I have been trying to find the settings that my car was set to at the factory so I can return them to stock. If I can't find any factory data I can always reset the toe to its inital setting from last week of -0.09* left and -0.07* right. It appears that these settings have drifted slightly from a rounded number. I would guess that the initial settings were -0.10* left and -0.10* right or maybe -0.05* or 0.00* on each side.

I have been confused because I found the same factory toe settings that are in the April 2004 TSB in the June 2002 350z factory service manual. It seems to me that the June 02 specs printed in the manual would be the original "old" specs, but from this information it appears the toe settings have never actually changed. Is it possible that my car was set to 0 toe in on both sides from the factory? I wish I had checked the car when I first bought it.

Still trying to decide what to set it to this weekend. Maybe I will first set it to 0 left and right, test drive that, then go back to my original (about -0.08*) specs if I don't like the way it drives.


I believe I used the same machine. You are correct about the sensitivity of the measurement, my friend recommended that I sit in the car so he could set the toe with my weight in the car. I saw that by getting in and out of the car my body weight (~140lbs) changed the toe settings by 0.01~0.02 degrees. This brings up something I read in the Nissan TSB:

Also:

 

Ain't got time for it 350zenphile. Unless you do alignments for a living, go away. If you do make your living that way then blast away.

 

handling will need be sacraficed to even out tire wear on the z, no if and or buts about it! the handling from the factory was superior to any other settings but induced uneven tire wear & heavy tire feathering. some of the uneveness & some of the feathering can be reduced but changinng camber & toe. it really depends on what you want from your z. if handling is of the upmost importance & tire wear is less of an issue go with the initial spec numbers. if tire wear is more of a concern go with the later specs & favor the high end of camber tolerance.......there really is no balance between the 2, it appears a decision need be made by the driver on what is most important & go with that.......
i keep saying that the combined settings of aggressive toe, camber & caster all play a role in the feathering. i also believe that the feathering is occuring when the car is turning or braking, that the car can be driven in a straight line for days w/o causing feathering. but we must turn & brake and as long as we do we will keep experiencing the feathering issues. im no pro at alignments but i bet those that are not experiencing feathering(yet) either have a less aggressive (+) caster setting (i.e. 6.5 to 7.0) as compared to most of us well beyond +7.5, this as well as having toe much closer to 0 than most of us as well. OR justn have no idea what exactly feathering is!....just my .02c, please prove me wrong.........

-justin

 

Sounds good except for I think this should read: having toe much closer to +0.2deg than most. I think 0 deg will return alot of the steering feel that I lost. I'll tell you in two days.

 

Time for what? Writing your thoughts into legible sentences?!

 

you may have misinterpreted what i was saying. here was my original statement: "im no pro at alignments but i bet those that are not experiencing feathering(yet) either have a less aggressive (+) caster setting (i.e. 6.5 to 7.0) as compared to most of us well beyond +7.5, this as well as having toe much closer to 0 than most of us as well. OR justn have no idea what exactly feathering is!"

i wasnt commenting on handling in this statement. i was stating how some claim to not have feathering at all. i believe they may have a less aggressive caster setting as well as having thier toe closer to "0" as too much toe in or toe out effects feathering greatly....naturally as you get closer to to "out" from any toe "in" setting your going to regain turn in.....if your looking for your original turn in handling, then go back to original factory settings.......you have to sacrifice turn in to reduce feathering......your call

-justin

 

there are 3 threads going on right now that have suspension/alignment topics being discussed. i figured i would link the other 2 to each thread for those interested to check them out. heres the other 2 currently sharing discussions:

How to permanatly fix Nissans problem
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....8&goto=newpost

Just installed SPC Camber Rods/Toe Bolts- Alignment questions???
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....6&goto=newpost

-justin

 

So I played around with the alignment some more this weekend. I set the fronts to zero toe in (0 deg right and left, 0 deg total toe) which is the least amount of toe in specified in the nissan spec range. While it was an improvement from (.10deg right left, 0.2 total toe in) it still was a far cry from how my car was before I started messing with it. So then I did my last alignment and put the aligment back to the specs that the car had before I did the first aligment. I set -0.1deg left and right, for -0.2deg total toe (out). This returned the immediate steering feel, and brought back the heavyness that was missing. This is where I will be keeping the aligment from now on.

On a related note; I noticed slight heel-toe wear (feathering) on the stock tires which only have about 3500miles. This condition will get worse for me because I will continue to keep my tires set with toe out for handling performance.

 

Thanks for the final report BD. I think I may be willing to make that sacrifice myself...

 

There is a BIG difference in how the car feels with toe-out. I think this is why Nissan originally shipped the Z with this alignment setting. I installed the Hotchkis TVS Stage 1 and turn-in was MUCH improved. A week later I installed new tires with an alignment. It turns out left and right were toed way out (neg toe).

When the alignment was done I requested +0.05 deg left and right (total +0.1 deg toe-in) and emphasized the importance of it being correct. Now the steering response is significantly reduced on initial turn-in but over all with the new springs and sways I am very happy with how the car feels. I'm not willing to sacrifice tire wear for steering response. I just wish I could have negative toe-in and not worry about trashing the tires.

When I have a few spare minutes at home I will post the alignment data.

 

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

 

Fronts replaced at 4K miles on vehicle

Before-
LF-Camber -0.8 RF -1.0
LF-Caster 8.3 RF 8.3
LF-Toe 0.06 RF -0.08

After-
LF-Camber -0.8 RF -1.0
LF-Caster 8.3 RF 8.3
LF-Toe 0.04 RF 0.04

Now 9K miles later tires are roaring again and I am taking back in for hopefully replacement. The first set were feathered on the outside the most, this last set has more feathering on the inside.

 

pulpz2, i feel the same way you do. i do not want to sacrifice tire wear for better handling. i let a friend of mine who has never driven a z drive my z with the latest alignment specs( .06 total toe front & .1 total toe rear). he said the cars feels amaizing to him & he was impressed with the z's handling. my friend has owned some fairly impressive cars & i respect his opinion.......sux that we were able to feel how the car handled with the aggressive initial toe settings, but in all honesty the z is still pretty nice at these tire conserving settings, so im ok with that!

pit bull, your experience is very strange. the initial toe out settings were causing feathering overlap on the inside of the tires, then as you move the toe in the feathering gets moved towards the center or outside of the tire(depending on cater & camber). this is why nissan called for the "toe in" TSB, it merely moves the feathering location. odd that you had opposite experiences..... might want to consult wiht your alignment tech....

unfortunately no alignment change is going to eliminate the feathering completely in stock suspension format. unless nissan calls for revised struts/shocks & potentially fully adjustable aligment(all axis) i dont think were going to see much change other than the location of the feathering on the tire.......

i still truely believe the feathering is only happening while cornering & braking. the combination of the agressive alignment settings(camber, toe & caster combined) along with the harsh rebound the z's suspension offers is what i believe causes the feathering.......

just to end this, we can change alignment settings to better the tires wear characteristics, in terms of more even tire wear, so dont think im saying we cant slow the process or make the tires last a little longer. i just dont think the feathring is going to be gone with some slight toe adjustments nissan keeps throwing out at us.....i know many others feel this way too, its nothing new....

-justin

 

Does anyone have anymore information on what the new suspension parts in the 05 are designed to accomplish? Jason from Performance had confirmed that they were in fact different part numbers, but I hadn't heard or seen anything about this since.

 

what parts exactly have different part #'s, please share! i would assume that they are replacing parts now to rid of the tire feathering, this is thier biggest dilema.......

-justin

 

Quote from Jason:
I bumped this thread for more info and it took off back in the original direction it started in (part #'s for the 05 engine) before I hijacked it for part #'s for the suspension. =)

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....1&page=3&pp=20

Let me know if you find out!

 

wierd that they would replace the spindles & lower control arms. theres actually 2 lower control arms in the front suspension. each arm is separate, part of nissans new suspension design. i cant imagine why the spindle would be changed......i wish somone could comment on this..........

-justin

 

+1

Patiently Lurking.

I had the new TSB done and was depressed at the loss of handling. 25k miles later and for better or worse I am used to it, and feathering and cupping didnt become a problem till about nearly twice as long as it did before... Compare feathering at 8k miles orig settings to 16k new TSB settings.

I just dropped 750 on some new G-force's so Im hesitant to add negative toe.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their input on this thread. I have learned a lot and, as I said earlier, am waiting for any new news.

~AJ

 

AJ what were your alignment settings that lasted twice as long?

 

I bought in 2002, and had the original settings. Tires where badly feathered by 8k miles. BADLY. This was after a bunch of allignments and swapping left-right tires etc.etc.

When I saw the new TSB, I went in. They gave me a free pair of Potenza's on the front and put the new specs on. Handling went to shi7, but they feathered a whole hellova lot slower. After about 10 k, I had them swap left and rights, and not until about 16 k miles on them was the fearthing and roar as bad as it was the first time around.

So, I guess short answer is, the 1st TSB settings staved off feathing about twice as long as orig specs.
~AJ