hmm interesting thread.. this wouldn't even be a question on a sportbiker forum, where the majority of talented riders go 10/10ths only at the track, so it'd be hard to tell who's better. to me, pushing the envelope on the street is more a question of your environment, equipment, and how much you're willing to ignore risks rather than any subjective driving skill... most people who've ever set foot on a track tend not to push it on backroads anymore.

 

Yes! Totally two different driving styles. Great analogy on the MMA events! That's totally what this discussion is all about. It's like putting an off-roader vs a track driver vs a 1/4 mile expert vs backroad vs rally driver all on the same road... which style works best and how can each style benefit in what situation? For example, 1/4 mile drivers will probably excel greatly when the road turns straight so he can put his lightning fast shift technique into use, then when the road is visible for 3-4 turns - the track driver might have the advantage since he can clearly indicate which line is best to take for the 3 upcoming corners... then the road turns into 10 sharp blind corners - the backroad driver might have the advantage since he's totally use to this stuff and "the best driving line" becomes quite vague to other drivers... then we approach hills where you jump/bumps/potholes/gravel up ahead... the rally driver might be able to put his skills into use. Wouldn't it then be beneficial to learn all techniques to be the most well rounded individual in order to achieve the fastest time - just like MMA fighting? Most MMA fighters know more than one technique of fighting - that's the only way they're going to survive in there! For example - if you only knew submission fighting and your strategy is to get your opponent on the floor... what happens when you cant and you're up against a striker who slugs you in the face a few thousand times before you can even get close? Then what? Ain't no arm-bar gonna work when you're choking on your own blood and half the time you're protecting yourself from getting smashed in the face... submission would thus prove useless at this point - you're going to have to know more than 1 technique in anything you do in order to be the best.

However, I was always curious if bumping or nudging is allowed on a track? Like can you spin the guy out infront of you to get ahead?

You can be good at anything you want to be good in, it just takes a crap load of seat time! Motorcycle riders say, "Everyone crashes once, after that - you're less likely to do something dumb... but everyone has to have their first crash even if it's at 1mph and they drop their bike.. it still counts." Same rules apply on the backroads - yes, you're probably going to crash eventually - it's just all in the learning process. Not to say that you absolutely have to crash to learn, but I've probably seen 6-7 crashes first hand... one of which includes a friend of mine doing a 360 in mid-air... yes.. he flipped his entire car 360 degrees in the air like in the movies.. don't ask LOL. It's all in who you train with and how well you know your limits (my buddy in this specific example - ignored all limitations.) The most important part is to keep it safe though, nothing gets too "crazy" out here unless you're with inexperienced drivers who drive past their limits and smashes into everyone... THEN you might have a problem. I tend not not drive w/ anyone I don't know because of this reason - what's more unpredictable than a backroad is a guy who doesn't know his limitations of himself and of his car.

 

Well said. Like I said hope you didnt take it as a criticism. I know the limitation and drive conservatively as I can. (I did get sway bars for a reason however)

 

your exactly right,knowing your cars limits is key.Great right up!Best thread ever.

 

I was suprised by how fast they were taking the turns but had to adjust very quickly after loosing their tail lights and missing a turn on our first run. The adrenaline was definately pumping but I was trying to be as careful as possible as I did not want my Z to be wrapped around a tree, end up in jail or hit another vehicle.

Nothing beats the tackling the Tail of the Dragon for adrenaline and smile inducing excitement though.

 

Dude, on the second run, when I was running behind you I saw how you were the only one NOT using the brakes!!!

I know your car is an auto, and I do not know if they have the shifter thingy. But unless you were using your tranny to brake, I have no clue how were you able to take some turns without braking or sliding out of the road!!

 

Uuuh, aaaah, you didn't even know if it was my second time driving the damn car!!

 

Sticky tires and tackling the Tail of the Dragon will help

Also knowing what was coming by looking at the two lead cars helped alot with avoiding unnecessary braking.

 

I stopped using my brakes too because after an hour or so... they stopped working! ....which made it even more fun!

2nd time driving the Z? Very niiiiice!

I'll have to introduce you guys to the super duper secret spot in MD - 3 whole miles of insane whacky fun. When Metro used to exist back in the street racing days (in 1998) where 1/4 mile racing was big, there was another group of underground racing - backroad racers where its you vs another car on a 1 lane road from point A to B - I'll show you their spot... it's freakin' SICK!

 

Sounds like a movie plot.....hmmmmmm cant put my finger on the name of it. what the hell was it called? oh well







j/k anh

 

HAHAHAHA! It's funny you mention that, because the things we all did back in the 90's was what inspired the first movies to come out. You can't really get the same experience these days because it's so regulated and the gov't put speed bumps where people used to run around here. Back in 1998 if you had a super loud fart can exhaust - you'd never get a ticket for it because cops didn't know what in the world it was... probably just thought you had a hole in your pipe or something nor did they care. These days since everyone knows about it and you can't go down a block without seeing a modded car, it's not all that underground anymore. The scene turned into a bunch of "meets" where you stand around in look at other people's pretty cars. Back in the 90's, there were no "meets" no "forums" you met up to race and that's all you did from 9pm till the sun came up. I'll write another thread on that one and name it "Before Internet Forums and Car meets" or something like that, LOL

 

lol.k.

 

I believe that move is called the "Turetto"....

 

LETS ALL GO TOUGE! i got some country roads up here in bum**** maryland.

 

I said you didn't know "IF" it was my second time on the Z

Everything said, there was almost half a year since I drove that machine. Crazy to get used to the heel and toe there with such a sensitive brake pedal!!

 

worst.thread.ever.

 

This has NOTHING to do with driving styles b/c even experienced track drivers have their own "style" when they drive. Same with the street racers...each will have their own "style" in how they drive.

This 100% has to do with driver mentality and nothing to do with the "style" in which they drive.

 

driving styles differ from one type of course to another, however the capacity to learn differs from one course to another as well. When one speaks of "mentality" - a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines how you will interpret and respond to situations - this is true on the most part from the prior learning environment they were placed in vs the road they are currently on whether that be a track/backroad/dirt road etc. Thus the mentality of a track racer vs a backroad racer may be different, but the ultimate question at hand is: capacity for ultimate road knowledge. One environment may produce a certain type of mentality and skill-set, but not the optimal learning capacity for roads overall. Therefore the theory would be better answered if you were to place many environments for the individual in order to expand the capacity and broaden their mentality range. This thread wasn't simply about "style," styles weren't covered until pg. 2 which is but a subset of the larger item at hand: The Capacity to learn equation: ("X" track x "Y" track x "Z" road) = Overall road knowledge. Mentality alone wouldn't be 100% of the equation since this is a changing variable which depends on what type of road course you may be on. Sometimes, people may need to change their mentality in order to adapt to changing variables within the current environment ie. an unknown road course or unknown opponents. On the flipside, the "style" they learned on the track might change from say... aggressive to defensive considering the fact that this particular individual might not be used to 10 blind corners in a row. If ya get what I meeean

 

Road knowledge=knowledge of a road? or course?

The knowledge of a road or course will change the way a driver attacks the course or drives it. As the knowledge improves so will the skill of the driver on that particular layout, course, road, whatever.

Maybe Im not understanding what your trying to compare. A driver is a driver. If you know the course you prepare ahead of time then it just comes down to driver skill.

 

The point is - there is no preparation time prior to hitting the course. So what type of knowledge would best suite changing variables on (____ road?)

By Road Knowledge I mean all types of roads. Say you take an average joe and throw him on a perfectly flat smooth paved track and tell him to get the best lap time in 1 try. Then you throw him on a mountain pass and you tell him to get to the bottom of the mountain as fast as he can in 1 try.

If he's been trained in one type of road all his life, and for argument sake say it was that perfectly paved track - then he's going to get a great lap time if he gets thrown on similar tracks since he's used to this type of driving style correct? You can safely apply what you learn at say.. Summit Point to certain turns or straights at VIR.

And say this individual drives on tracks his entire life w/o any backroad experience, he's a track superstar.

However, if you place the same individual in an unknown environment whether that be a backroad/mountain road or whatever road that is out of his immediate comfort zone - he'll have a totally different mentality when tackling the course and totally different driving style solely because he's never encountered such types of roads before in his entire life.

Knowledge is based upon possible experience, if the driver has never experienced roads with potholes, hillcimbs, flooded areas, and jumps, chances are that this "expert" track driver is not really going to know how to handle it on his/her first try.

Now the theory is: just because you drive on a track doesn't mean you're going to be good on a backroad and vice versa. Therefore, the solution to such a problem would be to introduce many types of environments for the individual to learn in in order to expand his capacity to learn changing variables regardless of what type of road or track he's thrown onto. The bottom line is: knowing how to drive on a track alone won't make you the best driver.