icic. but i'm not really sure wat you people mean by "blip the throttle , and the whole heel and toe concept.. , i want to oversteer and take a corner faster, i just downshift, and oversteer , but of course braking at some points.

 

icic. but i'm not really sure wat you people mean by "blip the throttle , and the whole heel and toe concept.. , im a newbie, i know

 

Come on guys, we've posted a lot of info on Heel and Toe already. Do a little searching. It really isn't as difficult as it sounds.

Blip = rev engine quick. Like people do at a stop light when they wanna race.

 

blip the throttle means give a little gas...

 

I'm pretty sure what you've just described is double-clutching WITH heel-and-toe...

Heel and toe doesn't have to double-clutch (blip while neutral).

-slay

 

Not to be a pain in the *** or anything, but oversteering through a corner is almost always slower than going through it properly.

As for heel-and-toe downshifts, you don't really get a sense of how important it is on the street (since you're never going to be cornering anywhere near the limit of the car). But if you ever get out on the track and start approaching the limits of the car, you'll see why heel-and-toe is so important.

Here's a helpful link that I've posted before: Heel and toe

Hope it helps,

Emre

 

only way i've seen oversteer or drifting to be quicker through a corner is when the car was being setup to take a proper line from the apex on by letting the car drag all 4 wheels in a drift to get there.. what i'm sayin is that you point the car the direction you want it to be traveling post apex and hope that your car slows down enough (has enough power to pull out of it) from that point on. and even then it rarely is faster than grip driving because you can slow down faster in a straight line than draggin 4 wheels. so you can keep going fsater for longer on the straight before having to start slowing down. however you can be giong faster when rotating the car than if you were grip driving because manytimes you'll not have proper balance or be going to fast to get the car to to turn in properly and you'll get bad understeer (at that limit)

 

i have found double clutching to be redundant if done with blipping the throttle.

as for toe heel "maneuver," two things,

the time that the car is in "neutral" (or in gear with the clutch depressed) is negligible in most curves. i've seen someone master this technique and it IS smooth...(but not worth learning in the Z)

i do not perceive it as a vital part of driving.

Z owners/drivers, anyone agree?

 

Agreed. Double clutching is totally unnecessary on a car with a synchro mesh gearbox. Let the synchros do their job!

I'm afraid I have to disagree strongly. The key element to driving really fast is smoothness. When you're at the limit of the car, any harshness to your inputs will upset that delicate balance and throw you off line.

If you go to a high performance driving school, you'll see that pretty much the only thing they teach you is how to smooth your transitions from braking/downshifting to turning in to balancing to the apex then maintaining that smoothness as you unwind the wheel and bleed on the power. The truly fast drivers are the guys that have mastered smoothly transferring the weight around the car. They can conserve their momentum through the turns and charge down the straights.

The heel-and-toe downshift is just one element in the smooth transition from braking to turn-in (probably the single most critical area in driving fast). If you don't do it, you're either wasting time and over-braking or making abrupt inputs that will unbalance the car. On the street you can get away with this stuff since you never even approach the cornering limits of the car. But on track it's either slow or dangerous.

If you feel that "it's not worth learning in the Z" that's probably because the limits of the car are so high. In a way, that makes it harder to learn to drive really well: the car masks a lot of mistakes because it has so much in reserve. That's why I still drive my 1991 E30 318is on the track even though I have newer/faster cars (like a 1999 E36 323is). The E30 really requires you to conserve every ounce of momentum through the turns since there isn't enough power to pull you ahead of another car on the next straight. Also, I have less total grip so I can drive at the limits of the car without scaring myself silly.

Emre

 

You know this is stupid, I'm going to get two camera's and film heel toe driving at the track and on the street. The Best Motoring Video's are cool but I beleive their feet action is way too animated and a waste of energy. If your feet are wide enough you don't need to be doing that much work.

Can anyone tell me where to get those camera brackets. I'll make it my project before the end of the month. Then there will be no more explaining what to do when, just watch!

 

Kayaalp,

you're right, the Z masks so many imperfections in driving, i've become complacent with my driving style.

then we'll agree to disagree. i don't think i will practice on my car; i'd rather use up my clutch and brakes for good use.

for serious racers, it is a worthwhile technique.

be safe,
vic

 

Double clutching is not necessary in any car with synchros, which is basically every car out in the market today. It was important back in the day in that it helped prolong the lifespan of the gearbox.

I agree with the comments made that fast driving is all about smoothness. Any kid who has played any racing game on a PS2 or XBOX understands that basic rule. If you can brake enough so that you are at the limits of adhesion, and then maneuver through a turn, you will be faster than if you brake too much and rely on your power to get out or if you brake too little and use the wall to bounce you back on the track. While obviously video games don't nearly mimic real driving mechanics, the ways of being successful at them are sometimes close