duty cycle very quicly...and then couple that with 90psi of pressure is just a recipe for failure. Sounds like your seals were leaking, and the IS a result of too much pressure....no question about that.
Yes, I've seen many cars running 100psi of pressure, but its not ideal at all. It is a workaround. The correct theory is to get an injector that is big enough to work at 80% duty cycle at a reasonable 50-60psi of pressure, and a fuel system that can supply the fuel at those levels. That is the way to go.
Yes, I've seen many cars running 100psi of pressure, but its not ideal at all. It is a workaround. The correct theory is to get an injector that is big enough to work at 80% duty cycle at a reasonable 50-60psi of pressure, and a fuel system that can supply the fuel at those levels. That is the way to go.
09-07-2004, 06:38 PM
#22
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Mounting hole?
You mean the o-ring that seals between the injector and the lower intake manifold?
You mean the o-ring that seals between the injector and the lower intake manifold?
Originally posted by dfw350z
The seals on the injectors where they meet the mounting hole were leaking. That is why I am replacing them.
The seals on the injectors where they meet the mounting hole were leaking. That is why I am replacing them.
09-07-2004, 08:09 PM
#23
Originally posted by Mike@Altered
Ed,
When people are refering to "380cc reflash" they are most likely talking about the Technosquare flash program for the PE 380cc injectors.
You have a custom AAM flash for your ATI Procharger/440cc injectors/AAM Return Fuel System. The program is similar to the flash I made for my 350Z with the 7psi ATI Procherger/440cc injectors/AAM fuel system, with minor adjustments made on the dyno for your pulley upgrade and your particular car.
Hope this helps,
Ed,
When people are refering to "380cc reflash" they are most likely talking about the Technosquare flash program for the PE 380cc injectors.
You have a custom AAM flash for your ATI Procharger/440cc injectors/AAM Return Fuel System. The program is similar to the flash I made for my 350Z with the 7psi ATI Procherger/440cc injectors/AAM fuel system, with minor adjustments made on the dyno for your pulley upgrade and your particular car.
Hope this helps,
09-07-2004, 09:08 PM
#24
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Save Your Old Injectors.. They Can Be tested..
Originally posted by dfw350z
The seals on the injectors where they meet the mounting hole were leaking. That is why I am replacing them.
The seals on the injectors where they meet the mounting hole were leaking. That is why I am replacing them.
1. No FPR
2. Leaking at O-Rings Because of No FPR and Inline Pump?
DFW - I don't know exactly what to say... Nothing..
09-07-2004, 09:39 PM
#25
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I'm glad to see that several vortech guys are reading this thread... I am trying to hold back from saying.... I told you...
Now do you believe me about the stock fuel pump and stock injectors? If you plan on running more than 8 psi on the this kit, it is much safer to upgrade injectors and the fuel pump. Will it work without doing this? Yes. Will it work longer than a few months? Probably not.
Lets hope there was no other damage to this car from bad injectors.
Now do you believe me about the stock fuel pump and stock injectors? If you plan on running more than 8 psi on the this kit, it is much safer to upgrade injectors and the fuel pump. Will it work without doing this? Yes. Will it work longer than a few months? Probably not.
Lets hope there was no other damage to this car from bad injectors.
09-08-2004, 07:10 AM
#27
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He wont be the last... It was kind of like the blown motor epidemic we had this summer, right before the forged internal group buy. Z and G owners started boosting a little higher and several engines bit the dust in mid august after a couple months of high boosting enjoyment.
I can't understand why some people don't see this (stock injectors and stock fuel pump) as a ticking time bomb. I would be pretty concerned if this happened to someone already. Just wait until it gets a little colder outside and you hit 9+psi...
I can't understand why some people don't see this (stock injectors and stock fuel pump) as a ticking time bomb. I would be pretty concerned if this happened to someone already. Just wait until it gets a little colder outside and you hit 9+psi...
09-08-2004, 07:39 AM
#28
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Like I've said, it's not the fuel pressure. We(Maximas) have been running these DEKA injectors, since 2000 withOUT any reported issues.
I suspect he's having a seal problem, which DOES happen pretty often when people run high manifold pressures and the seals aren't properly installed.
If he does an impedance check on the "bad" injectors and that's fine, I'd send one or two prime canidates for $14/each to http://www.ptrsds.com/injectservice.html to be tested.
I still call BS, but he could just have bad luck....I guess.
I suspect he's having a seal problem, which DOES happen pretty often when people run high manifold pressures and the seals aren't properly installed.
If he does an impedance check on the "bad" injectors and that's fine, I'd send one or two prime canidates for $14/each to http://www.ptrsds.com/injectservice.html to be tested.
I still call BS, but he could just have bad luck....I guess.
09-08-2004, 08:28 AM
#30
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I'm not sure what cold has to do with leaking injectors, however at 380rwhp level, he needs larger injectors as people have been saying.
Right now with 90psi fuel pressure, optimistic BSFC=.50, and all 290cc's, he's on the verge of the injectors going static.
He would not be wise to reinstall stock sized injectors. I just don't think what his installer is calling "bad injectors" is what I'd call bad.
Right now with 90psi fuel pressure, optimistic BSFC=.50, and all 290cc's, he's on the verge of the injectors going static.
He would not be wise to reinstall stock sized injectors. I just don't think what his installer is calling "bad injectors" is what I'd call bad.
09-08-2004, 09:19 AM
#32
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PE 510s....and stock fuel pressure.
380s wouldn't be worthwhile IMO. Your fuel pressure and/or duty cycle will still be high.
440s will be fine/good, but you'll need to boost fuel pressure a bit to keep recommended "safe" duty cycle.
I like stock fuel pressure, because it's stable, easy to tune, and easy on injectors and you don't need a booster pump or FPR.
The only reason people choose PE380s is for the TS convienence, otherwise 510s and 500bhp is safe and leaves room to grow.
380s wouldn't be worthwhile IMO. Your fuel pressure and/or duty cycle will still be high.
440s will be fine/good, but you'll need to boost fuel pressure a bit to keep recommended "safe" duty cycle.
I like stock fuel pressure, because it's stable, easy to tune, and easy on injectors and you don't need a booster pump or FPR.
The only reason people choose PE380s is for the TS convienence, otherwise 510s and 500bhp is safe and leaves room to grow.
09-08-2004, 01:55 PM
#33
510s damn, and the factory ones are ~300? thats quite a jump,
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
09-08-2004, 02:07 PM
#34
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Originally posted by tig488
510s damn, and the factory ones are ~300? thats quite a jump,
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
510s damn, and the factory ones are ~300? thats quite a jump,
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
09-08-2004, 02:10 PM
#35
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510's are too much for those running 10 psi or less with a supercharger. It will not work unless you have the emanage. Many guys with turbos running 550+rwhp have them but they are running a lot more boost. I had 720's with my supra...
Initially I felt the RC 440's would be a good compromise but chose the 380's. If I had a turbo and was going to run more than 10psi I would have gone with the 440's.
As far as the cold weather... You will be happy to note your supercharger will be more efficient and will feel much stronger in the cold weather. That being said, there will be more stress on the injectors to keep up with the added efficiency.
Initially I felt the RC 440's would be a good compromise but chose the 380's. If I had a turbo and was going to run more than 10psi I would have gone with the 440's.
As far as the cold weather... You will be happy to note your supercharger will be more efficient and will feel much stronger in the cold weather. That being said, there will be more stress on the injectors to keep up with the added efficiency.
09-08-2004, 02:20 PM
#36
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287bhp-->500bhp~~74% jump
290cc---->510cc~~~76% jump
eManage can control them, so should the SS-box. You'll just need to adjust the whole fuel map by X% vs. the eManage automatically subtracting X% for you.
I'm not sure what you mean by "hold back", because other then at idle, it won't be an issue.
290cc---->510cc~~~76% jump
eManage can control them, so should the SS-box. You'll just need to adjust the whole fuel map by X% vs. the eManage automatically subtracting X% for you.
I'm not sure what you mean by "hold back", because other then at idle, it won't be an issue.
Originally posted by tig488
510s damn, and the factory ones are ~300? thats quite a jump,
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
510s damn, and the factory ones are ~300? thats quite a jump,
so if im using the ss fuel/timing box, and i get some 510s, how do i know the box will be able to control the injectors, with the 510s i guess the box will have to "hold back" the higher injectors.
09-08-2004, 02:21 PM
#37
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You mean high impedance, right?
Originally posted by dfw350z
I would go with my setup of 440 low impedance injectors. Grubbs has already tested this configuration with the G35 + SS box and everything works fine.
I would go with my setup of 440 low impedance injectors. Grubbs has already tested this configuration with the G35 + SS box and everything works fine.
09-08-2004, 02:30 PM
#38
what i mean is that with the factory injectors the ss box is adding more fuel than taking so if i add bigger injectors more fuel will be going in, so ill have to rely on the ss box to "hold back" more fuel so the car wont run pig rich all the time. i just dont know if the ss box can do that.
09-08-2004, 02:40 PM
#39
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That's also because you're using an aux fuel pump and "washer" to ramp up fuel pressure per boost.
With stock fuel pressure, you'll be adding fuel, but hopefully not past the 80% duty cycle point.
There are more then one way to skin a cat here:
1)290cc + HIGH fuel pressure increase.
2)380cc + Medium fuel pressure increase.
3)440cc + Low fuel pressure increase.
4)510cc + STOCK fuel pressure.
With stock fuel pressure, you'll be adding fuel, but hopefully not past the 80% duty cycle point.
There are more then one way to skin a cat here:
1)290cc + HIGH fuel pressure increase.
2)380cc + Medium fuel pressure increase.
3)440cc + Low fuel pressure increase.
4)510cc + STOCK fuel pressure.
Originally posted by tig488
what i mean is that with the factory injectors the ss box is adding more fuel than taking so if i add bigger injectors more fuel will be going in, so ill have to rely on the ss box to "hold back" more fuel so the car wont run pig rich all the time. i just dont know if the ss box can do that.
what i mean is that with the factory injectors the ss box is adding more fuel than taking so if i add bigger injectors more fuel will be going in, so ill have to rely on the ss box to "hold back" more fuel so the car wont run pig rich all the time. i just dont know if the ss box can do that.