Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

well I'll plat Captain Obvious:

1. the S2k application is WAY easier than the Z - they do not have a mid, upper and lower plenum to contend with

2. they don't have drive by wire to contend with

3. they have 4 cylinders, we have 6

4. why "should there be a kit out already"? Overall S2k owners are FAR more interested in performance, in my experience, than the Z crowd. Most Z owners who modify go so far as wheels, body kits and by and large, that is all. There are far more heavily modded S2k's out there (not o mention they had cars 4 years before we did)

5. the S2k does not have a CAN network to contend with (see #2)


I am sure there are other reasons as well - those just jump off the top of my head

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

I think the fact that they had the car 4 years before us plays into this a lot. Theres still tons of development to be done on the Z before we have the knowledge they do. That motor has been mapped and tested to no end. They have clear knowledge of how far to take each mod and what it can do for them. We dont even know whats causing are built motors to die yet. Plus of course the aftermarket is PACKED with parts for the s2k. I'm not saying we are limited but they have a LOT more parts available to them. Not to mention working on that engine is a bit easier then the VQ.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Mia - oh come on now man, sure we do

But yes I think it plays alot into it as well

Not to mention, that in the motherland, the S2k is reveared as an NA beast, as it is light enough and "tossable" enough to make it an awesome track day car - hence the NA development programs are strong. With the Z - not so much

mario60185

it cant be hard to try....thats my point....has anyone even tried? cant be too hard to do...wheres someone with alot of money??

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Lol...yeah whats killing them is too much boost I hear you though about the S2k it really has a HUGE following back in Japan and that helps...hopefully as we see more 350Zs get used by drift and race teams over there we'll see an increase in aftermarket support for the Z. But yeah until people over there love the Z like they do the S2k (not likely to happen soon) we get to do baby steps...

mario60185

seems to me the z is already being used by alot of companies>> am i wrong?

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Not as many as the S2K...

03Screamer

iTrader: (2)

Here's my opinion on the matter. The reason we haven't seen ITB's used on our motors yet is because of the succesfullness of the FI market. To take full advantage of ITB's on our cars, the engine would have to be built to rev to at least 8000rpms, big cams and hd valvetrain, head work, oil pump, high flowing exhaust, all which is FAR from cheap. I'd imagine that with ITB's the car would be capable of close to 400whp NA if everything was optimized. Add everything up though, and the cost is way more than doing a twin turbo set up on a stock motor. Parts to take advantage of the ITB's would cost around 10 grand not to mention the cost of the Individual throttle body unit itself. It would be cheaper to just install a FI system, S/C or Turbo and be at 450whp safely on the stock block, for way less money. There definately is no substitute for the driving pleasure and sound that comes from driving a high strung NA motor, but the NA route is definately not ideal if you're trying to get good power for your money. I hope this puts everything into perspective.

mario60185

why does everyone think you need extensive engine work to put itb's to use?

03Screamer

iTrader: (2)

Our motors from the factory, aren't designed to use ITB's, in the way that the internals of the engines are built. The lower end of the motor and the valve springs can't handle the stress of 8000rpm safely, the heads don't flow enough and have enough volume, nor are the stock cams capable of being efficient at those rpms. Yes, you could equip a lightley modded Z with ITB's, but there would be little benefit. You might gain 25hp and really sharp engine response, but certainly not worth the amount you'd pay for the set up. The motor must require more air trough the use of cams, headwork, and raising the motors rev limit, in order to make the ITB's increased air pontenital to be of any benefit. There's only a certain amount of air the cams and heads will allow into the CC without increased intake pressure or velocity.

mario60185

thank you ^^^ but how do we know what the air potential is in the engine? the fi guys are pushing massive amounts of air in with out problems right? so whats the difference?

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

without problems...lol. I would venture to say more have blown one motor (some have blown several) than have not blown at least one....so yeah, no issues there

The issue I was referring to Mia is, of course tuning

I dont think you need to rev the motor to 8k to take advantage of an ITB setup, though it certainly is not going to be an optimal setup for a bolt on mod- cams, headers, porting, all would be a natural part of an ITB program, and as mentioned, it gets expensive very quickly.

Again, the market just won't support it. Even FI on this car is not exactly a "popular" mod - the popular mods are reproduction body kits and wheels. Everything else is a small sliver of the market IMHO

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Actually, the S2K's make little power increase from the ITB's. It's uniformly considered a huge waste of money in the S2K world. There just isn't much power, in ITB's alone.

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

This might be true for any car on the market. FI DOMINATES any other power(minimal to medium proved performance on the track) enhancer in terms of power to cost ratio and getting your moneys worth! Everybody knows that!

The matter of fact is some people would like to add power the NA route. Sharif is comparing the Z to the S2000. I'd rather put my money on the Z for the NA route anyday that the S2000.

In terms of street/track performance it has been proven a 250whp(w/ weight redux) all motor honda could touch the 11 second barrier along with a 400whp territory FI honda on the dragstrip. Comparable times can also be proven on Buttonwillow or any other road circuit. The same can be done with the Z IMO. Many people are always willing to go the less expensive route, but a 330whp Z weighing 2900 pounds with sick azz response and a sweeter sound than any FI VQ motor which would be more fun to drive and matches performance with an FI Z on the track...I can deal with that It is only on a highway race the NA Z will lose compared to FI.

This is not a biased opinion as sky is not the limit for my wallet and i also intend of going FI myself(still undecided), but if my wallet did reach the sky...I would go all out NA route.

Armitage

iTrader: (15)

^Agreed. I've heard many mods for the S2k's actually lose hp and there are very few mods you can do to gain power, aside from cams or FI.

On a side note, $5000 is unwarranted for an ITB setup. That sounds waay to expensive.

mario60185

i cant remember what the kits name was, but i read a review on a install on one of them, the car was mildly modded and it saw almost 30 horse on the s2000...and zexy...you took the words right outta my mouth

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Zexy...I couldnt agree more....that a close to 300whp NA Z properly dialed-in, and lightened, would be a killer setup. I just think there are more cost effective ways to reach that goal, without resorting to ITB's.

Zexy

iTrader: (55)

You sir are correct I have always agreed with you.

Although you're a huge FI guy and very popular among the crowd(you're the man), you have never considered crossing NA power territory lines as a new project? I think with your high knowledgable and popularity position and view of many people/potential customers who want to make power NA-wise you should maybe discuss possible options with TWM or other manufacturers of developing a set of ITB's or more NA power products. It's just an idea

Sharif@Forged

iTrader: (92)

Hehe...I have tuned my share of 270+whp NA Z, with stock cams and heads. But I hear what you are saying.

On a more promising front, there are plenty of new plenums designs that will be making their way to market in the next 3-6 months...so stay tuned for more. 300whp NA is probably going to be a reality sooner than most think.

mario60185

what do you know?! share the secrets man!