xenonk

Like anything, a properly set up car with more goal-specific parts is the better thing to have than just having the parts on the car. There can be a lot more to go through when you start adding turns into the mix of drag (straight) driving. There's a lot more involved now that you are throwing a whole new dimension to the car. Just like anything out there, there's parts that are designed for a purpose or some may be able to do handle multiple purposes, but you'll have to look into that more if you decide to go deeper into road track driving or time trials.

Those parts that you have are fine possibly mostly for a quick spirited street run or drag and the setup could be pretty general for your use, but on the road track, you could be driving way HARDER non-stop for 20 to 25 mins per each session.. just imagine you doing about 110 back-to-back 45 mph rolling start 1/4-mile drags non-stop.. drive fast, brake hard, make a hard turn at the end of the straight and then accelerate as fast as you can down another 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 3/4 mile, or even 60', 330' etc... for about 110 times non stop.. that's similar to what track driving conditions could be. 110 1/4mile runs = 27 miles worth of driving, which is about right because I log in about 80~100 track miles each day when I am at these events.. I might come up with about 200 to 220 track miles at the end of the weekend. Eventually, you may even want to fine tune stuff as simple as tire pressures to get more out of the car.

You'll find out later that you'll want to corner balance the car, run some different alignment (I run as much as -3.5 and -4.0 degrees, and I run -1.5 on the street, god I love camber plates). I have a few friends that run Brembos (even stock STi brembos) and they crack slotted and x-drilled rotors (heck even I have plenty of times, that's why I like going back to stock rotors or just thicker rotors because they dont wear out the pads soo fast and they can handle the heat. I just get better higher temp brake pads that can handle the 1200F+ heat that it produces in a matter of a few laps). Not all "upgraded" brake pads are the same, just like how there's many different tire types and even different turbos to give you what you need to perform correctly. Some "upgraded" rotors aren't all that good over stock, unless you have vaned rotors with really THICK discs for the rotors to retain/disperse all that heat you generate from braking.. I made my rotors glow before and even smoke up.. I can only imagine your car could do the same since you had twice the power of my car and probably just about near the same weight.

As for the rotors, you want them to be thicker and possibly run something like Motul RBF600 brake fluid and a brake duct kit cuz your car has a LOT of speed. Im sure you probably have the Hawk HPS or something like that.. you'll probably need something better like Hawk HP+ or some race track compound as your brake pads will glaze, brake fluid might boiled out or that your brakes just fade (slowly stop working) after a few hard laps due to the heat.. it just sucks when you are doing 140 mph+ and the brakes start to fade, the car just doesnt want to stop because the brakes are too hot and all you can do is drive straight into the sand trap to slow the car down. Trust me, it's happend to me quite a few times when the brakes just cant handle the heat (and my cars were basically making 200 whp to 230 whp at 3000 to 3500 lbs).. I had plenty of kenetic energy going into the turn, the brakes just cant handle such short stop distances so I had to slow down way earlier to make sure I can make the turn.

You can run on the Volks (light weight wheels is always better), just get better tires.. most of us run as wide as possible and get some really stick DOT-R-compounds like Toyo RA-1s if you decide to start tracking (just dont get a full slick, those dont give you any warning when they give up on grip.. street tires fade and it's easier to know when they are about to give up on the grip). Go with a wide wheel, you'll love it more later when you can put in some 315s under the rear of your car.

Definitely just come out to a track event, run the car as-is, learn a few things that you may want to change later for a better all-around car.. the thing I love about the road race tracks is that the car will see soo much more driving time and it spends a lot more time in the gears so you can get a much better tune out of the car overall, from suspension to braking, to power and go through different conditions such as rain setup, cold days, hot days, etc.

Drag only has 10 to 15 seconds to only test out 1st to 4th gear, maybe 5th if the gearing is short.. and braking isnt much to even think about.

Autox can test out a lot on suspension, but again, you only spend like 3 to 4 mins in the car when doing it AND you can only carry 2nd gear (maybe 3rd for some) and the speeds that you go dont have the potential energy to simulate what the car could handle.

xenonk

I guess Brent had a lot of fun and tired himself out during his first track weekend?

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

I had a lot of fun... and yes, as I was getting into it harder and harder into the last session, I am pretty sure I had brake fade... That is what caused me to spin in turn 5. I entered way too hot but knew I would never make it coasting, so gave it a little throttle, and missed the apex and did not have a chance of making the exit... SO I let off the throttle and the back end just shot out on me. I did manage to spin it out on the track mostly and stopped just on the side of the track. That was enough for me that day, I pitted and checked the car for damage.. It's all good and I can't wait for another free weekend to get back out there.

I do look forward to getting my z out on the track once… I might not be able to take the corners like I can in the Lotus but that long straightaway…. I bet I could hit 150 mph in the Z instead of the paltry 128 mph in the Elise… and that was with some very late breaking at the II hash mark. Not that is matters, that much power on a road course would most likely be impossible to control in the corners…
--B

xenonk

At 800+ hp, you should be able to do 170 mph, but it depends on how much your Z will weigh then and how well you exit out of turn 10 The vettes in the instructor group could do easily 140 mph.. heck even my old WRX at 230 hp at 3100 lbs could do 140 mph.. I dont see how your Z couldnt once you have all that power.. maybe it's time to up the suspension and brakes on your Z to handle your 3900 chassis to tackle some of the turns.


Btw, you looked great out there as I was instructing my student in the #444 white Evo. Sorry that I didnt get the chance to talk to you throughout the whole weekend, but it's good to see that you had a lot of fun. I think you did well for your first track day in the Elise. I know for certain your Z is a lot to handle, especially at 3900 lbs. You should get wider tires on the Z and maybe get a wider fenders like the JGTC GT500 350z do




I dont know how you are ever going to be able to put down 800 hp on a set of 315s

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Well, I do not want to think of what it would be like trying to stop 3900lbs going 170mph into turn 1…. I figure 150 is a nice easy speed to hit and still give me some time to get into the brakes a bit early. I also think I would have to take the entry into the turns slower then I can with the Elise. I am sure you could hit it much faster once you know what you are doing, but right now I am learning and the Z is waayyy too much money for me to lose control in a corner.

As for the brakes/ suspension. I would think the AP Racing kit (6/4 pot) I have would be OK for the track (just need Hi-Temp pads). The rotors, well they are the Stillen rotors with the kit and I hope would be able to take the track abuse for a little while at least. The Tein suspension would have to either be upgraded to Flex or something else and I would have to get some chassis braces, and probably go with the SPC camber/toe kits for proper adjustability. All of the above would imply I would Track that car a lot. Right now, I think I would be better off racing the Lotus and keeping the Z for show, Rallies and occasional street runs etc. I mean I would love to get the Z on the track, but I would not do it very often and probably only for 1 or 2 sessions to get the feel of it. I think I could really hurt myself with that much power and understeer....

Thanks for the encouraging words. I did have a good time and my instructor Sony (sp?) was great. I know you were pretty busy yourself and with all of the custom setups you guys do, I bet it keeps you busy checking things between runs and students. I have 305’s right now on the Z and will pull the fenders more to upgrade to 315’s. I really do not think I could possibly fit wider tires then that without going for a widebody or fender flares. Unless someone sponsors that car, I simply can not afford any extensive body work. A widebody kit would run about $15k installed/painted and then I would need some custom wheels to fit the massive rear. That could be another $4k… I just don’t have that kind of scratch lying around

It was good seeing you at the track. I hope to hang out with you more next time. Oh, as for the JGTC & GT500, I only wish I had 1/10th their budget and 1/100th their skills
--B

xenonk

dude, you learned a lot this weekend!! that's awesome.

Yea, 800+ whp will be hard to put down on the car, even for the track.. I have no idea where you could even use that kind of power other than on a straight road.

Glad you had fun out there, maybe you might end up with one of the instructors that drives a 350Z (I know the head instructor drives a stock Yellow one). The next event is in October, and the registration is already open for that: www.nasaracing.net

mdracer76

iTrader: (1)

John (instrucor w/ silver Z) better get new tires and brakes before the next event

He took a nasty spin right in front of Doc and I on 10.

xenonk

^ haha, he hasnt been on track for like 6 weeks running on street tires John is a good driver and a good instructor, but he just pushed it a little bit too much for a set of street tires.. on Sunday he swapped to r-compounds and he's back to his normal self..

most of us who run on r-compounds too long take them for granted when we go back to street tires


I just cant wait to what 800+ whp even looks like going down the front straight at Summit Point.. just make sure you break in that motor correctly Brent.

John

iTrader: (17)

Good seeing you guys this weekend - Brent, hope you enjoyed your ride.

As much as I'd like to say I ran on R-compounds on Sunday, the tire guys gave up trying to get them on my track wheels. So I ran two sessions on the street tires, and decided to call it an early day.

haha, you mean this? Wheeeee!!!! **right click save as**

I don't need new brakes, just some fresh fluid. This video should serve as a testament for the need to be up to date on your preventive maintenance. Don't be a lazy schlub like me...

I usually run and pass those Vettes when I run on my normal tires - and I can assure you that they're not doing much more than 145. Heck, even at VIR, the T1 Z06s are only hitting 145 on the radar gun. Keep in mind that most manufacturers speedos are extremely skewed - to put it in perspective, a guy in a 911SC and I were running 1:25s last year and his speedo indicated 150 while mine was at 135. As much as I'd like to believe my speedo was inaccurate, I know it wasn't. The fastest I've seen my speedo on Summit was about 137, and that was earlier this summer when I broke into the high 1:24s. My car is about 3300lbs with me in it, and probably about 255whp.

AdamDC

Are any of you guys going to be at summit on September 8th for FATT?

I will be there with a stock Viper, just wondering if there will be any friendly faces.

PumpedVA

iTrader: (25)

Brent hows the car coming? god maybe I should ask this question.

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Toby: Things are moving along.. I ‘expect’ to have the engine completed (and possibly installed) this week, then have the tuning done next week before the NJ event. You sure you don’t want to do the Super Street run or NOPI in Atlanta…

I honestly do not think I will be able to make any more track days until November do to my traveling schedule. I will check into events when my weekends are free again.

John: That ride was something else man… I know there was a point when I was very tempted to ask you to slow down… you were hitting those turns like a demon and around turn # 5, 7 & 8 I thought we were going to be meeting those tire walls… or the car next to us…
As for top speed, I know on the straight I was able to just get into 5th and hit about 128mph before getting into the brakes (probably too early I am sure). If I exit turn #10 OK in the Z, I should be able to hit 150mph before having to stand on the brakes… but only time will tell. My Z is about 4000 lbs with me in it, but considering I would probably run that track with medium boost, say 550 or 600 whp, my main concern would be braking into turn #1… I am just not sure if I could stop that much weight that quickly. I would definitely start slow, concentrate on exiting 10 correctly and then see about building up speed and figuring out the correct braking zone into turn #1.

Figure the Elise is pushing 2000 lbs with 155 whp, (12.9 lbs per whp) and the Z was pushing 4000 lbs with 500 whp, (8 lbs per whp)… You can see that I have increased the power to weight ratio by 1/3rd. If I can keep the power on the road surface, then I should be able to increase my max speed by 40 mph IF I enter the straightaway at the same speed as the Elise. All theory anyway reality on the track is completely different..

AdamDC

Just to give you an idea, I am just able to get into 5th gear if I hit 10 correctly. That puts me at about 150 (with my 3.55 gears, redline in 4th is 140) and leaves me plenty of time to brake.

I'm a little conservative on turn 1 and usually bring it up to 150 and then coast the last part of the straight. 150 is fast enough for me and I would rather be a little more gentle on the brakes and not end up in the gravel.

Considering I am stock with just an intake and exhaust, you should be able to hit 150 no problem.



BTW, I was the owner of the black Viper and hung out with you and Kelley for a little while at the Frederick meet.

xenonk

^ crazy stuff, but all good points. If Bert's car can do almost 120 mph from a standing still using 400 whp, I cant see why you guys cant hit over 150 at 800 or even 600 whp when you can exit out of turn 10 around 85 to 90 mph (even in my GT I hit 80 mph just right at the apex and by the time I track out, I am already doing 85 mph).

Brent's beast will just pass people as if they were standing still. That's going to be some sight.

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Here is some more updated info and a couple of pics of the car..

https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/211882-800-whp-engine-build-almost-done.html

I expect to pick her up Friday night and spend the weekend cleaning her and trying to put 1000 miles on her in 2 days... My A$$ & back are gonna be sore come Monday Then I get 3 days to recover at work before driving another 750 miles to NOPI. Then 3 more days to recover then another 500 mile drive to Orlando. YEA!!!

4SHIZZIL

iTrader: (10)

730 Drivers meeting...would that be one where we get 5 points added to our DMV record if done voluntarily? LOL.

xenonk

730 Drivers meeting was refering to the track day we had at Summit Point Raceway.. and no, we would not get points added at all

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

Alright, I got the car back on Friday and put some miles on her over the weekend... Drove around NoVa, Maryland, & West Virginia… Yea-Haw…

Frank said it started up on the first try running fairly smooth. She feels like she is running good. I had to keep her under 3500 rpm and no boost, but she pulls well and sounds good. There is some sort of problem with the brakes, not sure if I have a bad rotor or one of the calipers is screwed up, but Frank is looking at it now. I also need to look into an alignment, but otherwise everything appears OK for the moment.

BIG CUDO’S go out to Frank and the Crew at AAM for doing everything they could to get the car back to me on the deadline I set.

Mike is tuning the car for stock boost now, and I expect to be back in the 400 club for the time being but we shall see how the cams and larger turbos effect the hp/torque curves. Because of the short break in time (2 days) I don’t want to go to high on the boost until the engine gets a lot more easy miles on her. I am leaving for NOPI Thursday, FL next week and then Maine in early October. After that we will review the car and see how much boost she can take. Until then, I guess we are on hold.

It has been an interesting adventure guys.
--B

BamBam

iTrader: (4)

well, I got her back today after Mike@AAM put some time on the dyno and on the street with my Baby...

Here is what we have so far

Low Boost: 483 whp/ 418 ftlbs @8 PSI
High Boost: 517 whp/ 444 ftlbs @12 PSI
The RevLimiter is now set to well above 7,600 and the dyno pulls were stopped roughly around 7,300 RPM

She drives really well. One of the things I noticed was that it pulls pretty hard, but it is a very nice smooth feeling, not quite like the JWT, but much smoother then the stock GReddy kit. Also, since we upgraded the Turbos, then spool up about 750 rpm then before. I used to say the boost was in full throttle by 3250rpm, but now it feels more like around 3750 - 4000 rpm before it just throws you in your seat..

All in all; the car drives well, feels solid and I am looking forward to putting some miles on her in the coming weeks. Then after a month of North South adventures, we can come back and see about cranking that boost up another 10 PSI or more.
--B

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Curious where your car makes peak whp at with those C2 cams?