Mystery exhaust smoke? Need your help!
10-03-2004, 09:09 PM
#41
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Originally posted by jcn30127
Stick your (or get a friend to) nose right into the smoke at the exhaust tip. You'll know from the smell if it is oil or coolant. Aslo, hold your hand in front of the exhaust to see if water will condensate on it.
Also, look for:
Once I saw an engine that smoked only when the rings on a certain piston lined up a certain way. Since the rings rotate around the piston (I'm not sure how much is normal) the car would smoke only when the rings happend to be in a certain alignment.
After or during a "smoking session", pull the plugs and inspect them. Since something IS BURNING you should be able to identify it.
Stick your (or get a friend to) nose right into the smoke at the exhaust tip. You'll know from the smell if it is oil or coolant. Aslo, hold your hand in front of the exhaust to see if water will condensate on it.
Also, look for:
- smoke coming out of your dipstick hole or pvc hole.
>>> No smoke coming out. - Bubbles in your coolant with the car running.
>>> No bubbles. - Oil residue in the intake tube.
>>> No oil residue. - Low oil or coolant level.
>>> Oil was a little low, yes. - Unusual temperature readings.
>>> None. - Drain your oil and/or your coolant and examine it closely.
>>> Have not done that.
Once I saw an engine that smoked only when the rings on a certain piston lined up a certain way. Since the rings rotate around the piston (I'm not sure how much is normal) the car would smoke only when the rings happend to be in a certain alignment.
After or during a "smoking session", pull the plugs and inspect them. Since something IS BURNING you should be able to identify it.
10-05-2004, 05:13 PM
#42
do you have a BOV installed? i thought you did.. right?
i dunno if gurgen had one installed.. but maybe with such high boost, it is the turbo seal leaking due to turbo back surge?
i dunno... i havent noticed any smoke at all from my exhausts.. but then again.. i'm always in the cockpit and not watching my car drive from behind..
what's the official word from 'PE' ?
sorry about the trouble Slay-
--Cheston
i dunno if gurgen had one installed.. but maybe with such high boost, it is the turbo seal leaking due to turbo back surge?
i dunno... i havent noticed any smoke at all from my exhausts.. but then again.. i'm always in the cockpit and not watching my car drive from behind..
what's the official word from 'PE' ?
sorry about the trouble Slay-
--Cheston
10-05-2004, 06:51 PM
#43
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I haven't spoken to PE, maybe you can PM me a phone# of someone I can talk to.
And yeah, I got an HKS SSQV BOV soon as I put the kit on.
Gonna run a leakdown test & coolant pressure test in a few days.
-slay
And yeah, I got an HKS SSQV BOV soon as I put the kit on.
Gonna run a leakdown test & coolant pressure test in a few days.
-slay
10-08-2004, 01:53 PM
#44
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NEW DEVELOPMENTS:
Ran 2 more tests today:
1] Leakdown test
2] Coolant pressure test
Everything came out normal. Big surprise. The cylinders have about 3% leak through the rings @ 90psi, which is normal according to my shop. It's also consistent across all cylinders. And the pressure test didn't leak any pressure either.
The good news is my motor is perfectly healthy. Bad news is I still get smoke. Oh well, guess I should just get a catch can ?
Ran 2 more tests today:
1] Leakdown test
2] Coolant pressure test
Everything came out normal. Big surprise. The cylinders have about 3% leak through the rings @ 90psi, which is normal according to my shop. It's also consistent across all cylinders. And the pressure test didn't leak any pressure either.
The good news is my motor is perfectly healthy. Bad news is I still get smoke. Oh well, guess I should just get a catch can ?
10-08-2004, 02:18 PM
#45
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another thing is PE has shitty manifolds and down pipes and if you have a NON stock exhaust that DOES NOT have the flex tubes in it them you tend to stress the manifolds on the turbos.Just a thought maybee the stress caused a small crack or seal to go bad in the turbos???
10-08-2004, 08:52 PM
#47
Originally posted by Daking350z
another thing is PE has shitty manifolds and down pipes and if you have a NON stock exhaust that DOES NOT have the flex tubes in it them you tend to stress the manifolds on the turbos.Just a thought maybee the stress caused a small crack or seal to go bad in the turbos???
another thing is PE has shitty manifolds and down pipes and if you have a NON stock exhaust that DOES NOT have the flex tubes in it them you tend to stress the manifolds on the turbos.Just a thought maybee the stress caused a small crack or seal to go bad in the turbos???
10-08-2004, 09:54 PM
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Gurgen,
I think your case and mine are a bit different. I remember pics you took when you took the intake tube off, with oil being in there. I never had oil deposits anywhere.
Do you think that maybe my issue is something totally different ? Why are all the tests coming back normal ?
I think your case and mine are a bit different. I remember pics you took when you took the intake tube off, with oil being in there. I never had oil deposits anywhere.
Do you think that maybe my issue is something totally different ? Why are all the tests coming back normal ?
10-08-2004, 11:47 PM
#49
Slay, my test came back normal too. Granted...it was only the compression and not the leakdown test.
I really do not know what else to say... mine may have been smoking occasionally and I had not noticed it until it became more pronounced.... the scariest part is that it happened to me without any warning.
I really do not know what else to say... mine may have been smoking occasionally and I had not noticed it until it became more pronounced.... the scariest part is that it happened to me without any warning.
10-13-2004, 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by Chebosto
um. even though PE isnt the greatest company to work with, i do have to disagree with the statement about the exhaust manifolds being shitty... they were extremely well made for my kit....
um. even though PE isnt the greatest company to work with, i do have to disagree with the statement about the exhaust manifolds being shitty... they were extremely well made for my kit....
But thats irrelivant..What I am saying is perhaps the fact that his exhaust has no "flex" sections in it like the stock ones (I know PE has one or two manifold failures and voids the warranty on them if you have an aftermarket exhaust on the car without the "flex" section). So perhaps his exhaust moved or he bottomed out causing strain on the turbo housing and downpipe, and this was enough to break something in the turbo's causing and oil leak..They do have oil lines going to them correct..Just a theory at this point but remember your turbo IS basically bolted up to your exhaust..
10-13-2004, 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by Daking350z
Just a theory at this point but remember your turbo IS basically bolted up to your exhaust..
Just a theory at this point but remember your turbo IS basically bolted up to your exhaust..
Ugh, No. It is literally bolted directly to the exhaust. I do agree with the manifold statement, cast manifolds are much better for a daily driven car. Slay, Install a catch can man. It's like $50. If your still seeing smoke parhaps one of your turbos went bad and it squirting oil into the intake/ic. Did you try removing the charge pipe before the MAF? Give that a shot.
10-13-2004, 03:21 PM
#53
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ETX, interesting suggestions, but being that I'm a mechanical newbie let me ask you these questions.
What precisely would be the job of the catch can ? What kind of things would it "catch", heh. I've heard of "blowby" but am not sure what causes that.
Anyway, the charge pipe before the MAF ? By that you mean the air intake pipe ? If so they removed it and looked for oil, there was no traces of it. Is that what you meant ?
What precisely would be the job of the catch can ? What kind of things would it "catch", heh. I've heard of "blowby" but am not sure what causes that.
Anyway, the charge pipe before the MAF ? By that you mean the air intake pipe ? If so they removed it and looked for oil, there was no traces of it. Is that what you meant ?
10-13-2004, 03:39 PM
#54
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Sorry to hear of the smoke issue Slay ...
I don't post in the FI section much, because ... well, I don't have FI! LOL
! I was there to witness Gurgen's smoking issue. In fact, it was yours truly that first noted the issue, which up until then no one was aware of.
Anyhow, your symptoms as described is indeed EXACTLY what's going on with Gurgen's. The two of you are simply caught up on some descriptive semantics.
Here's what I know and believe ...
It's not the pistons or the head gasket. You will have seen smoke while revving, if the case. The commpression and leak down tests seem to also support this ... to no surprise.
It can't be a coolant leak either, because I too was looking for the very distinctive coolant smell at the scene. No dice! The color of the smoke also indicates otherwise. I've seen all kinds of smokes back in the race car development days ... it was most definitely from oil.
The suggenstion that it may be condensation is a total non-issue. There will be no condensation once the car is warmed up. The exhaust tract is simply too hot to have condensation.
My fingers are pointing at the turbos themselves. Bad oil seals perhaps.
From that, the smoking issue probably did not have any play in Gurgen's engine letting go ... just a freaky coincident I suppose. None the less, don't think you're invincible for the time being. Good Luck and may the force be with you!
I don't post in the FI section much, because ... well, I don't have FI! LOL
! I was there to witness Gurgen's smoking issue. In fact, it was yours truly that first noted the issue, which up until then no one was aware of.Anyhow, your symptoms as described is indeed EXACTLY what's going on with Gurgen's. The two of you are simply caught up on some descriptive semantics.
Here's what I know and believe ...
It's not the pistons or the head gasket. You will have seen smoke while revving, if the case. The commpression and leak down tests seem to also support this ... to no surprise.
It can't be a coolant leak either, because I too was looking for the very distinctive coolant smell at the scene. No dice! The color of the smoke also indicates otherwise. I've seen all kinds of smokes back in the race car development days ... it was most definitely from oil.
The suggenstion that it may be condensation is a total non-issue. There will be no condensation once the car is warmed up. The exhaust tract is simply too hot to have condensation.
My fingers are pointing at the turbos themselves. Bad oil seals perhaps.
From that, the smoking issue probably did not have any play in Gurgen's engine letting go ... just a freaky coincident I suppose. None the less, don't think you're invincible for the time being. Good Luck and may the force be with you!
10-13-2004, 03:56 PM
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Hey thanks for the reply THX.
I don't know if you know but my car does blow tons of white smoke when I free-rev it. Also there is no sign of burning oil because the smoke is pure white/grey with no hint of blue.
My shop mechanic said he does not think it's the turbo seals because the smoke is pure white and the turbos themselves looked pretty clean when they checked out the general area. I don't think they disassembled anything though, so its still a possibility I suppose.
Let me know what you think..
I don't know if you know but my car does blow tons of white smoke when I free-rev it. Also there is no sign of burning oil because the smoke is pure white/grey with no hint of blue.
My shop mechanic said he does not think it's the turbo seals because the smoke is pure white and the turbos themselves looked pretty clean when they checked out the general area. I don't think they disassembled anything though, so its still a possibility I suppose.
Let me know what you think..
10-13-2004, 04:34 PM
#56
Well, there would not be any any signs of turbos leaking on the outside. When Clint (THX) and I were watching my car, you do not see a very apparent tint of blue when there is oil burning... it is very subtle instead.
I still think that it is an oil issue.... I hope that things will be clearer one we take our engine apart....
But, as I said before, the symptoms of my car and yours are nearly IDENTICAl - it is just uncanny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still think that it is an oil issue.... I hope that things will be clearer one we take our engine apart....
But, as I said before, the symptoms of my car and yours are nearly IDENTICAl - it is just uncanny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10-13-2004, 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by slay2k
I don't know if you know but my car does blow tons of white smoke when I free-rev it. Also there is no sign of burning oil because the smoke is pure white/grey with no hint of blue.
I don't know if you know but my car does blow tons of white smoke when I free-rev it. Also there is no sign of burning oil because the smoke is pure white/grey with no hint of blue.
10-13-2004, 04:56 PM
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THX,
Oops no you're right, I thought you meant something else. It does occur a few seconds AFTER revving.
Think it's related to the turbo seals ? hm.
Thanks.
Oops no you're right, I thought you meant something else. It does occur a few seconds AFTER revving.
Think it's related to the turbo seals ? hm.
Thanks.
10-13-2004, 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by slay2k
THX,
Oops no you're right, I thought you meant something else. It does occur a few seconds AFTER revving.
Think it's related to the turbo seals ? hm.
Thanks.
THX,
Oops no you're right, I thought you meant something else. It does occur a few seconds AFTER revving.
Think it's related to the turbo seals ? hm.
Thanks.
Yes, the smoke is virtually white in appearance. Although at times ... they have a slight blue tint to them (as Gurgen described). Not all oil smoke is has blue in it. It depends on the amount and temperature it was burnt at. White ... generally means the oil was subjected to very very high temp ... again, pointing at the red hot turbos.
10-13-2004, 07:05 PM
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Okay cool... what has to be done to check the turbo seals ? Does everything have to be taken apart ?
On a side note, maybe you can explain to me exactly what a catch-can does since nobody else has done it so far ;]
On a side note, maybe you can explain to me exactly what a catch-can does since nobody else has done it so far ;]