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OK folks in less than 48 hours, we finally get to see the new Z - as produced, supposedly.
So, after watching the reveal or pictures or whatever, feel free to leave your comments, questions, critique, praise, whatever, here.
I'll go first....
Said it all along, not buying the new Z until Nismo/Autech does a number on it. Or, at least I get some solid info on such a version. My spoiled attitude (some call me "uppity", YKWYA. Laff....) comes from having a love affair with my basic '03 on suspension and a totally visceral, smiling face experience with both my 33 and 34 Nismos. 332 and 350bhp isn't huge comparatively but those two had something slightly less quantifiable: great balance where such quality evens the playing field for me where power, to me, is just a thing.
Reason I love balance over power (yes, having both is king) is about feel and responsiveness. I want my car to do as my brain/eyes/hands/feet tell it to do. RIGHT NOW. That's why we drop thousands of dollars into suspension, rollers, etc. With the Nismos, no real need for any of that - in the real world that includes, speed bumps, bad roads, inclement weather, and other harshness of driving reality.
And as far as power goes, well, not saying 400 (probably 340-350 wheel assuming 15% powertrain drain) isn't a significant amount of power but my other car puts down a respectable 407 wheel. So yeah, spoiled I am.
But in the Z's defense (actually, offense; based on currently available info) the power:weight ratios are as follows:
New Nissan Z: 9.3lbs / WHP
VS
2003 Mercedes SL55 AMG: 10.4bs / WHP
Those are kickass numbers for the Z so, I'd better just remain quiet and wait for the real numbers. Then when the Z stomps my 18 year old car's ***, I'll go order a Tesla Plaid.
Those are kickass numbers for the Z so, I'd better just remain quiet and wait for the real numbers. Then when the Z stomps my 18 year old car's ***, I'll go order a Tesla Plaid.
Have you ever driven any of Tesla's "Performance" models? Even the Model 3 P is, blood pooling towards your back, quick. (From a standstill that is)
Reason I love balance over power (yes, having both is king) is about feel and responsiveness. I want my car to do as my brain/eyes/hands/feet tell it to do. RIGHT NOW. That's why we drop thousands of dollars into suspension, rollers, etc. With the Nismos, no real need for any of that - in the real world that includes, speed bumps, bad roads, inclement weather, and other harshness of driving reality
This is why I like the 350Z and don't like turbos and consequently the new Z. Yes I know you can spec turbos to minimize lag, I don't care, it's my power and I want it now lol.
This is why I like the 350Z and don't like turbos and consequently the new Z. Yes I know you can spec turbos to minimize lag, I don't care, it's my power and I want it now lol.
I find lag to be much more prevalent in NA cars, especially with the 350z having a long 3.5 final drive ratio. Its even more noticeable on NA motors when you throw in an open element air filter, either SRI or CAI. You give up low end response for peak power with an intake, albeit however limited that increase may be. You've probably noticed NA lag before, assuming you own an 6mt (5AT being even more obvious), that when you're cruising at low speeds and in a higher gear and you floor it the car bogs down. That is NA lag. Turbo lag is a misconception brought about by older cars from the 80s and early 90s, or NA-T motors, which has been carried through to modern times.
I daily a Evo X and also own a Forester 2.5XT turbo along with my NA 350z, thus I can compare on a whim. I understand that its anecdotal, so are most of the comments on turbo lag. "Feel" can be subjective, however, CarandDriver has empirical data on comparing the two, with modern cars, and found turbo cars to be far more responsive. Drive a factory turbo car like you would NA, then there is no discernable "lag" or to be precise throttle delay. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...e-to-the-test/
Have you ever driven any of Tesla's "Performance" models? Even the Model 3 P is, blood pooling towards your back, quick. (From a standstill that is)
Yep. Tesla wants my money and am on a prospect list where I get invites to their rollout events and parties. I went to one at Pebble Beach Lodge (couldn’t turn that down with as much time as we spend in the Monterey area) and had an amazing drive in a Mod S P85D.
OK, so I’d driven only two e-cars (and our hybrid Highlander - affectionately named "Connor McLeod" by a friend, BTW. Think about it. Ha!) at that point. A friend’s Chevy Volt and his other one, a VW eGolf (or Golfcart, as I joke with him). So had some feel for the differences in the way an e-car accelerates and drives going into the Tesla test drive. Peppy, fairly on/off digital, meaning, you nail the throttle and motor(s) don’t need to rev up like an ICE (internal combustion engine), it's just *go*. May not be particularly fast with small single e-motors, but from the line, the sensation is of a pretty quick car until the motor(s) reach their max power, very quickly I might add.
End my windy intro, but it serves a purpose. Meaning, I expected the accelerative feel of the P85D to be on point but in reality... it completely and utterly shocked me (no pun). Honestly, it scared me how quickly that car got up to highway speed (and beyond). I can honestly say I’ve never driven a faster accelerating street vehicle in my life. 3.2 secs to 60 with no drama like loud exhaust, shifting, popping. Just gets up and goes.... like a moofoo! Yikes! Now imagine how fast a Plaid is at 38% FASTER. Oy. C'mon!! Tell me how many Teslas are fated for a "supercar fail video" due to driver error...
Originally Posted by Heel Til I Die
I'm really hoping the new Z has the analog feel of the Z33 despite all the digital features.
In for Mic's uppity review once he gets his hands on one.
I already poopoo'd all over it so any uppity follow up praise would be hypocritical in an eat-my-words-kinda-way. Laff....
Originally Posted by mr. sparco
I find lag to be much more prevalent in NA cars, especially with the 350z having a long 3.5 final drive ratio. Its even more noticeable on NA motors when you throw in an open element air filter, either SRI or CAI. You give up low end response for peak power with an intake, albeit however limited that increase may be. You've probably noticed NA lag before, assuming you own an 6mt (5AT being even more obvious), that when you're cruising at low speeds and in a higher gear and you floor it the car bogs down.
Based on my commentary about my *RIGHT NOW* needs, one solution.... belt driven forced induction.
Tangent: Ever tell the story about how I got my SL for so cheap? Previous owner (RIP) dropped the price a LOT (like 50% from original asking) when he was quoted $3500 to "repair the supercharger". He was sick of repairs. I drove it, heard and felt the compressor bearing grinding. After some research, figured I'd take a chance on it. $58 later, a bearing in my freezer and the S/C drive housing in the oven, DONE. (Easiest "complex repair" I've ever done!) Saved $3,442. on repairs plus many thousands on the car itself. Today, even with some pretty expensive repairs (suspension pump and an ABS pump issue), still not at the $$ level of buying a used one, even before the Covid-inflated pricing of all cars and parts today.
I find lag to be much more prevalent in NA cars, especially with the 350z having a long 3.5 final drive ratio. Its even more noticeable on NA motors when you throw in an open element air filter, either SRI or CAI. You give up low end response for peak power with an intake, albeit however limited that increase may be. You've probably noticed NA lag before, assuming you own an 6mt (5AT being even more obvious), that when you're cruising at low speeds and in a higher gear and you floor it the car bogs down. That is NA lag. Turbo lag is a misconception brought about by older cars from the 80s and early 90s, or NA-T motors, which has been carried through to modern times.
I daily a Evo X and also own a Forester 2.5XT turbo along with my NA 350z, thus I can compare on a whim. I understand that its anecdotal, so are most of the comments on turbo lag. "Feel" can be subjective, however, CarandDriver has empirical data on comparing the two, with modern cars, and found turbo cars to be far more responsive. Drive a factory turbo car like you would NA, then there is no discernable "lag" or to be precise throttle delay. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...e-to-the-test/
I get what you are saying 100%.
FI cars have way better response when the are in the "sweet spot" but unless it is supercharged or a super dialed in turbo you will encounter lag (or lack of full power).
With NA cars the power band is 100% the same all the time, you keep the car in it's power band and it always has instant response.
My DD is a GTI, probably the most relevant "apples to apples" comparison here because they are really close to the performance figures for the 350Z. Yes when in peak boost area it feels faster than the 350Z but that wears out quickly, you rev past 5k it's boring, keep it under 3k it's boring, doing a pull and shift it's now temporarily boring.
In my Z however yes it'll "feel" slower, but I know it isn't, once you get to the peak power you shift and it will keep pulling and picks up speed much faster than the GTI.
Now with a DCT or auto I could see how a person could say a turbo car feels much better but personally I like my power consistent and turbos aren't that for me.
I love the thrust the GTI has and when I read the forum comments of it "not being able to move out of it's own way" I was like "what are these guys on?" Ultimately it's a perfect daily but not something I would want for a toy car.
Mic I completely agree about superchargers which is why I bought one....sorry for the mini rant lol.
I'm interested if Nissan lands the "driving experience" with the new Z, and where they go with a Nismo version. Seems like the differences in the 370Z from year-to-year and model-to-model kind of slowed with its decade long lifespan. I'm also interested to see what kind of aftermarket potential exists for getting high horsepower out of vr30ddtt (I know they already exist but knew nothing about them until Nissan's announcement of the Z), I imagine with the integrated manifold and the size of those turbos there is only so much breath before you gotta get creative. I think I'm saddened at the fact that this very well may be Nissan's final Manual ICE sport car.
With NA cars the power band is 100% the same all the time, you keep the car in it's power band and it always has instant response.
Can't say I agree with you since you have to be in the "power band" on an NA car to get it moving. I can be cruising on the freeway at top gear on my Evo or XT and punch it, absolutely no lag and it will keep pulling. Try the same thing with my 350z and it takes a while before it starts to move since RPMs need to rise up. I swapped out the final drive of the 350z due to this reason. I wouldn't know exactly what you're explaining in terms of your GTi since I've never driven one before. From what I can tell, what you are describing is the feeling of torque on your GTI when you say its "fun" or "boring" at certain RPMs. I don't feel that way with my personal vehicles. At any rate, eventually people will say ICE cars all have lag since EVs are the only ones, at least from my experience with Teslas, as truly having no lag and delivering instant power.
At any rate, eventually people will say ICE cars all have lag since EVs are the only ones, at least from my experience with Teslas, as truly having no lag and delivering instant power.
Like I said in post 1…. Scary, no, make that “F’n scary.”
It’s taken years but I’m ready to say “Electric IS the future.” Not for me necessarily other than the eventual Tesla wheelchair. 🤡
Like I said in post 1…. Scary, no, make that “F’n scary.”
It’s taken years but I’m ready to say “Electric IS the future.” Not for me necessarily other than the eventual Tesla wheelchair. 🤡
Watched a recent 911 GT3 review, Carlos Lagos said something along the lines of... the GT3 isn't as fast as a Tesla but you just can't replace the experience of driving a manual 911. With upcoming laws banning the sale of new ICE, going to be interesting to see what happens to cars that involve actual driver input. Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc can companies that sell cars through the drama of driving redefine what a super car is through EVs?
Can't say I agree with you since you have to be in the "power band" on an NA car to get it moving. I can be cruising on the freeway at top gear on my Evo or XT and punch it, absolutely no lag and it will keep pulling. Try the same thing with my 350z and it takes a while before it starts to move since RPMs need to rise up. I swapped out the final drive of the 350z due to this reason. I wouldn't know exactly what you're explaining in terms of your GTi since I've never driven one before. From what I can tell, what you are describing is the feeling of torque on your GTI when you say its "fun" or "boring" at certain RPMs. I don't feel that way with my personal vehicles. At any rate, eventually people will say ICE cars all have lag since EVs are the only ones, at least from my experience with Teslas, as truly having no lag and delivering instant power.
Yes, the feeling of torque.
my usual cruising in the Z is around 3-4k which is a healthy region for the VQ in terms of power.
If I'm cruising around at 3k+ in the GTI there isn't lag on the highway but torque drops drastically at 4k+ on those cars while the Z doesn't have that problem, I have no experience with EVOs or Subis. I'll imagine they aren't perfectly linear as I have yet to see a street car that's turbo that is, unless we talk exotics.
this is a Q60RS so we can expect similar results, that dip after 4600 is a hell no for me, I rather have less torque and have it drop off near redline with the HP. It's just how I'm wired, I'm not driving around much under 4k if I want speed anyway and my Z is a fun car only, and brought out only on perfect days.
I'll imagine they aren't perfectly linear as I have yet to see a street car that's turbo that is, unless we talk exotics.
I thought we were discussing turbo lag as compared to NA lag, which is why I posted the CarandDriver link as validation. Linear NA power does not = instant power response. Its gradual, progressive, requires revs to achieve, wrong gear and it bogs. Low speed, high load, high throttle on an NA car = lag. I find "turbo lag" to be a continual outdated misconception. From what I am reading its the early torque in the rev range that you dislike and somewhat more amplified in your GTi. I actually like the early torque which is why I say turbo is far more responsive just like in the article I posted. Difference in preference and is subjective, not saying that you are wrong in your preferences.
this is a Q60RS so we can expect similar results, that dip after 4600 is a hell no for me, I rather have less torque and have it drop off near redline with the HP. It's just how I'm wired, I'm not driving around much under 4k if I want speed anyway and my Z is a fun car only, and brought out only on perfect days.
The FRS/Toyota 86/BRZ is considered to be one of the most fun driver's car available, it also has that torque dip at around 4k RPM, NA. Owners call it "hitting a wall". Many cars have that torque dip in both NA and turbo vehicles. Its an intentional byproduct of manufacturer tuning to pass stringent smog requirements during Euro and US DOT testing.
With that said, I've also owned an ap1 S2000, NB Miata, Turbo Civic Si and can confidently say, those were more "fun" to drive than my 350z. But once again, fun is subjective and does not equate to turbo being any less responsive. What I am saying, since the beginning as corroborated by CarandDriver, is that turbo is more responsive. No bearing on subjective preferences, just the facts.
Sure, but you can't tell me you can floor your average turbo car at 1.5-2 rpm and it won't bog. That's normal and it's up to you to shift to where it needs to be, but there will be a small amount of "lag" during spool up and shifting specially in the lower gears. The lag between gears is what I don't like, torque drop off is very much a preference thing. The BRZ while it does dip the max torque IIRC RPMs higher than the VQs max HP RPMs, and that is changing in the next model, it's also much slower than the 350Z. I'll agree that fun is subjective, but I still think the new Z should have stayed at 3.7l minimum and stayed NA.
For the record do like the low RPM torque that comes with a turbo for a DD but it doesn't mesh well with my driving style for a toy car and will always prefer NA or supercharger in that scenario.
Semi-Official 2022 Nissan Z Thread
