Long awaited intake plenum. Lots of work....too much work.

Jason this should be on its way to you this next week.

This is the prototype, but the production version will look very similar, but more refined (couple more mounting points, better polish, etc)

Haven't determined pricing yet, but a satin sand blasted finish will save you about $125....because we hate polishing.

retain stock strut bar and engine cover, retains all factory mounting points, will work with stock intake or aftermarket, looks really cool, increased flow, go ahead and keep your stock manifold, and lastly shaves off a solid 15lbs!!

J's350z will be the first to have one and will be doing before and after dyno.

I haven't decided if I will take orders yet, because I need to catch up with previous orders of CAT pipes and camber arms before I start production. For everyone with orders watiting for shipment, I really do apologize for my lateness, but we have everything worked out now and products are being made and shipped fast now.

I know you want to know price, but I am not going to give it to you, why don't you post some numbers of what you think it's worth.

 

more pics

 

sorry about that last pic, it is supposed to show that all the runners are true mandrel bent (expensive to have aluminum mandrel bent)

 

wow....that looks nice

 

Whoa . How much flow are you getting to the cylinders? Similar to Doug's? Dyno?

 

Yeh, flow rate, power and torque output is what we want to see before any talk of price.




We already have a price bench mark with the crawford plenum so it'll come down to whether people like that look, and if it improves performance in the same way.

Great effort if you ask me. I like the custom appearance. Just don't know if others would when I have to part with the car in a few years.

 

The stock manifold will be able to be kept, and swaps out fairly easily, I would say in about 20-30 min So you can go back to stock in about a half hour!!

I should have some dyno results as soon as the prototype goes out to Jason, which should be this week.

 

looks interesting. good to see alternatives for the plenum design besides Crawford.

looking forward to seeing those #'s.

 

i dont know.....wouldnt the inside bank (closest to the intake pipe) be a little starved for air, especially in an FI application?

 

The final production piece actually opens that side up about another .5" so it can breathe a little easier.

We then slanted the opposite side (passenger side) runner so it would even out the flow between the runners.

Gaining flow is not that hard, for example to double the flow of lets say a 2" pipe, you only need to step up to a 3" pipe and even at a 3" pipe you have slightly more than doubled the flow.

We have used thin walled tubing, .125 , to maximize the flow.

We are fairly confident that the numbers will be good.

 

Very Nice! Looking forward to seeing the final production version in SATIN.

 

What kind of flow testing have you done?

 

that might be the sweetest LOOKING bolt on mod ive seen yet for our car! now lets see some numbers (dyno,and $$) if those both look nice too, YOU MAY HAVE SOLD ONE ALREADY!!! i love the new design! keep up the good work man! any ida when it may be available for sale??????? even a guess?

 

i forgot to ask you something! will we be able to use our grounding kits with the production model? i cant tell if we can with the one in the pics??

 

very very nice looking... lets discuss pricing after results have been confirmed, cause if it loses 2hp I wouldn't take it for free, but if it gains 10+hp, I for one could shell out a few hundred for it

 

Manifold looks nice, alot better than the Crawford imo. Cant wait to see the dynos on it...

 

isn't the crawford one putting out 20hp? thats gonna be a tough number to beat!

 

gains will be important in sale. If they are significant, I'm in the game

 

You guys might have something there. Reminds me of the the sheet metal intakes for the V-8's. Let us know on the performance results.

 

Looks great... have you thought about powdercoating the runners? I'd love to see some dyno numbers

 

Manifold is gorgeous, if it doesn't lose any power, I'd buy it just for the looks if it's not to pricey.

Did you guys do any research into tuning the intake runner lengths and plenum volume before you built? Just curious if you built it to any specific CFM and VE% or if you just put large runners and big plenum boxes on it?

With the right length intake runner lengths you can get some awesome numbers for certain RPM's. Not saying you should do this, but some companies build multistage intake runner systems with 2 or 3 runners of different lengths to the engine that's can be switched to provide power at certain RPM's. The main problem with them would be that they're heavy, and and difficult to build.

 

The Nissan 2.5L motor uses variable intakes, too.

 

Looks interesting, as other have said, I would like to see some #s before ordering.

 

Looks great, retains the stock cover and strut, if it makes good power I'm sold!

 

looks great, as for pricing, if you charged the same $/hp as the crawford, I might choose yours instead. dougs ~20hp for $400, so charge $20/hp gained.

 

Looks nice. Ever consider cylindrical runners instead of square? I am not sure if the shape would help, but it should allow for a smaller pipe that delivers the same volume (if I remember my college physics correctly). Furthermore, just wondering out loud, anyone ever thought about dual throttle bodies? Much, much more complex, but just something that has been running through my head.

 

To comment on this... we here at Crawfords are VERY excited to see more performance parts come up. None of us will deny the op' for more power.

Questions arise though... as Nissan spends hundreds of hours utilizing CAD in determining intake runner lengths, venturi angles, etc... what went into this?

From what we see here, this is a VERY attractive piece... yet may have many "flaws". How many custom venturi horns did you go through to find the most "optimal" gains? These need to be in near perfect balance to properly accelerate air flow inside those longer runners.

I'm concerned from your initial post, you didn't give personal impressions. Let me withdraw this comment if you have yet to drive this car, but I can only assume... you being the developer you have driven the **** out of it! Just as we each here at Crawford drive our own Zs.

What did you do to address the brake booster chamber that is an integral part of the oem plenum assembly?

We bring up many questions, because one of our partners in California took the oem manifold completely clearing out the venturis in the lower portion of the plenum. Totally opening up the oem chamber to accomodate more air. This in hope would bring forth more power... instead fair losses occured. This unit later became a door stop.

We initially considered converting the VQ35 plenum from the maxima over to our engines. After flowbench testing, lowend gains WERE made. Topend gains suffered. Thus the entire idea of developing a totally custom unit as your own was chopped.

FYI for the "unsure of intake manifold design"
Long Runners = Torque
Short Runners = Top End Power

We finally accepted, (within reason of development costs) Nissan has already found the perfect balance in our engine... We didn't try to increase either end of the spectrum. We simply tried to repair a cosmetic problem that occured to make everything fit. In a NA aspect our plenum is near perfect, minus the 30% imbalance between the rear and the front cylinders. In turn our "repair" of this imbalance made signifigant gains. Sure it didn't fit under the stock bar... so we fixed that also!

On a completely different note... I might be calling you for this piece when I choose to boost. An FI application will totally change everything. A pressurized plenum does not so much require the "advanced" characteristics of a perfectly designed NA plenum.

I'm curious, it looks as though you have a fair amount of very clean and specialized welds. Much like those found by someone with quite a bit of welding experience Which in turn becomes expensive per/hour rates. If you can introduce this piece into the market <$1k I will applaud you.

On behalf of everyone here at Crawfords... we all are VERY excited to see the results of this piece. More importanly more and more companies entering the marketing with parts. If you make big gains... an early congratulations to you, as obviously you have put a HUGE amount of work into these!!!!

As soon as you have results, please don't hesitate to email us... or post them here.

The gains issue seems to be what everyone is most curious about... not what it looks like... but how much power did it make!

 

looks cool but it looks too squared off for the air to flow properly through it...or are the insides of this thing different than what the outside looks like?

Also, you may want to hurry up and dyno/price this thing because Crawford is taking tons of orders...mine included. If this produces more gains than the crawford, you will definitely have a hot product, as you can keep the stock strut bar and plenum.

 

All very very valid points,

Like I said, this is the prottype, and to answer a few questions.....

The target was to add power with a NA set, but add REAL power with a FI setup. I know you hate to hear it, but looking at some of the technology used in Hondas can be very useful (yes it is a saturated market, but that also means MANY companies shooting to edge eachother out) Honda manifolds, like the VENOM, will use the same concepts we have tried to use which will yield decent results in a NA set up, but will really shine in a FI setup.

If we could pull the same 7 peak hp from our plenum as the Crawford plenum, I would have to go out and celebrate!! But having seen all the interest in superchargers, like the ATI, we thought this would be a great addition. One of my good customers in Hawaii has his kit on order, and we will hopefully be dynoing before and after with the ATI kit and the new manifold.

For area used, the sqaure will flow the most, not a circle, that is why milk cartons are square. I am not an engineer at Nissan, nor do I have a flow bench in house, but I see no need for it. Let me explain. For this particular project, or many of the other ones we have in the works for the Z we can do about 95% of the manufacturing "in house" We start with a design, test it out, and can change, redesign, alter, throw away, polish, sand blast, or kick it around the shop until we like or don't like it.

Our prototype will go out to be dyno'd , the only real world way of proving performance.

Yes TIG welding aluminum is HARD and expensive, it uses expensive materials and a lot of gas. Mandrel bending aluminum is also very expensive as it must be sent out to be annealed. All in all though we can keep it very affordable as we do all of our own welding.

We won't be selling them until gains are proven, so please don't worry about that. I was very hesitant about posting these pics, just got kind of anxious. I really appreciate all your feedback and please be confident that when released, it will be just as functional as the factory plenum, fittings, coolant lines, vacuum lines, etc.

Basically, we will have it dyno'd by several people, post the results, and let you decide whether you want it or not.

 

Nice man do you think it will work on the G35 coupe. I especially like that bar over the engine crap I forgot what is called. I need that for my car.

 

I WANT ONE!!! Good work man, looks great!

 

Forget dual throttle bodies; how about individual throttle bodies like this Tommy Kaira setup?! We talkin' some major Bling Bling here!

http://g35driver.com/forums/attatchm...gineroom_1.jpg

 

Yeah I saw that, E46 M3 style. I tried to find a price but no luck. Must be bank though

 

I don't believe you can order the piece alone. You have to buy the whole Tommy Kaira 350Z to get it. Bank indeed!

Looks damn sweet, but sucks hot air and forget about FI.

 

man those look great ...
3 questions:

1 - will it fit the G35

2 - can i be the test mule? :-D

3- when can i order it!!!

 

Daytona, why all the questions? you know you will be the first to see!, and Fiddlerg35, you have a PM, I will be contacting you about test fitment on the G. Hopefully I will have dyno results and more pics for everyone within a week or two!!!
Jason


jays350z@aol.com
www.mrcmotorsportsllc.com

 

That thing will look wicked with an ATI blowing into it!!!

 

Posted by lsdunique
"For area used, the sqaure will flow the most, not a circle, that is why milk cartons are square. I am not an engineer at Nissan, nor do I have a flow bench in house, but I see no need for it. Let me explain. For this particular project, or many of the other ones we have in the works for the Z we can do about 95% of the manufacturing "in house" We start with a design, test it out, and can change, redesign, alter, throw away, polish, sand blast, or kick it around the shop until we like or don't like it. "
END QUOTE

OKay, I'll throw a log onto the intake fire.

I would be very nervous about buying a new intake that is not flow bench tested. You could very easily create a lean condition in random cylinders to which the engine's computer cannot compensate. Obviously the lean condition is the worst scenario.

Now of course the stock Nissan designed manifold isn't perfect either, but they errored on the side of being too rich which is ok.

One of the reason I have always like the crawford plenum is that it is flow bench tested to deliver optimum air flow to each cylinder allowing your engine to run very balanced for air-fuel ratio -- this is good. However I have never liked the fact that I could not put the engine cover back on and had to buy a new strut bar also.

lsdunique, I am not saying your new manifold will not work or produce power. However I am asking the question of how do you know you are not creating a lean condition in one of cylinders and causing severe problems (like burn a valve, etc). I also understand about using proven design technology from the Honda world, but you simply cannot weld some tubes together and have an optimized design.

Evil350z is very correct in that the intake runners, shape, and air flow distribution all need to be carefully mapped and flow bench tested to assure it works. Maybe an explanation of how you arrived and the intake runner length, shape, and design of the plenum would be helpful.....

Flame suit on....

 

very valid questions that would benefit all if answered.

 

They're right you know. Even if the design looks similar it does not have the same flow properties. depending on how it's designe you could actually have a vacuum on certain cylinders. Just like how if you put a poorly designed intake scoop on your hood you can decrease the efficiency.

With all that said, FI doesn't follow the same air flow laws as NA does, so I would have no problem putting this on an FI car, if for no other reason than it looks badass.

BTW milk cartons are square because they're easier to stack. You will get the most volume out of a circle for the amount of material used.

 

Well, all I can say is this intake is so nice looking.

And the first thing to hit my head when I saw the pic was the ability of "Direct Port" nitrous...weeee....

However, just make sure that the car runs well with that intake, and I have to say you got a winner there.

Now as for the circle vs the square problem...here is my idea.

The most volume out of the material used....Circle

The most volume out of space avaliable...all of it, and in this case, the square.

Just thought I throw my logic in the fire also...which isn't really much. LOL

 

Looks great! If the Dyno results are good, I'll take one!!

 

Finally the wait is over. Please place me on the list of perspective buyers.

1. We keep the stock strut bar
2. We Keep the stock engine cover
3. We loose 15lbs
4. They can be polished
5. We keep our original plenum for warranty issues

I can't wait to hear about the dyno #'s and price.

 

You have been on my list, LSD and myself have both been receiving many email's and PM's so its hard to keep track. As far as everyones design questions, I'll leave that to the manufacturer to answer. As far as testing, I will hopefully install it next week while my car is strapped to the dyno getting the computer tuned. I will be able to see right away how the car is running since our new piggyback has a bunch of datalogging capabilities as well as the $$$ computer and wide band 02 that will be used to tune my car. I will know the exact a/f ratio and I will throughly test the plenum. We will also dyno it with the perfect power ecu and without. I have the dyno reserved for 3 days worth of tuning and testing starting next tuesday so stay tuned!

 

Looking forward to it!!!!!

 

This is AWESOME.

The major benefits that I like are:
1. Keep the strut tower bar
2. Keep the stock engine cover
3. Take on/off in 30 minutes

I'll keep an eye on this, and when the final unit is ready I will almost certainly buy if:

1. It's a reasonable price (compared to the Crawford)
2. It makes power compariable to the Crawford
3. You post publish tested A/F ratios

Thanks,
Jason

 

Schweet!

 

Not knocking the plenum at all, but I find it funny that people are so concerned about the piece of useless plastic that is the engine cover. Especially in the pic of this nice looking plenum replacement, I think it is a bit goofy looking.

I haven't taken mine off yet since I'm lazy, but if I start to mod the engine, it probably will shortly be in my box of worthless car parts in my garage.

 

Andy,

How many are on the wall down here? What's the FIRST thing that was said when they popped the engine cover on the prototype... lol

UGLY engine cover.

Want a pretty smooth covered engine... buy a Buick. Want a racecar look? Let us mod your ride!

 

Heh, I forgot about that. Yeah, there are a few off down there.

The G35C has one that is even worse. It is huge. I'm wondering if there is some noise reduction goal in the design of that one.