"Smoky" Nagata of Top Secret to Come to Houston for IR2010
04-07-2010, 06:59 PM
#21
Btw, one of the GTR's they tuned had COBB beforehand, and although i dont know that much about what they did or the GTR, i talked to the owner afterwards (after he drove it) and he was absolutely elated with the results. It was a chit ton better than the COBB tune they previously had on the GTR.
From what i gather, all the drivers were more than happy with the results.
From what i gather, all the drivers were more than happy with the results.
Last edited by GeauxLadyZ; 04-07-2010 at 07:05 PM.
04-07-2010, 07:14 PM
#22
Oh ya, and threefive, i pretty sure u saw my post in drag section about the 13.8 1/4 time on the dyno.
That was literally right after getting tuned while car was still on dyno, so ecu had not adjusted yet, cause it still drove the same right after it got off the dyno.
Id love to see what it does now, so i plan to take to strip sometime soon and see, and of course, youll see my slip on the 1/4 time thread
That was literally right after getting tuned while car was still on dyno, so ecu had not adjusted yet, cause it still drove the same right after it got off the dyno.
Id love to see what it does now, so i plan to take to strip sometime soon and see, and of course, youll see my slip on the 1/4 time thread
04-07-2010, 09:46 PM
#23
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
This is strictly my opinion and I'm just stating things the way I see it from my perspective. If I offend you in any way, I hope you know that I hadn't intended on doing so. I'll address things in order in which it was written.
If I paid any amount of money, especially one that I thought I was paying a premium for, I'd be greatly disappointed if I didn't even get a picture of what was on the screen if the printer wasn't working. That way, you can at least prove that gains were realized with this tune.
And honestly, if there was that many people in line to get a tune in 1 or 2 days, I'd be a bit concerned with the "quality" of the tune. But it also sounds like Smokey had a canned tunes (not exactly what most want) ready, which also would explain wanting nearly stock vehicles only. Even then, it sounds like he wasn't as prepared as he should've been (referring to "new ECU model" for Smokey, having to download everybody's ECU variations, etc). Again, I'd be a bit concerned, but maybe I'm over analyzing things.
Here's a part where I don't understand. How and why does the car need to "learn and adjust" after the tune? Shouldn't a reflash tune be most unadulterated/effective just after being applied onto the ECU before the ECU tries to "learn and adjust" back to its stock configurations? Which makes you wonder, does the ECU try to learn and adjust back to the OE setting, overwriting the tune, after a while? I'm kind of confused on why the ECU needed time to change things and why after a few minutes you'd suddenly feel more power. Are you suggesting that you've gained additional power after you've received the tune, gotten off the dyno, and began driving?
Again, I don't mean to be offensive in any way nor am I doubting the tune you've received. I'm just curious about certain aspects of your story from the way you've described things above.
Anyway, as long as you feel you've got your money's worth, then that's all that matters. I'm sure there were some gains and that you could feel a difference. I was just hoping for something more concrete and a bit more info on this new reflash/tune.
And yeah, I saw your post in the top 25 drag racer thread. However, the 1/4 mile runs on the dyno aren't really all that accurate as it controls too many factors. I'm assuming you've not visited the drag strip prior to the tune? That also would've been helpful to a certain extent, as far as seeing gains via differences in numbers.
If I paid any amount of money, especially one that I thought I was paying a premium for, I'd be greatly disappointed if I didn't even get a picture of what was on the screen if the printer wasn't working. That way, you can at least prove that gains were realized with this tune.
And honestly, if there was that many people in line to get a tune in 1 or 2 days, I'd be a bit concerned with the "quality" of the tune. But it also sounds like Smokey had a canned tunes (not exactly what most want) ready, which also would explain wanting nearly stock vehicles only. Even then, it sounds like he wasn't as prepared as he should've been (referring to "new ECU model" for Smokey, having to download everybody's ECU variations, etc). Again, I'd be a bit concerned, but maybe I'm over analyzing things.
Here's a part where I don't understand. How and why does the car need to "learn and adjust" after the tune? Shouldn't a reflash tune be most unadulterated/effective just after being applied onto the ECU before the ECU tries to "learn and adjust" back to its stock configurations? Which makes you wonder, does the ECU try to learn and adjust back to the OE setting, overwriting the tune, after a while? I'm kind of confused on why the ECU needed time to change things and why after a few minutes you'd suddenly feel more power. Are you suggesting that you've gained additional power after you've received the tune, gotten off the dyno, and began driving?
Again, I don't mean to be offensive in any way nor am I doubting the tune you've received. I'm just curious about certain aspects of your story from the way you've described things above.
Anyway, as long as you feel you've got your money's worth, then that's all that matters. I'm sure there were some gains and that you could feel a difference. I was just hoping for something more concrete and a bit more info on this new reflash/tune.
And yeah, I saw your post in the top 25 drag racer thread. However, the 1/4 mile runs on the dyno aren't really all that accurate as it controls too many factors. I'm assuming you've not visited the drag strip prior to the tune? That also would've been helpful to a certain extent, as far as seeing gains via differences in numbers.
04-08-2010, 07:52 AM
#24
Na man, not offended in any way. I understand your skepticism, as all of us who got the tune were skeptical at one point, any pretty much everybody i know and have talked to about it are still skeptical with the exception of a very few. Your reaction/thoughts are the norm, trust me.
First, your correct that i would want to see for a fact that gains were realized to assure myself i was getting my money's worth, but i did see them for a fact, in person. To have a picture or a printout of the actual gains would not be for my benefit whatsoever, but rather for yours and those who would want to see it with their own eyes. I am not trying to prove anything to anybody, nor am i trying to sell this tune, so me having "paper" proof of my gains is irrelevant to me because i know what i saw and all i have to do is drive the car for any further proof to myself. Believe me when i tell you that I have NO doubt whatsoever that gains were realized, not only in HP but mainly in overall engine performance.
Second, Smokey DID have canned tunes ready, but those were for the completely 100% stock brand new off the lot 370's from Baker-Jackson Nissan, and he still tweaked them just alittle bit once he had them on the dyno, because we all know every car is alittle different. He just took much less time on those then he did our cars. This is a man that has been tuning cars forever, and longer than almost anyone in the world, so i wouldnt be as quick to assume that him doing it alittle faster than some others neccesarily makes it a "less quality tune". Trust me when i tell you i thought long and hard about this before i did it, and thought of every question you are presenting beforehand.
The tunes for our 350's were NOT canned, but i think he had some broad parameters set which he then tweaked according to each car, about 2-3 times per car. FI cars take much longer to tune, more variables, so thats why he wanted N/A cars, not necc all stock cars.
As far as him not being ready, i think it was quite the opposite. First off, any tuner will tell you tuning doesnt always go 100% according to plan, so there would no doubt be some things he wasnt ready for, like the very early model 03' ECU, which im sure hardly any people know about given that it was a VERY limited number of cars in very early 03' line. I more think, and know, that we had problems understand his method because of language barrier. I am positive HE knew what he had to do, but WE didnt...even John didnt, so it was hard to understand what he needed. I think he knew that he had to check each car's ECU then download the proper "broad" parameters for that ECU variation, according to each car. I think it was more a mistake on the part of those that set this up than it was on Smokey, himself.
As far as the ECU "learning", i cant tell you one way or another because i dont know that much about the ECU where this reflash is concerned, esp with his tune. This is all i can definitevely tell you: The car definitely, 100% for sure changed itself for some reason half way home, because the car went from black to white, that much i am certain. The change was SO drastic, there is simply no way it could have been just my butt dyno. If i wasnt sure, believe me i would say that i wasnt sure, like i said on the next morning car being more different thing.
I do know that there are times when the stock ECU on a car has to learn and adjust itself, like maybe when batt has been disconnected for a long time, or you turn car on with MAF disconnected then turn off, then reconnect, it takes the car a few minutes to readjust itself, and that is what i think happened here. My guess is, even after the car had its parameters set it had to fine tune things to get itself to operate at those set parameters, or even slowly move up to operating at those set parameters from the old stock (pre-Nissan factory tune) parameters. Honestly, i have no clue bro, i can just tell you what i know for sure. From what i know, this tune was meant to be simply "hacking the ecu" and making the car think the new settings are stock settings. Things like multiple maps and such i believe are written onto the ECU, something that is not a stock ECU option and thereby overriding the stock tune, but this is just like changing the stock tune only. I could be wrong, but this is what i gathered from it. Do i think the car literally gained more Hp on the way home? I have no idea whatsoever, logic would tell me prob not, but it def felt like it sure as hell did, so there is no doubt that SOMETHING was greatly changed concerning the car's performance, bc there was no mistaking the black to white change in how the car felt.
Yes, i am def in the dark too much for something i paid well for, but at the same time, results results results....and this tune supplied them, however he did it. Will the ECU try to "adjust back to stock"? No, because the ECU thinks this IS the stock tune, and wont know any better unless reflashed again. I think this tune has many similarities to an Uprev tune, but is also different in some ways as well. I just dont know enough to supply you with the answers you seek brosef.
No, i have no drag history before that dyno. My car is being built for show, not go, but this was an opportunity i couldnt pass up, and it was totally worth it.
Im going to figure out some kind of way to better measure these results, and when i do, you will be the first to know. Until then, i know the other guy (Blackheart) personally who got the tune, and i will talk to him soon to get him to chime in here.
First, your correct that i would want to see for a fact that gains were realized to assure myself i was getting my money's worth, but i did see them for a fact, in person. To have a picture or a printout of the actual gains would not be for my benefit whatsoever, but rather for yours and those who would want to see it with their own eyes. I am not trying to prove anything to anybody, nor am i trying to sell this tune, so me having "paper" proof of my gains is irrelevant to me because i know what i saw and all i have to do is drive the car for any further proof to myself. Believe me when i tell you that I have NO doubt whatsoever that gains were realized, not only in HP but mainly in overall engine performance.
Second, Smokey DID have canned tunes ready, but those were for the completely 100% stock brand new off the lot 370's from Baker-Jackson Nissan, and he still tweaked them just alittle bit once he had them on the dyno, because we all know every car is alittle different. He just took much less time on those then he did our cars. This is a man that has been tuning cars forever, and longer than almost anyone in the world, so i wouldnt be as quick to assume that him doing it alittle faster than some others neccesarily makes it a "less quality tune". Trust me when i tell you i thought long and hard about this before i did it, and thought of every question you are presenting beforehand.
The tunes for our 350's were NOT canned, but i think he had some broad parameters set which he then tweaked according to each car, about 2-3 times per car. FI cars take much longer to tune, more variables, so thats why he wanted N/A cars, not necc all stock cars.
As far as him not being ready, i think it was quite the opposite. First off, any tuner will tell you tuning doesnt always go 100% according to plan, so there would no doubt be some things he wasnt ready for, like the very early model 03' ECU, which im sure hardly any people know about given that it was a VERY limited number of cars in very early 03' line. I more think, and know, that we had problems understand his method because of language barrier. I am positive HE knew what he had to do, but WE didnt...even John didnt, so it was hard to understand what he needed. I think he knew that he had to check each car's ECU then download the proper "broad" parameters for that ECU variation, according to each car. I think it was more a mistake on the part of those that set this up than it was on Smokey, himself.
As far as the ECU "learning", i cant tell you one way or another because i dont know that much about the ECU where this reflash is concerned, esp with his tune. This is all i can definitevely tell you: The car definitely, 100% for sure changed itself for some reason half way home, because the car went from black to white, that much i am certain. The change was SO drastic, there is simply no way it could have been just my butt dyno. If i wasnt sure, believe me i would say that i wasnt sure, like i said on the next morning car being more different thing.
I do know that there are times when the stock ECU on a car has to learn and adjust itself, like maybe when batt has been disconnected for a long time, or you turn car on with MAF disconnected then turn off, then reconnect, it takes the car a few minutes to readjust itself, and that is what i think happened here. My guess is, even after the car had its parameters set it had to fine tune things to get itself to operate at those set parameters, or even slowly move up to operating at those set parameters from the old stock (pre-Nissan factory tune) parameters. Honestly, i have no clue bro, i can just tell you what i know for sure. From what i know, this tune was meant to be simply "hacking the ecu" and making the car think the new settings are stock settings. Things like multiple maps and such i believe are written onto the ECU, something that is not a stock ECU option and thereby overriding the stock tune, but this is just like changing the stock tune only. I could be wrong, but this is what i gathered from it. Do i think the car literally gained more Hp on the way home? I have no idea whatsoever, logic would tell me prob not, but it def felt like it sure as hell did, so there is no doubt that SOMETHING was greatly changed concerning the car's performance, bc there was no mistaking the black to white change in how the car felt.
Yes, i am def in the dark too much for something i paid well for, but at the same time, results results results....and this tune supplied them, however he did it. Will the ECU try to "adjust back to stock"? No, because the ECU thinks this IS the stock tune, and wont know any better unless reflashed again. I think this tune has many similarities to an Uprev tune, but is also different in some ways as well. I just dont know enough to supply you with the answers you seek brosef.
No, i have no drag history before that dyno. My car is being built for show, not go, but this was an opportunity i couldnt pass up, and it was totally worth it.
Im going to figure out some kind of way to better measure these results, and when i do, you will be the first to know. Until then, i know the other guy (Blackheart) personally who got the tune, and i will talk to him soon to get him to chime in here.
Last edited by GeauxLadyZ; 04-08-2010 at 08:06 AM.
04-08-2010, 08:11 AM
#26
I have no doubt you will def feel a drastic difference from your Z.
If i end up going to Kemah Sat night, you will drive the car then.
04-08-2010, 01:45 PM
#30
Retired Admin
iTrader: (95)
GeauxLadyZ, thanks for taking the time to write the review over your experience.
As I'm a person of empirical data, there's no doubt that I'd rather see tangible gains. However, as I said before, as long as you (the person who paid and received the tune) are happy, then it's all good.
I hope to hear some long term reviews if possible by both you and other 350Z members who received this tune.
As I'm a person of empirical data, there's no doubt that I'd rather see tangible gains. However, as I said before, as long as you (the person who paid and received the tune) are happy, then it's all good.
I hope to hear some long term reviews if possible by both you and other 350Z members who received this tune.
04-08-2010, 03:33 PM
#31
Will do bro.
Just found out that there was another member who had the tune who had a similar problem that the 370's had. Apparently, after the tune was downloaded on his ECU, it threw a CEL for cam positioner sensor and went into limp mode....but he thinks it is obviously fine bc it was before. They reloaded stock ECU tune but it still threw CEL...weird.
I can tell you this, many cars had problems and were not able to accept this tune, its crazy. I have never heard anything like this from any other reflash tune, so i am inclined to believe that this is something different than the average reflash.
Anyway, np threefive, glad to share my experience. I will indeed provide you with long term results from this, or any problems i encounter.
I hear ya, though. I am also a person of definitive data, which is why i was nervous as *** until i drove the car. After that, all doubt vanished.
Just found out that there was another member who had the tune who had a similar problem that the 370's had. Apparently, after the tune was downloaded on his ECU, it threw a CEL for cam positioner sensor and went into limp mode....but he thinks it is obviously fine bc it was before. They reloaded stock ECU tune but it still threw CEL...weird.
I can tell you this, many cars had problems and were not able to accept this tune, its crazy. I have never heard anything like this from any other reflash tune, so i am inclined to believe that this is something different than the average reflash.
Anyway, np threefive, glad to share my experience. I will indeed provide you with long term results from this, or any problems i encounter.
I hear ya, though. I am also a person of definitive data, which is why i was nervous as *** until i drove the car. After that, all doubt vanished.
awesome car man! 
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