mcduck

I don't recall there being a "center section" to the gasket, but it's been a while since I installed the plenum so maybe I'm just remembering it wrong.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see on the independent test then. I'm not putting at risk a motor I have over well over $15K invested in just so your product can be validated or dismissed. There is no Red Herring involved. It is simply a testament to your faith in your own product. What you're telling me is that you don't believe in your product enough, at least not yet, to offer such a guarantee.

It's not like I just started posting on this forum. You can do a search or ask for verification from any long standing members here. I've been here a long time and my car has been Vorteched with the listed mods (easily verified) since last March. In that time in excess of 15K miles have been logged, actually probably over 16K which can be verified by the install shops records of the work on my car. I simply want assurance if we change exactly one element... the plenum/spacer... and the worst case happens that I'm not out thousands of dollars because I was trying to be nice guy and help you prove your product.

If you can't extend that courtesy in the interest of growing your business its your loss, not mine.

We already know what a Vortech car with Crawford products on it can do.... no one has yet posted higher Vortech HP numbers than me with the stock Vortech pulleys. 'Nuff said.

edit: tried to post my 425hp dyno, but getting some error message from my350z. Will be happy to post it on another forum or email it if anyone wants to see it.

copba1t

iTrader: (2)

I don't think someone's unwillingness to guarantee your engine (that may already be trashed and has who know's what done to it) has anything to do with faith in their own product, I think it has more to do with common sense. That would be just asking for trouble IMO, and is the same reason that nobody else will agree to it either =)

mcduck

I would gladly place my motor up against a Vortech installed one finished just yesterday. My car has not been trashed. It has been driven hard, but with that always properly and meticulously maintained... and I can easily provide a history of what has been done to it, mod for mod.

Simply put, I would dyno my car as is first which easily verifies the car is still running soundly and safely and establishes our baseline target. After which, the single part in question would be swapped and it would be rerun on the dyno. In that 30 minute span of time only one thing could cause the motor to fail.

As is, let's just wait on some other to venture out there and prove they either got a good deal on some cheap horsepower or wasted their money. Our debate back and forth is not really furthering this thread and its obvious Hydracide is not willing to offer this simple guarantee.

In the meantime, I'll sit back and wait to see if a Vorteched Z using a plenum spacer ever even comes close to my the power my car has put down.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

I'm sure your car is bad ***. I wish I could have the same, but this last sentence doesn't make for a scientific comparison of plenum mods.

But hey its OK, others have taken up the offer.

Results will be posted.

Tony Colette
Motordyne

copba1t

iTrader: (2)

The back and forth happens when there is too much bias and mis-information and it needs to get cleared up.

If the guarantee is so "simple" to offer, then why doesn't Crawford warranty your entire engine when you put on their plenum? Suggesting such a thing is ridiculous and does not really give your argument credibility, and actually makes it look pretty silly.

I do agree this particular discussion is getting pointless, as you are sounding more and more like just another Crawford cheerleader. I personally couldn't care less how the spacer tests on a Vortech and you don't really seem to be offering a subjective view anyway. Good luck with your setup, it sounds like a very fast ride.

mcduck

Hydrazine,
I offered to perform the scientific comparison you suggested complete with unbiased witnesses (non 350Z Z-owners). I called your bluff (meant as a figure of speech, don't read too much into that) and the offer was declined.

It sounds like you have some others with NA cars willing to run independent tests so I'll be interested in seeing the results.

copba1t,
Hmm... if supporting a product you believe in because it produces proven results, then yes... I am a cheerleader for Crawford. Their products produce as advertised and I'm quite happy with them. BTW, I'm also a cheerleader for Nissan (thanks, guys, for making the Z car again), for Kenwood (love my Double DIN DVD player), for Nismo (thank you for the great looking and functional bodykit), and very much so for CHL Motorsports in Charlotte, NC (thank you Mark for all your fantastic work on my car... Vortech now at 16K miles with zero issues...none... nada! YAAAAAY!)

Back to the matter at hand, Crawford didn't have to offer me a warranty, I knew exactly what I was getting into with them and I assumed the risk. I was willing to do this because I was 100% certain a plenum replacement or header replacement was not going to destroy my expensive Nissan high performance motor.

Nor did I expect Vortech to warranty my motor... it was running fine with the bolton mods which had not been tested with the Vortech. I took the risk because I felt reasonably sure (not 100%, but still high) that the car could be tuned to run safely.

In the interim, many motors did blow as a result of a leanout condition in the #5 or #6 cylinder as a result of too little air fuel and/or inadequate tuning.

This is a known factor and the stock plenum contributes to it. Again, my car has ran perfectly with the Vortech and Crawford bolt-ons for over 16K miles. I couldn't have had a better running motor if I had kept it completely stock and did every single regular maintanence as defined in the owners manual. I'm now being offered to introduce a factor that would upset that balance and has been known to contribute to blown motors. Yes, I want a guarantee to do this.

If an electronics company said, "hey we want you to try this new high capacity battery for your cellphone on free trial basis and give us feedback. It'll give you approximately an extra 1-2 hours of phone charge. Oh... and there is a 15% chance it will melt the electronics of your phone making it inoperabale"

You would either
A) look at them like they've grown a third head
B) tell them "no thank you, I like having a phone that works"
or
C) say, "If my phone does incur damage from the new battery, you will give me a new one right?"

This is no different.... well... actually it is different because we're not talking about a $200 cellphone, we're talking about a $20K+ motor.

Back to Hydrazine...
copba1t's inane comments aside... I was just trying to be helpful. I really do hope your product works as advertised. It's better to have more options than fewer as it fuels competition and almost always lowers final prices to the consumer.

I just prefer a claim be more substantiated than "one test which we had a hand in, thus not being independent". Crawford has proof of dozens if not hundreds of dynos to back their products. At this point, Kinetix probably has the same.

Good Luck with your product! I look forward to seeing some dynos from my350z.com members.

Brandon@Forged

Moved.