Veilside Exhaust
02-25-2003, 04:39 PM
#21
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i dont really think VeilSide is raping people with their exhaust. For gods sake, they only offer a 10% discount on this exhaust to their wholesalers.
Your reasoning on why veilside is chargin an arm and a leg is based on false assumptions. Production actually will vary from concepts...
What is cheaper? Rolling a normal piece of titanium into a cylinder, or rolling it into that tear drop shaper.
Just because a single outlet exhaust that has 60mm piping is $690.00 does not mean that a dual exhaust should be $690x2. In fact veilside will be making a dual exhaust for the S2000, that will be the same price as the Z exhaust.
Besides, what is wrong with a company making profit on a product? Isn't that why companies exist? To make money?
Your reasoning on why veilside is chargin an arm and a leg is based on false assumptions. Production actually will vary from concepts...
What is cheaper? Rolling a normal piece of titanium into a cylinder, or rolling it into that tear drop shaper.
Just because a single outlet exhaust that has 60mm piping is $690.00 does not mean that a dual exhaust should be $690x2. In fact veilside will be making a dual exhaust for the S2000, that will be the same price as the Z exhaust.
Besides, what is wrong with a company making profit on a product? Isn't that why companies exist? To make money?
02-26-2003, 05:33 AM
#23
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1200tt,
Please tell me why the costs to produce an S2000 and 350Z vary so much. I think you're very wrong. The overall length, diameter, shape, and amount of piping may vary a bit, but the amount of necessary materials is basically the same. There are not crazy bends or anything that would make it harder to produce, so that's not an added cost. As I said, the Z has the extra pipe and can across the back, that's it. Any notion about added R&D is complete BS. They would try some different piping sizes, bends, etc like they would for any application...but wouldn't need to go to any extreme length to find something that works...surely they wouldn't even need to look for power gains as hard as they would have to with the 1.8L engine in the celica. Well, maybe they would if the ECU is more complex, but it's highly doubtful.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but all of those applications are called 'tear drop' models because of the tear drop shaped 'muffler(s).' Therefore, this is not an added cost for the Z exhaust...they all have the teardrop muffler.
I never said that making a dual exhaust should double the cost. I said the opposite in fact. The one for the Z is like a single all the way back to the muffler (just like stock).
There is nothing wrong with companies making profit. I never said that either. I think you need to reread my posts if you want to make a logical counterpoint.
Please tell me why the costs to produce an S2000 and 350Z vary so much. I think you're very wrong. The overall length, diameter, shape, and amount of piping may vary a bit, but the amount of necessary materials is basically the same. There are not crazy bends or anything that would make it harder to produce, so that's not an added cost. As I said, the Z has the extra pipe and can across the back, that's it. Any notion about added R&D is complete BS. They would try some different piping sizes, bends, etc like they would for any application...but wouldn't need to go to any extreme length to find something that works...surely they wouldn't even need to look for power gains as hard as they would have to with the 1.8L engine in the celica. Well, maybe they would if the ECU is more complex, but it's highly doubtful.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but all of those applications are called 'tear drop' models because of the tear drop shaped 'muffler(s).' Therefore, this is not an added cost for the Z exhaust...they all have the teardrop muffler.
I never said that making a dual exhaust should double the cost. I said the opposite in fact. The one for the Z is like a single all the way back to the muffler (just like stock).
There is nothing wrong with companies making profit. I never said that either. I think you need to reread my posts if you want to make a logical counterpoint.
02-26-2003, 07:45 AM
#24
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veilside is charging this much simply because they can.
its veilside not APC, their prices are not meant to be competitive they are meant to be prices for EXCLUSIVE items.
if you dont have the loot to pay, then your one less person with this exclusive exhaust system.
if you do have the loot to pay for it, then be proud because its not a product that you will see on everyother car.
franklinz
its veilside not APC, their prices are not meant to be competitive they are meant to be prices for EXCLUSIVE items.
if you dont have the loot to pay, then your one less person with this exclusive exhaust system.
if you do have the loot to pay for it, then be proud because its not a product that you will see on everyother car.
franklinz
02-26-2003, 09:16 AM
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well said fanklinz
As for my earlier statements, there was no intentional bashing, i was questioning your sense of reasoning.
As for the tear drop exhaust, it is a different shape that is veilside's own design. I've been to the Tokyo Auto Salon, ive seen the exhaust in person next to other exhausts, and you know what, it is more intricate in design. For example the Celica exhaust is $690.00 but it's axel back.
Just so you understand what I'm talking about the teardrop canister is shaped as such (excuse my lame drawing)
__
| |
\ /
compared to a regular canister that is shaped as such:
__
| |
| |
L_|
So to get that tear drop shape you cannot simply roll a regular sheet of titanium. It has to be cut exactly to shape and then cut, and then welded.
Another thing about the titanium teardrop. The grade is of aircraft grade titanium, and they are all handmade in an oxygen free environment. All made in Japan. The method of making it is expensive. These are excellent pieces of craftmenship.
If you don't want to buy it then don't. Go stick to the cheap China made JIC stuff with the messy welds. No reason to bash a company for charging $1800.00 for thier exhaust. They have that right...
All i'm saying is your remarks are based off of assumptions that are not proven to be true.
As for my earlier statements, there was no intentional bashing, i was questioning your sense of reasoning.
As for the tear drop exhaust, it is a different shape that is veilside's own design. I've been to the Tokyo Auto Salon, ive seen the exhaust in person next to other exhausts, and you know what, it is more intricate in design. For example the Celica exhaust is $690.00 but it's axel back.
Just so you understand what I'm talking about the teardrop canister is shaped as such (excuse my lame drawing)
__
| |
\ /
compared to a regular canister that is shaped as such:
__
| |
| |
L_|
So to get that tear drop shape you cannot simply roll a regular sheet of titanium. It has to be cut exactly to shape and then cut, and then welded.
Another thing about the titanium teardrop. The grade is of aircraft grade titanium, and they are all handmade in an oxygen free environment. All made in Japan. The method of making it is expensive. These are excellent pieces of craftmenship.
If you don't want to buy it then don't. Go stick to the cheap China made JIC stuff with the messy welds. No reason to bash a company for charging $1800.00 for thier exhaust. They have that right...
All i'm saying is your remarks are based off of assumptions that are not proven to be true.
02-26-2003, 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Kyle(Houston)
Matched
Matched
Kyle, you guy's have a sound clip of the exhaust. On a supra forum , dunno which one???, said that it's got a really aggressive tone.
02-26-2003, 02:24 PM
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You still aren't getting my point. I believe I already mentioned the whole 'premium brand' thing in one of my earlier posts...and yes they can charge what they want.
That's not my issue...I just don't believe that the Z version can cost $700 more than the supra version to produce. The supra version has the same teardrop shape!!! If you look at the ti exhaust for the supra, it's one of the cheaper ti ones (compared to hks ti, etc.), which places them in a value position, not a premium brand position. Maybe they are just trying to go 'upmarket' now or something. At this point though, most of that upcharge is gouging in my book, plain and simple, and can't be justified. If this exhaust performs the same as a cheaper item (in terms of sound, looks, and more importantly to me, weight reduction and power gains), I won't look at someone who buys it as lucky or exclusive...I'll think they're foolish for blowing so much money on it. If it turns out that this system adds twice as much power, sounds unbelievable, and will last much longer than any of the other brands, then I would consider it. Otherwise, it's just another overpriced piece of metal with a veilside stamp on it. For my cars, I don't buy brands...I buy products that I think are a reasonable value for the money. I guess I really should wait until I see final performance numbers before I completely pass judgement, but my guess is that I will feel the same way I do now after I see some dynos from this exhaust. My prediction...8hp gain...same as the JIC single...same as the B&B. We already knows it weighs more than the JIC single. I would bet that it will sound a lot better though...we shall see.
FranklinZ, your comment makes you sound like a victim of advertising. I have a feeling you will own a lot of BMW's if you ever have the means to do so...then you can be very proud, and you can always defend your purchase by citing 'superior german engineering' and 'vastly superior interior quality' when you get smoked. .
That's not my issue...I just don't believe that the Z version can cost $700 more than the supra version to produce. The supra version has the same teardrop shape!!! If you look at the ti exhaust for the supra, it's one of the cheaper ti ones (compared to hks ti, etc.), which places them in a value position, not a premium brand position. Maybe they are just trying to go 'upmarket' now or something. At this point though, most of that upcharge is gouging in my book, plain and simple, and can't be justified. If this exhaust performs the same as a cheaper item (in terms of sound, looks, and more importantly to me, weight reduction and power gains), I won't look at someone who buys it as lucky or exclusive...I'll think they're foolish for blowing so much money on it. If it turns out that this system adds twice as much power, sounds unbelievable, and will last much longer than any of the other brands, then I would consider it. Otherwise, it's just another overpriced piece of metal with a veilside stamp on it. For my cars, I don't buy brands...I buy products that I think are a reasonable value for the money. I guess I really should wait until I see final performance numbers before I completely pass judgement, but my guess is that I will feel the same way I do now after I see some dynos from this exhaust. My prediction...8hp gain...same as the JIC single...same as the B&B. We already knows it weighs more than the JIC single. I would bet that it will sound a lot better though...we shall see.
FranklinZ, your comment makes you sound like a victim of advertising. I have a feeling you will own a lot of BMW's if you ever have the means to do so...then you can be very proud, and you can always defend your purchase by citing 'superior german engineering' and 'vastly superior interior quality' when you get smoked. .
Last edited by J Ritt; 02-26-2003 at 02:27 PM.
02-26-2003, 05:19 PM
#30
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Can any reputible dealer deliver a Veilside Teardrop Exhaust (full Ti) to my doorstep for $1,500.00?
I am buying minute you PM me.
If not make your BEST offer. And I'll see what develops.
Otherwise I'll place my order for the Stillen on Monday (03/03/03).
I am buying minute you PM me.
If not make your BEST offer. And I'll see what develops.
Otherwise I'll place my order for the Stillen on Monday (03/03/03).
02-26-2003, 06:47 PM
#31
Originally posted by jran76
Kyle
You will match the full Ti for $1425? Or the SS+Ti for $1425?
Kyle
You will match the full Ti for $1425? Or the SS+Ti for $1425?
02-26-2003, 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Kyle(Houston)
I have not seen anyone selling the full Titanium for less then $1700 + shipping. To be honest it is almost not worth the time and effort to even sell it for that.
I have not seen anyone selling the full Titanium for less then $1700 + shipping. To be honest it is almost not worth the time and effort to even sell it for that.
04-17-2003, 04:52 AM
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You should better know this!
Veilside exhaust has been sent back on first shipment(april 4) because it does not fit properly(not cat). I waited for 3 and half months, and this is an answer I was getting it. I was pretty mad, but Veilside told me this is 2nd recall for this product.
04-17-2003, 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by aceman
The Vielside Titanium Tear Drop Exhaust for the 350Z has produced a solid 6.8 RWHP on the Dyno.
The Vielside Titanium Tear Drop Exhaust for the 350Z has produced a solid 6.8 RWHP on the Dyno.
$1800+ for 7whp. *shakes his head*Not directed at you aceman.
04-17-2003, 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by 99AllTurbo
$1800+ for 7whp. *shakes his head*
.
$1800+ for 7whp. *shakes his head*.
HEY J RITT....no BMW bashing, apparently youve never owned one, b/c if you did, you'd know its a little bit different (read:better) driving experience than your Type-R. German engineering and interiors are FAR superior to Japanese. Dont even get me started on the performance aspects....German cars are autobahn (read:highway) beasts, they're good off the line, but if you want off the line, go American..Viper, Vette, Trans Am. Jap cars try to get a little bit of both @ a good price. I love the Z, but dont compare apples to caviar.
Last edited by AAAA; 04-17-2003 at 01:12 PM.
04-23-2003, 04:36 AM
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I love the dual canister style exhausts and I want Ti, but with the prices as out of control as they are now I will wait till they drop to 1000 to 1200.
J Ritt - I agree the prices are stupid high because its for the "new hot car", but I guess thats business. They are taking mad profits while they can. If they make $200 profit on a $1000 sale, they make $1000 profit on a $1800 sale. That would mean they could sell 10 (no doubt 10 will be sold at this price) for $1800 to make $10,000 or 50 @ $1000 to make $10,000. As crapy as it is for us, I'll wait.
AAAA- Lets not get too crazy, The BMW is only 4 times more expensive too we all know there good cars.
J Ritt - I agree the prices are stupid high because its for the "new hot car", but I guess thats business. They are taking mad profits while they can. If they make $200 profit on a $1000 sale, they make $1000 profit on a $1800 sale. That would mean they could sell 10 (no doubt 10 will be sold at this price) for $1800 to make $10,000 or 50 @ $1000 to make $10,000. As crapy as it is for us, I'll wait.
AAAA- Lets not get too crazy, The BMW is only 4 times more expensive too
we all know there good cars.