Well let's see. I can't really put a percentage on it, but I can put it this way. Before the S-Tune, the Z could be huslted around a track quickly, but it was totally unenjoyable. It was like screwing a hot girl that just layed there.

Ok, for a bit more technical analysis. The Z is now a most excellent dancing partner. Before; car did not want to turn in. It fought you every step of the way trying to go straight at all costs. Trailbraking to keep weight on the nose did no good. Now; turn in is telepathic, get most of your braking done in a straight line, then trail off into the corner modulating the pressure to help the back of the car rotate outward as the front tracks down toward the corner apex.

Apply power to exit the corner and instead of the front continueing to push wide, you now have near neutrality at your disposal with a slight bias towards power OVERSTEER, especially exiting 2nd and 3rd gear corners. Apexed too early and running out of road? No problem, just slightly lift and tighten your exit even further without fear of the car swapping ends on you.

Faster corners like the Riverside at Buttonwillow (about 90mph or so) were perfect 4 wheel drifts. It might almost seem contradictory that the Z was so stable, yet handled so well. Hard to explain. The rear of the car however, did seem to dance around a lot more under braking.

As far as body roll reduction, the S-Tune was not extrememely aggressive and that is one reason I think the ride remains pretty good. I would say roll is reduced by about 1/3, but not completely eliminated.

 

who is this?


http://www.corystarr.com/mug/buttonwillow/index.htm

 

That is soooo sad....

I hope the driver is OK.

Ever since I spun out at Laguna and almost hit the wall, I've had flashbacks and realized how lucky I was not to break anything. I only wish this driver had the same luck I did.

Whoever you are, my heart goes out to you.

Good luck on the repairs!!

-D'oh!

 

Now that's what I call a terrific and graphic account of the Z's handling. I now feel I have an excellent idea of how the car will handle on track. Thanks!

Before the S-Tune, the Z could be huslted around a track quickly, but it was totally unenjoyable.

It's funny you would mention this. While I haven't driven the Z on track, I find its road manners the same "unenjoyable" experience. What makes it worse is the linear power delivery. IMO the stock suspension makes the car feel heavy and relatively unwilling to change direction. The same sensation you get from very under inflated tires.

I've been seriously considering selling the Z. Maybe the NISMO kit will inject a little life into the car.

Fly

 

It not only injects life, it transforms it! I simply do not understand how Nissan let the Z come to market in the form it did. Imagine the press Nissan could have received from the mags if it had been delivered with this suspension in the first place or at least on the Track model.

Granted, on public roads it doesn't make much difference unless you are travelling at superlegal speeds, but for a car so heavily advertised around it's track prowess, you could almost consider that FALSE advertising. Why are the lawyers allowed to play such a huge roll in a car's design? It's just sickening.

Let me put it another way. In a couple of months you will probably be able to buy the S-Tune setup with the ARB's for $1400-$1500. I paid over $2000 knowingly of that fact just to have the suspension now. The reason I paid the extra money was that it was either get the Z handling correctly now, or sell it. Taking the loss on selling it seemed a lot worse than the risk of spending a few extra $$$ on a proper suspension setup.

Nissan's legal dept needs to take some lessons from the Mazda Miata, Toyota MR2 Spyder, and Honda S2000. All cars that are stellar handlers and have been allowed to come to market as true driver's cars. Look at the excellent press these cars have received over the years, especially the Miata, for their handling? The little Miata wouldn't have even survived if not for it's handling, instead it's the greatest selling sports car of all time.

WAKE UP NISSAN!!!!!

 

Guys you must realize this is just the first year the car has come out. I am sure their will be many changes and upgrades to next years line to make the Z an even better car.

 

In this day and age, you might not get a second chance. Plus, many people took a big risk pre ordering the car. The Miata, S2000, and Toyota MR2 Spyder got it right the first time. Nissan should have too.

 

I agree when you say you might not get a second chance. But if you look at the domestic market it usually takes them the second run to get it just right. Considering everything thats going on within Nissan right now i think they did very well with this first run. As far as the Miata and MR2 go I wasnt impressed with them when they came out, im still not and would never buy one.

 

Hmm, I don't know what to say to you. The MR2 and Miata are undeniably awesome handling cars winning almost universal praise. If you aren't impressed by the two best cars in their class and the best selling sports car of all time in the Miata, what are you impressed by?

 

I know all too well what raceboy is saying. And I'm probably going to get shot for saying this, but, I think for the most part, the American car enthusiast (and certainly the average man in the street) has been use to years of driving heavy "muscle" cars from Detroit. The major difference between our normal transport and the enthusiast's car was far more about what was under the hood than a desire for razor sharp handling, steering and braking. For many, I’m sure the feeling of weight and something substantial around them is very reassuring.

Personally, I can see how the new Z will meet a lot of people's needs. It’s also undeniably tuned for safety. I think Best Motoring said it best: "It's designed for a first-time sports car owner whether young or old." From this perspective, the 350Z hit a home run. We also get to see how this immediate "comfort level" is capable of achieving competitive lap times against cars such as the E46 M3, Mustang, and Porsche 996. The Z also has a significant torque advantage over cars like the Honda S2000 and Porsche Boxster.

However, for those of us who have spent quality time behind the wheel of a lightweight, almost telepathically responsive car, with decent power to weight ratio and confidence inspiring brakes, the transition to the 350Z is a difficult one. Had the car been closer to the weight of the RX8, the transition would have been easier.

I just can't get comfortable with the way the Z leaves you so disconnected from the action. You end up relying more on it's computers to bail you out of trouble rather than your own sense of things around you. Ultimately, I fear the Z may get relegated to the stoplight racer, highway cruiser that the 300 became. This would be a shame given the level of engineering effort that has gone into this car. Clearly, the 350Z has potential. The lengths that Nissan went to in order to stiffen the chassis (which all racers know is the "foundation" for success) is quite extraordinary. Clearly, something bigger is planned for the Z33 chassis. Let’s hope more than just the heavier GT-R.

I have to tell you, each morning I have the choice of driving to work in either my 11 year old, 150HP, gutted, noisy and rattle riddled Nissan track car (with no CD or AC) or my brand new 350Z.

Why do I find it such a hard choice? In a word, the Z leaves me "unsatisfied". Clearly, something major has to be done about this. I agree with raceboy (and others on this site) who say the Track model should have offered a tuned suspension to go with that fancy set of wheels and gold colored brakes.

Thanks for you patience.

Fly

 

LOL, I go through the same dilema every morning as well. However, my decision is usually easy: the SE-R is parked behind the 350, therefore, it's less of a pain to just drive the SE-R than play musical cars.

I let 4 instructors drive my 350 at a BMWCCA DE a few weeks ago. Three of them are personal friends and current/former Z compadres and the last was the chief instructor. They all agreed that the 350 was very flat around corners (one even said it felt flatter than his 993 Turbo!) and easy to drive. They were a bit annoyed by the understeer, however, one said he felt more comfortable driving a 350 than an E46 M3.

Anyway... Apr 12-13 will be my turn to see how the 350 performs. I'm stoked.

Michael.

 

LOL, you won't get shot by me. At the risk of also getting flamed, the Z is just another "dumbed down" product for Americans. Why do we get the watered down version of everything here in America? I'll tell you why, because no one has a shred of personal responsability here. It's always someone else's fault. And once the lawyers get ahold of it, they can ruin a company. America is the land of the frivolous lawsuit. Some moron spills hot coffee on themselves, or get fat for eating too many cheeseburgers, or steps on the wrong pedal and slams their kid through a wall, and it's always someone else's fault.

I am not saying there isn't a place for lawyers, look at the Pinto; Ford decided it would be cheaper to pay off lawsuits than to actually fix the car. They knowingly let people burn to death. They were deservedly punished greatly for that. Now Ford is once again having the same issues with their police cars. Nice pattern Ford.

Now because of morons that don't wear seatbelts, I have to have airbags that are more forceful than they need to be endangering my safety and who can forget the ridiculous passive seatbelt systems of the '80's? Why should I have to have less safety to protect the idiots that won't protect themselves? Sorry, that is Darwinism at it's finest, the gene pool clensing itself of idiots, hopefully before they breed.

To sort this out, America needs a better system of sorting the lawsuits that have merit, from the ones that are simply profiteering.

The limits of a car like the Z are so high, that there is simply no way you could approach them at anywhere near legal speeds on public roads. Yet even on here, nearly every time someone crashes their Z, they always try to place the blame elsewhere. So from a financial end I can understand somewhat Nissan's decision, but then you see the S2000 and Miata and wonder why? At least on the "Track" model, put the S-Tune on there, let me sign a waiver and let's get on with life. Wouldn't that then satisfy everyone?

I know that might sound elitist, but I am not trying to be. How can you logically argue that someone who takes the reasonable precations to ensure their safety, should have to sacrifice some of that safety to protect someone else?

 

As a first time sports car owner, I believe the Z is fantastic.

However, even I, with my limited experience, have been frustrated by the understeer at the AutoX and Track. The Z definitely inspires confidence, and when driving at 9/10's, it is excellent. As soon as you hit the limit though, it is definitely a bit annoying, simply because there doesn't seem to be anything one can do to get the car to rotate. So as a street car, the Z is excellent because you won't really reach the limits unless you are really going nuts. As a track car, it could be more fun.

If the track version came with a better suspension, that definitely would have been my first choice. As it turns out, I guess I pre-ordered a pretty good compromise, which leaves me some money for the Nismo suspension when it finally does reach the states.

I appreciate all the info you more experienced folks are sharing, since it lets me anticipate what I can have in store if I decide to get ambitious with the modifications.

Thanks for opinions, whatever they may be.

-D'oh!

 

[Shame on Nissan for designing such a great product only to punk out at the end. By raceboy.]

Absolutely damn right! Great writeup on your track experiences, I got a real feel for your track runs. How far did you drive to get to the track and how did the suspension work on the highway and did you scrape the front or whatever from the drop?

I haven't decided on what to do about the stock suspension until Nissan makes a move. You are right, the S-Tune should have been the track model's stock suspension and an option on the other models.

I would bought in a heartbeat if it had been an option. Why else would they call the track model TRACK, if it wasn't any different from the other suspensions on all models?? Your comment about having to lay out $2K after you got the car is a message that Nissan needs to hear. I think they forgot what a sports car suspension is for the street.

I think the preorder owners who have had so much grief over all the "teething" problems should be offered the S-Tune at wholesale, by Nissan, to show goodwill toward us. After all, we have been their R&D control group for the last 7-8 months and have endured a hell of a lot of teething problems w/o a lot of feedback from Nissan. I think it would be fair, since what is less fatiguing on the track is the same over the road. The stock suspension is so harsh and bouncy, moderately long drives are very tiring for me, as they probably are for others in my age cohort.

Boomer--Sorry for the rant, you did a terrific job on your report.

 

I drove the car 130 miles to Buttonwillow, my longest trip so far with the S-Tune installed. I must say that I think the ride is actually less tireing overall even though it's slightly stiffer. How can that be? Because the bounce is eliminated, that's how. The porpoising just wears you out in 30 minutes or less.

 

EXACTLY!!! I bought the car for long trips, what a laugh. I can't drive the car farther than about 100 miles before I start aching all over because of the damn BOUNCE.

 

Damn! It looks like we're all in agreement over this suspension issue. I'm sure the guys over on the tire feathering treads would also chime in if they knew for a fact that the Nismo S-tuned would solve that little issue.

Anyway, I'm glad people haven't started labeling us "anti-Nissan" or "anti-Z" (yet) because of our desires for a better handling Z. I think we actually care more abut the Z's success because of the potential we see in the car. Nissan's got to get it right though before the American buying public moves on to the next PT Cruiser. Sports Cars must be just that, "sporty". And to name one Japanese company that truly understands this, it has to be "Mazda". I'm seriously thinking about building a spec-Miata because I'm just so amazed at the level of factory backing.

Final note: Nissan, if I wanted absolute safety and comfort, I would have bought a minivan with 32 airbags!

Fly

 

Now I'm really confused. I really never expected the Z to be a fantastic track car, considering it weights around 3200lbs and understeers like crazy.

The car seems to have been designed as a GT. But if you guys are saying that the stock suspension is too harch and bouncy on the street...then WTF is up with that??? Long highway miles are what a GT is all about!

Emre

 

I have a 6MT Touring model. My wife and I just completed a trip to Arizona from SanFrancisc. We drove it in two sections and did about 5 to 6 hours per day. I was very comfortable driving the whole way. We averaged 75 to 85 troughout the whole trip. I hit 125 just for fun just once to see if my wife noticed. She said it was very smooth. she would normally be white nuckeled. I have still just run the stock suspension and oEM tires. I have also done a track day at Sears point and run four autocross events in SCCA Solo II. Come on guys we seem to be getting carried away on ride comfort. Instead of guessing go on a long run. The car rides great. We had a great time and there was no driving dissapointments.

Total distance was 2300 miles. SF to Las Vagas(1 day) to Phoenix(for 3 Days) to Tucson(for the day) and return, Phoenix to LA and LA to SF.

The road is the big issue for comfort. Arizona roads are much smoother.

 

Did you prorder your Z? If you didn't, then you have no idea what we are talking about. There are about 8000 of us who have been dealing with this problem for months. The car's ride is harsh and bouncy and fatiguing to drive as a result. Ever seen a slammed Civic? That is the way the car bounces over smooth and rough roads. This not about ride comfort.

I suggest you read the damned thread from the begining before you pass judgement on something you have no business doing. I can't begin to express how angry I am over this shitty suspension from Nissan and so are a hell of a lot of other people. TRY to get the facts before you pop off with ignorant statements.

Boomer--this will be my last Nissan unless the warranty problems are solved and I owned a 1972 240Z , which rode MUCH better than the 350Z.