tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

im not understanding those delta charts for some reason..care to explain..i would be better with a regular dyno graph from the test pipe and a dyno graph from the art pipes

erik11

iTrader: (2)

The gray line across the x-axis just represents the dyno with test pipes. The graphed, yellow line shows the amount of hp/tq (depending on graph) gained or lost with the ART pipes. If the yellow line is above the gray line, the correlating number on the y-axis shows hp/tq gained at that particular rpm. For example, about 15 tq is gained at 2100rpm and about 3 tq is lost at 6100 rpm.

tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

^^^thanks

tylerxfire

iTrader: (15)

i have to see this comparison with a car with stock headers..damn you for having headers on, take them off and re-dyno now please

screener

iTrader: (10)

Glad to see an apples to apples test, Thanks OP. I am definitely in to see a test compare without headers. I suspected these ART pipes would benefit initial on throttle input better, but once chambers are loaded unrestricted exhaust flow will be just that.

Making 14 lb.ft. more torque at 2100 rpm is impressive, but this is so low in the curve it will not be useable in WOT driving. Maybe during a bad boggy launch to help salvage a run.

Thanks Tony for innovative products for the 350z & G35's These pipes give a great alternative to owners wanting the most power without the most noise. The main effect I am sold on if cost comes down is the sound control over unresonated TP's. Producing significantly more useable tq or hp over TP's was never feasible.

Thanks again OP.

onagao

Let's not get too conclusive with this one. Given the nature of the pipes themselves and the fact that they interact with the exhaust flow upstream in the manifold, it would not be surprising at all to see gains exactly like what Tony posted in his tests (which were with OEM manifolds). I would wait for some complete, conclusive independent tests with stock manifolds before saying it was never feasible.

bluezee

I completely agree. Having seen what i did with the headers, I think this is more header related than ART pipe related. Anyone with more header knowledge care to jump in here?

bluezee

It may not make that much of a difference under WOT on a hard launch (you are already past 1800-2500 rpms) but it sure makes a difference just driving around town AND rolling into the throttle on the highway.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

~3weeks

No dynos readily available in your area?
I agree it would be interesting to see how they do @ 9 PSI.

screener

iTrader: (10)

Maybe, maybe not. I will believe it when I see it. In my post I said I was in for a stock manifold comparison.

I feel Tony has good review control, given he gives buyers/testers great deals on the products. This in turn sways a more bias review. Pretty smart Tony!

onagao

You said that you were in for it, but followed it up by saying that the potential results you're supposedly waiting for "were never feasible". You then follow that up by suggesting any/all reviews for Motordyne products are biased. In sum, you effectively stated that the results are impossible and that anything that suggests otherwise is likely the result of bias. Really?

screener

iTrader: (10)

What are you 5 years old, please be able to comprehend reading. Read the OP's first post, and then explain to me the unbias or non over reacting in it. I know if I just spent $500 plus on a product and was looking for more TQ HP over a competitive product(you are dynoing for a reason) and did not get any, my post would be quite different. If you are looking for driveabilty then do not mod period, most people who mod are looking for more power etc.

Now read through my posts again and tell me I am not allowed to have an opinion, one which has not been disproved yet. My other statements are to help unbias the OP's statements.

I seen your a fan of Motordyne products, are you being unbias/open minded?

onagao

One cannot disprove your argument because it's fundamentally illogical. If it doesn't show gains, you're right because they were never feasible. And if it does show gains, you're right because it's clearly biased. Your statements do not help unbias anything. They simply inject unreasonable levels of skepticism into the discussion. You have backed it up not with facts but with speculation and personal opinion.

If the OP likes the other effects of the pipes, it's his opinion - and clearly nothing but that. That's not bias, that's opinion. Numbers speak for themselves. And on that, we have no independent numbers speaking on behalf of the gains with a stock manifold. We do have numbers, though. We have Tony's original numbers. However, you clearly don't trust that. No, you'd rather indirectly call him a liar. That's fine. That's your call. But let's be clear about it. If you think that Tony "controls" the reviewing process, you're full of crap. I cannot begin to tell you how much emphasis he put on having the exact same conditions for my before/after dyno testing with these pipes. He was uncomfortable with the fact that I would have to drive more than one block to the dyno, for goodness sake. He gave me the best times to do it so that ambient conditions would not change. He mentioned all kinds of things like that. So sure, if you want to say he controls it, at least get it straight - he tries to ensure a completely unbiased reviewing process and to let the numbers speak for themselves. If you don't get that by now, you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I understand what you're saying with regard to the OP. I wouldn't be happy with such little gains, either. However, Motordyne has earned the respect that it's being given - they've earned the benefit of the doubt that some of us are extending it after ONE before/after comparison. Motordyne has a long history of yielding the exact same gains they advertise. I can speak from personal experience on this with every single Motordyne product I've purchased. So am I biased? I would say not. Rather, I am making a very reasonable and logical suggestion based on multiple, consistent accounts of reliable gains. In light of the overwhelming evidence standing against your claims, your argument looks silly. And that's not even touching on the nonfalsifiability of your theory...

I don't want to waste any more of my time with your unreasonable and illogical argument. I made a very accurate observation of the nature of your statements - one you have denied yet not refuted. I'd prefer not to crap all over this thread with post after post of this back-and-forth banter. I've been involved in enough arguments to recognize when someone will not see reason. So if you want to continue this discussion, PM me. Otherwise, drop it.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

I wonder if you had a little detonation tick at 6100RPM. That would explain the sudden drop in HP and TQ there followed by the immediate power recovery.

bluezee

Sorry I read right past this one. My car is an '03 and I lost about 6hp/6tq across the board or so.

Bob

bluezee

It could be. That is the rpm band that we added 2-3 degrees of cam timing to fix the crawford issue. I never pulled it out to see what would happen. Right above that rpm band is the stock cam timing and power recovery.

onagao

This is a little off-topic, but I wonder if the scavenging ability of the headers is negatively affected by intake modifications (Modified MREV, Spacer, etc). That might explain the losses with the Crawfords? I don't know enough about header design theory to really have a good idea. I'm just throwing that out there in the hopes that someone else might.

Hydrazine

iTrader: (53)

Can you do a pre/post dyno comparison?

bluezee

Because I didnt over react I must be biased. Seems a bit presumptuous to me. Maybe you shouldn't over react to these results. As clearly stated, the results are with crawford headers. Tony designed these with the stock manifolds in mind.

You state I was looking for more power and got none. You are incorrect. I clearly stated i gained 14ft/lbs around 2100rpm. This rpm band is the one downfall of all other test pipes. These ART pipes help fix that problem for me even with the Crawford headers. Keep in mind I have already gained a bunch of power when i fitted the Helix test pipes. So forgive me if I dont understand why i should be upset because I gained a lot of torque down low and basically broke even everywhere else compared to a test pipe.

I did the dyno so everyone could see the results. No other reason.

For some people having the absolute most horsepower at the expense of droning is not an option. I offer up Tony has found a way to give you the MOST area under the curve and fix the droning/rasp at the same time. They clearly are better than the test pipes in this regard. Maybe you are more clear why Im not upset with the product but actually thrilled with the product now. By the way, I will mod my car for my reasons and you mod your car for your reasons. Not everyone wants more power at the expense of drivability. Tony has given both. Fair enough?

Am I a fan of Tony's products? Sure, because they work, make more power and are well built. Bias? I think not. You have the dyno sheets. The facts are the facts. What you choose to conclude from them is up to you. What i see is a product that makes power across the board compared to stock (my Helix pipes did and these ART pipes matched them), adds significant power down low compared to all other test pipes and gets rid of most of the drone and all of the rasp. You do pay a premium for all of these bonuses.

I do agree with you on one front. I do want to see an independent review of these using the stock manifolds.

I think this is all a matter of perspective and expectations. Clearly mine are different than yours.

screener

iTrader: (10)

I have an auto now, and the way the TQ reads out is odd and would be controversial in my mind. Second I am pretty happy with my test pipes right now and would only possibly be swayed if ART pipes produce around 10 lb. ft. of tq low to mid more.

I appreciate the offer, but regretfully I am going to have to decline. It really is not that big of a deal for me at this time. I am just in for the test pipes comparisons to see if you really got something here.

I got a lot of respect for you Tony, a real stand up guy you seem to be(Yoda like). I just wish some of your die hards would just be more rational when it come to exhaust mods on a N/A motor. We are not in the spacer days anymore.