Midwest Track Day - Gingerman, So. Haven, MI
03-19-2003, 04:19 PM
#21
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I have my Snell M2000 certified HJC motorcycle helmet....that should satisfy the helmet requirment for the event right?
Also I tried to go to the link listed to DL the registration forms, but the link was invalid....help?
Also I tried to go to the link listed to DL the registration forms, but the link was invalid....help?
03-19-2003, 04:28 PM
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BriGuyMax
I believe that the M2000 is OK. I'll verify that with my counterparts on the Alfa Romeo club. I believe that the difference between M and SA ratings is that the M measures a large single impact situation for motorcycle and SA measures multiple but slightly lesser impacts to account for roof and roll cage situations.
Be back to you on that.
As to the application, I went to both of the "Event Application" links and was able to download the Microsoft Word (doc) format and the Adobe Acrobat (pdf) format. There may have been a server problem when you tried but it's working now. You can try again or send your email address to me by PM and I'll be sure to reply with an attached application.
I believe that the M2000 is OK. I'll verify that with my counterparts on the Alfa Romeo club. I believe that the difference between M and SA ratings is that the M measures a large single impact situation for motorcycle and SA measures multiple but slightly lesser impacts to account for roof and roll cage situations.
Be back to you on that.
As to the application, I went to both of the "Event Application" links and was able to download the Microsoft Word (doc) format and the Adobe Acrobat (pdf) format. There may have been a server problem when you tried but it's working now. You can try again or send your email address to me by PM and I'll be sure to reply with an attached application.
03-19-2003, 04:31 PM
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BriGuyMax
I just went and read the FAQ linked to the event web site that I wrote. I'm embarassed to say that it's clear that the M rated helmet is permitted but not recommended.
Sorry for not being on top of that.
I just went and read the FAQ linked to the event web site that I wrote. I'm embarassed to say that it's clear that the M rated helmet is permitted but not recommended.
Sorry for not being on top of that.
03-19-2003, 05:02 PM
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I could be wrong here, and I don't want to go too far off topic, but I believe the difference in M vs SA ratings is fire protection. The SA helmets are lined with nomex vs. the M helmets which are generally lined with nylon or cotton.
03-21-2003, 11:34 AM
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Is anyone swapping brake pads or any other item on their 350s for this event? Does anyone have any recommendations for dedicated track day pads for the brembos?
chahny
chahny
03-21-2003, 01:47 PM
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few questions:
Hi Laterapex,
I am really interested in going to the Gingerman event since its not to far from Chicago.
Just a few questions:
1.
My brother and I are both first timers. I know it FAQ on the website states thatto people, both paying the full fees, can share a car. Will this be okay for 2 first timers as well since we will have to share the training time with a tutor (we will both pay the full fee obviously).
2.
Also,, what type of wear and tear on tires and brake pads would you expect for a first timer?
I was told not to worry to much about it but I want to make sure. Should I bring a pair of brake pads (I'm sure I have less than 50% wear but will double check beforehand)? I am assuming to bring my own brake fluid since I would like to go attend the morning get together on how to bleed the lines. Would you recommend for a first timer to switch to DOT 5 beforehand? How much tread depth on stock tires would be acceptable before that coming that day? Just FYI, I have ~7K miles on my stock 350Z tires (RE040).
3.
and finally, can we just get anyone with experience to fill out the pre-inspection checklist? just curious .
Thanks, I greatly appreciate your help with my questions.
RaymanZ
I am really interested in going to the Gingerman event since its not to far from Chicago.
Just a few questions:
1.
My brother and I are both first timers. I know it FAQ on the website states thatto people, both paying the full fees, can share a car. Will this be okay for 2 first timers as well since we will have to share the training time with a tutor (we will both pay the full fee obviously).
2.
Also,, what type of wear and tear on tires and brake pads would you expect for a first timer?
I was told not to worry to much about it but I want to make sure. Should I bring a pair of brake pads (I'm sure I have less than 50% wear but will double check beforehand)? I am assuming to bring my own brake fluid since I would like to go attend the morning get together on how to bleed the lines. Would you recommend for a first timer to switch to DOT 5 beforehand? How much tread depth on stock tires would be acceptable before that coming that day? Just FYI, I have ~7K miles on my stock 350Z tires (RE040).
3.
and finally, can we just get anyone with experience to fill out the pre-inspection checklist? just curious .
Thanks, I greatly appreciate your help with my questions.
RaymanZ
03-21-2003, 08:44 PM
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Bring an extra set of pads just in case, but being a first timer, I wouldn't expect any problem. I say this because your first time out on a road course is downright intimidating and you WON'T be going ***** out. To go through a set of pads in a day you have to be driving VERY hard, you won't be driving that hard but you might as well be safe.
As far as what pads to use, I'm not familiar with what comes on the normal nor the Track Brembo brakes. I can only speak for myself and my maxima, but an OEM pad WILL NOT cut it. My first time out at Gingerman I was running Hawk HPS, a good autoX / agressive street pad. My car was not nearly as fast as a stock Z at that time, and those pads started to go away after about 3 hot laps and things could get a little hairy at the end of the longer straightaways. Now I use Hawk HP-Plus, a full race compound and they work marvelously, very strong and very consistent throughout 20 minute hot lapping sessions, and my car/driving skills are putting much higher demands on my pads now. Of course though, a 350Z, Track or non, has superior braking capability than my Maxima, but I wouldn't run an OEM pad on a road course if I could possibly avoid it.
Some pads to consider off the top of my head are:
Hawk HP-Plus
Carbotech Panther XP
Porterfield R4E
I don't know if any of these have applications available for the 350Z normal or Track.
As far as what pads to use, I'm not familiar with what comes on the normal nor the Track Brembo brakes. I can only speak for myself and my maxima, but an OEM pad WILL NOT cut it. My first time out at Gingerman I was running Hawk HPS, a good autoX / agressive street pad. My car was not nearly as fast as a stock Z at that time, and those pads started to go away after about 3 hot laps and things could get a little hairy at the end of the longer straightaways. Now I use Hawk HP-Plus, a full race compound and they work marvelously, very strong and very consistent throughout 20 minute hot lapping sessions, and my car/driving skills are putting much higher demands on my pads now. Of course though, a 350Z, Track or non, has superior braking capability than my Maxima, but I wouldn't run an OEM pad on a road course if I could possibly avoid it.
Some pads to consider off the top of my head are:
Hawk HP-Plus
Carbotech Panther XP
Porterfield R4E
I don't know if any of these have applications available for the 350Z normal or Track.
03-21-2003, 09:05 PM
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An update on the pad situation, I checked a thread in the performance section and it appears that Carbotech, Endless, and Hawk all have pads out for the Z.
Carbotech Panther, Panther+, and XP, Hawk HPS and HP Plus, Endless CC-M, CC-X, MA-11, etc.
Carbotech Panther, Panther+, and XP, Hawk HPS and HP Plus, Endless CC-M, CC-X, MA-11, etc.
03-22-2003, 07:41 AM
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raymanZ,
The Chicago area is very fortunate to have such a truly safe track that's within a convenient distance. You'll be welcome there.
Nealoc187 has done a yeoman's job of responding. Let me just elaborate.
While there is no restriction on two registrants sharing a car within the same cohort or group, I do not recommend it on the basis of value. Back seat occupants are not permitted. The sole exception to this is the low-speed, familiarization tour of the track at the outset of the day. So, if you have the ability for, say, 8 track sessions, sharing withint the same cohort will only give you 4 track sessions. Of course, if you find this acceptable, please do so.
I highly recommend bringing or arriving with performance brake pads installed. My neighbor is likely to be there with his Audi and he's going to Andie at Cobalt Friction for his pads (877.562.9237) on my recommendation. I'm very sure that he's prepared to service your car (http://www.cobaltfriction.com). I'm equally sure that there are other vendors related to this site or recommended by forum members that may be able to help you on pads.
While I'm a Pagid and Hawk brake pad proponent, Cobalt, Performance Friction, Ferodo, EBC and Axxis pads can be added to the good list provided by Nealoc187.
Regarding brake fluid, I warn you that I'm pretty strict with myself on this consumeable. I only use Motul RBF 600. If I were not able to get this, I would probably use Castrol SRF, ATE Super Blue, Cobalt XRF or AP Racing 600.
I change brake fluid prior to arrival at the track. If something has gone wrong, I'd like to have the chance to sort it out prior to be ing on the track at high speed. While you'll have time to do it at the track. it will leave you with sufficient time to learn the some of the special techniques that may be applicable to the 350Z and to check out your work. Perhaps you could organize a "bleed party" like I'm doing with several of the Chicagoland S2000 owners on the weekend prior to the event.
As a beginner, I would not expect to wear through a set of tires. They'll suffer extra wear but not enough to destroy them unless you are a lot faster than I would normally anticipate.
I run Toyo RA-1 competition tires and expect to get about 6-8 track days from that soft-compound rubber.
If you have someone with reasobable experience to guide you through the inspection, that should be sufficient. Just be fairly careful about it. It's important to be safe.
I'll try to remember to announce the S2000 plans for a bleed party so that others may have the opportunity to join. We've had the suggestion that the parking lot at Hooter's could be an interesting venue.
The Chicago area is very fortunate to have such a truly safe track that's within a convenient distance. You'll be welcome there.
Nealoc187 has done a yeoman's job of responding. Let me just elaborate.
While there is no restriction on two registrants sharing a car within the same cohort or group, I do not recommend it on the basis of value. Back seat occupants are not permitted. The sole exception to this is the low-speed, familiarization tour of the track at the outset of the day. So, if you have the ability for, say, 8 track sessions, sharing withint the same cohort will only give you 4 track sessions. Of course, if you find this acceptable, please do so.
I highly recommend bringing or arriving with performance brake pads installed. My neighbor is likely to be there with his Audi and he's going to Andie at Cobalt Friction for his pads (877.562.9237) on my recommendation. I'm very sure that he's prepared to service your car (http://www.cobaltfriction.com). I'm equally sure that there are other vendors related to this site or recommended by forum members that may be able to help you on pads.
While I'm a Pagid and Hawk brake pad proponent, Cobalt, Performance Friction, Ferodo, EBC and Axxis pads can be added to the good list provided by Nealoc187.
Regarding brake fluid, I warn you that I'm pretty strict with myself on this consumeable. I only use Motul RBF 600. If I were not able to get this, I would probably use Castrol SRF, ATE Super Blue, Cobalt XRF or AP Racing 600.
I change brake fluid prior to arrival at the track. If something has gone wrong, I'd like to have the chance to sort it out prior to be ing on the track at high speed. While you'll have time to do it at the track. it will leave you with sufficient time to learn the some of the special techniques that may be applicable to the 350Z and to check out your work. Perhaps you could organize a "bleed party" like I'm doing with several of the Chicagoland S2000 owners on the weekend prior to the event.
As a beginner, I would not expect to wear through a set of tires. They'll suffer extra wear but not enough to destroy them unless you are a lot faster than I would normally anticipate.
I run Toyo RA-1 competition tires and expect to get about 6-8 track days from that soft-compound rubber.
If you have someone with reasobable experience to guide you through the inspection, that should be sufficient. Just be fairly careful about it. It's important to be safe.
I'll try to remember to announce the S2000 plans for a bleed party so that others may have the opportunity to join. We've had the suggestion that the parking lot at Hooter's could be an interesting venue.
03-22-2003, 07:45 AM
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chahny,
I apologize for failing to inlcude you in the above response. I trust that response answers your question.
Equiping yourself with proper brake fluid and proper brake pads is recommended. Andie at Cobalt Friction can help you with this.
I apologize for failing to inlcude you in the above response. I trust that response answers your question.
Equiping yourself with proper brake fluid and proper brake pads is recommended. Andie at Cobalt Friction can help you with this.
03-22-2003, 12:46 PM
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thanks!
Thanks alot guys, for the valuable info. It is most informative. Now I know what I need to know. A little research has also directed me to Valvoline Supersyn Brake fluid. Its dry and wet boiling point are almost as high as Motul, but its something like 1/5th the cost!
Two final questions (my apologies for being so inquisitive, but hopefully, this also answer's other peoples similar questions) :
When you upgrade brake pads, do you recommend all four wheels? Hawk brake pads I believe only have front brake pads. I'll call your reference to check on other brands, but I would imagine it is most definitely important to upgrade all four since by only upgrading the front, your make it more front biased and that can actually lead to decreased performance...
Stainless steel lines: helpful for actual braking, or do they give you just a more solid FEEL? Also I heard they shoulnt be used for long (Should be replaced every year).
Thanks again guys,, I'll see you at Gingerman, and prepared thanks to your info!
RaymanZ
Two final questions (my apologies for being so inquisitive, but hopefully, this also answer's other peoples similar questions) :
When you upgrade brake pads, do you recommend all four wheels? Hawk brake pads I believe only have front brake pads. I'll call your reference to check on other brands, but I would imagine it is most definitely important to upgrade all four since by only upgrading the front, your make it more front biased and that can actually lead to decreased performance...
Stainless steel lines: helpful for actual braking, or do they give you just a more solid FEEL? Also I heard they shoulnt be used for long (Should be replaced every year).
Thanks again guys,, I'll see you at Gingerman, and prepared thanks to your info!
RaymanZ
03-22-2003, 01:59 PM
#33
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Re: thanks!
Originally posted by raymanZ
Thanks alot guys, for the valuable info. It is most informative. Now I know what I need to know. A little research has also directed me to Valvoline Supersyn Brake fluid. Its dry and wet boiling point are almost as high as Motul, but its something like 1/5th the cost!
Two final questions (my apologies for being so inquisitive, but hopefully, this also answer's other peoples similar questions) :
When you upgrade brake pads, do you recommend all four wheels? Hawk brake pads I believe only have front brake pads. I'll call your reference to check on other brands, but I would imagine it is most definitely important to upgrade all four since by only upgrading the front, your make it more front biased and that can actually lead to decreased performance...
Stainless steel lines: helpful for actual braking, or do they give you just a more solid FEEL? Also I heard they shoulnt be used for long (Should be replaced every year).
Thanks again guys,, I'll see you at Gingerman, and prepared thanks to your info!
RaymanZ
Thanks alot guys, for the valuable info. It is most informative. Now I know what I need to know. A little research has also directed me to Valvoline Supersyn Brake fluid. Its dry and wet boiling point are almost as high as Motul, but its something like 1/5th the cost!
Two final questions (my apologies for being so inquisitive, but hopefully, this also answer's other peoples similar questions) :
When you upgrade brake pads, do you recommend all four wheels? Hawk brake pads I believe only have front brake pads. I'll call your reference to check on other brands, but I would imagine it is most definitely important to upgrade all four since by only upgrading the front, your make it more front biased and that can actually lead to decreased performance...
Stainless steel lines: helpful for actual braking, or do they give you just a more solid FEEL? Also I heard they shoulnt be used for long (Should be replaced every year).
Thanks again guys,, I'll see you at Gingerman, and prepared thanks to your info!
RaymanZ
03-22-2003, 04:04 PM
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As BriGuyMax has said, for your first time out, front pad change alone is very likely to be adequate.
I usually use Pagid on the back but I may be using Axxis on this Gingerman day.
I'm not the right person to ask about stainless lines. I use Goodridge stainless lines and have never used any other brand.
The steel sheath combined with a teflon inner tube resist heat swellng to give you a consistent feel and ability to modulate braking force to match your driving needs and skills.
I use them on all my family's cars. But, I'm an ex-Marine which proves that I'm basically radical anyway.
I find changing lines every other year to be effective. If not used on the track, I'd never change them over the owership of, say, 5-7 years.
I usually use Pagid on the back but I may be using Axxis on this Gingerman day.
I'm not the right person to ask about stainless lines. I use Goodridge stainless lines and have never used any other brand.
The steel sheath combined with a teflon inner tube resist heat swellng to give you a consistent feel and ability to modulate braking force to match your driving needs and skills.
I use them on all my family's cars. But, I'm an ex-Marine which proves that I'm basically radical anyway.
I find changing lines every other year to be effective. If not used on the track, I'd never change them over the owership of, say, 5-7 years.
03-23-2003, 01:45 PM
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I think brake fluid might be just as important to swap out as brake pads. I'm not sure if the OE DOT 3 fluid will be up to the task. Any suggestions on this would be appreciated. Would anyone like to organize/host a brake fluid bleeding party around SE Michigan?
Thanks for the info, hope to see you there.
Thanks for the info, hope to see you there.
03-31-2003, 11:29 PM
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For whatever it's worth, The S2000 Club of America also has two other events going on.
The first is Texas World Speedway, on May 3-4, has opened up to other clubs and registrations have been coming in.
The second is Laguna Seca on Sunday, June 3, it is not open to members of the S2000 Club of America and just opened up to the members of the Northern Carlifornia Racing Club. If you want to go, you can join the S2KCA for $35 and then pay the entry fee. It may be worth it for LS
if you can make it.
Just go to http://www.s2kca.com and look for the banner menu on Events to see information on either event.
I'm actually thinking of going by flying out and renting a Corvette in 'Frisco and then going to LS for the day.
I may just tow my S2000. I'm undecided.
The first is Texas World Speedway, on May 3-4, has opened up to other clubs and registrations have been coming in.
The second is Laguna Seca on Sunday, June 3, it is not open to members of the S2000 Club of America and just opened up to the members of the Northern Carlifornia Racing Club. If you want to go, you can join the S2KCA for $35 and then pay the entry fee. It may be worth it for LS
if you can make it.Just go to http://www.s2kca.com and look for the banner menu on Events to see information on either event.
I'm actually thinking of going by flying out and renting a Corvette in 'Frisco and then going to LS for the day.
I may just tow my S2000. I'm undecided.
04-01-2003, 07:48 AM
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We've now got links set up for payment through PayPal.
If you are an AROC or S2KCA member, let me know and I'll post the membership link.
Registration for NON-S2KCA/AROC members ($120):
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/busine...rency_code=USD
Registration for touring at lunch ($20):
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/busine...rency_code=USD
If you are an AROC or S2KCA member, let me know and I'll post the membership link.
Registration for NON-S2KCA/AROC members ($120):
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/busine...rency_code=USD
Registration for touring at lunch ($20):
https://www.paypal.com/xclick/busine...rency_code=USD
04-17-2003, 08:29 AM
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The S2000 club is planning on organizing a Brake Pad/Brake Bleed/Tech inspection party on the Saturday (24 May) in the Chicagoland area.
Anyone interested in attending should send a PM to me so that I will know that I should follow up with them on final arrangements.
Anyone interested in attending should send a PM to me so that I will know that I should follow up with them on final arrangements.
05-07-2003, 01:00 PM
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The Guesthouse Inn is the Headquarters Hotel for the Gingerman Event.
It's located just off of I-196 at the South Haven exit for Phoenix Road.
The details are:
Guesthouse Inn
72320 Phoenix Road
South Haven, MI 49090
Reservations: 1-800-359-4827
Pre-event tech inspecitons for Saturday evening will be announced shortly. They will either be at the hotel parking lot near WalMart or at the Gingerman Raceway itself.
Stay tuned.
It's located just off of I-196 at the South Haven exit for Phoenix Road.
The details are:
Guesthouse Inn
72320 Phoenix Road
South Haven, MI 49090
Reservations: 1-800-359-4827
Pre-event tech inspecitons for Saturday evening will be announced shortly. They will either be at the hotel parking lot near WalMart or at the Gingerman Raceway itself.
Stay tuned.
05-07-2003, 07:13 PM
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Is registration still open for this? I held off before because I wasn't sure of what my tire/brake situation would be but I've got tires now and I just ordered everything I need for my 300ZX 4 piston conversion today so as long as the parts I recieve are the one's I ordered I'll be good to go.