Buttonwillow Track day and finally full Nismo S-Tune review.
03-22-2003, 10:53 PM
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Buttonwillow Track day and finally full Nismo S-Tune review.
First let me say it was great meeting 2 more members from the my350.com board. Dkmura was great to talk to and get some insights from his many years of racing experience and it was also cool to meet Integrate and talk about our Z's as well. I am not yet going to post any pics from the event because there was an "incident" involving a Z and I think that in the interest of the owner's privacy it's up to him/her if he/she wants to post them and share what happened. There was one other Z there, but I really didn't get a chance to talk to the owner at all and I don't see his car on the scoreing sheets.
I am also going to take this opportunity to do a full and proper right up of the Nismo S-Tune Suspension kit. I have written about it's transforming the car in street applications, but is it track worthy??
I left my house at about 4:30 in the morning for the 2 hour drive to the track. Traffic was light and we made it there by 6:30 even with eating breakfast. We waited at the track gate for a few minutes before the track opened. I had caravaned up there with my friend in his Mazdaspeed Protege for his first track day. We watched as the myriad of S2K's, Vettes, and WRX's pulled up for the days events. I pulled into the track and grabbed a good pit spot (one close to the bathroom!) and prepaired the car for the days action. I had to hurry because I was instructing for my friend and one other student.
To prepare the Z for track use is pretty straighforward; remove the spare and all the tools, bleed the brakes (I already had put the Hawk HP+ front pads in at home, I only use these pads for track days and put the HPS's back in for street), set the cold tire pressure to 30lbs lt side and 31lbs rt side for this counter clockwise track day, re-torque the lug nuts, attach the timing transponder, and that's about it.
Usually Speedventures runs three groups, Red for the fast guys, white for the intermediate drivers, and yellow for the beginners. Thankfully, they split the Red group in two this time and added a blue group for fast drivers that weren't in the fastest cars. It's hard to get in a clear lap when you constantly have 500hp, race tired, Vipers constantly wanting to get by you. I ran in Blue and that worked very well. I got at least 4 or 5 clear laps in every session but the 2nd one where I didn't get a single clear lap because I got out late.
The first session was a learning experience. I have run this track many times, but never in this configuration and only once before in counter clockwise form. The configuration we ran was #14. It has a lot of character with a few elevation changes, a fairly long fast straight (saw 124mph on the digi speedo), a fast (90mph) banked corner, and some blind entries with decreasing radius. There is also only one wall to hit and there is plenty of runoff if you screw up (unfortunately, one person always finds that wall.) It's technical, but you can be awarded for attacking and a little bit of cojones helps as well. I had a best lap in the first session of a 2:09.6 and I was pretty satisfied with that as I was just learning the track and how to string the corners together.
Next I helped my students. I had one ride in the car with me and the other follow me at a moderate pace so they could learn the line. We then had them switch places. Pretty cool as always to help out the first timers and introduce them to a very addictive hobby.
Second session I got to the line late and just had to pass a lot of cars. I never got a clean lap and actually went slower than my 1st session at about a 2:10.1, kinda dissapointing. I made it a point to get to the line early on the third session and I was rewarded with a good string of clear laps. I got my time down to a 2:08 flat. The day was getting hotter and I was letting air out of the tires between every session. The Z seems to respond best if you can keep the tires at 40lbs and no more hot. Come in from your session and immediately bleed the tires. The track was getting hotter as well and it seemed to be losing a bit of grip.
The 4th session came up and the traffic had thinned a bit. Seemed like a few people left and we also lost a few cars to mechanicals (WRX's love to blow up). I got a good string of about 5 clear laps in a row although my best lap was blown by a RX7 that balked me on the last turn. I ultimately ended up with a 2:07.2, but I am confident that I could have run a mid/high 2:06 if that lap had been clear to the end. Oh well, that is what next time is for. Well how good is that lap? I was the fastest timed Z and I was also the fasted "T6" class car (the Z06 here is obviously in the wrong class, should be T4).
Times by Class
I raced that damn A4 all day long. Damn those race tires help. By my estimates, race tires are good for about 8 seconds (about 6% and maybe up to a 10%) on a track like this.
Here are the overall results by laptime as well to see where the Z compares overall:
Overall Lap Times
Not a bad showing for the Z. So what's in store for my car? Race rubber for sure, remove passenger seat (ran a full interior), race shell driver's seat, intake, exhaust, and the Dastek ECU. We must defend the Z honor from those pesky S2K guys (all actually really great guys in person.)
Part II Nismo S-Tune review.
I have written past posts praising the Nismo S-Tune suspension on the street. It seemed to ride nearly as well as the stock suspension although it did eliminate the porpoising. It had better roll control but not overly agressive and it seemed to have totally eliminated the understeer on the street. But there is only so much you can tell on the street.
The morning track sessions were to also learn the new handling of the car as well as the track. Immediately the car felt good. My 2 benchmark cars in terms of handling are the Porsche Boxster S (w sport suspension) and my previous MR2 Spyder with TRD Sportivo suspension package. I have a lot of track miles in both these cars. While the Boxster was the better all around car because of it's greater HP, the MR2 was still no doubt, the better handler. Even though it only had 138hp, I have simply never driven another street car that could read your mind like the Mr 2. The closest thing that comes to mind was a FF1600.
The Z immediately felt good on the track. I was actually concerned that there might be too much OVERSTEER with my 255/245 tire combo. I spent some laps that I had already blown just feeling what the car would do in different situations. Brake too late in the corner; no problem, just trail off and turn in. Need to slightly tighten your line; no problem, just slightly lift off the throttle. Lifting off the throttle made absolutely no difference on the stock suspension at all. The throttle pedal is now so much more importand in controlling the car as it should be. I could use the loud pedal with such precision to just control perfect slip angles for the back tires; AMAZING!! The flatter cornering attitude also helped me feel what the car was doing as too much lean just throws me off.
In a word, the Z felt PERFECT! It is now the best street car I have ever driven on a track. The car was literally as neutral as you could ever imagine it, but with no side effects (side effects are what Porsche drivers call character). The Z would do whatever I wanted to, lap after lap, with no fear of the car turning around and biting me. This inspires great confidence and allows you to push harder. It is also much less fatigueing. Driving the stock suspended, ill handling, understeer riddled Z was just as fatigueing as driving a scary snap oversteering car. A twitchy car might be fast over one lap, but it will always lose in the long run.
So, IMHO, you can keep your fancy adjustable set ups. People love to use these at the track as an excuse of why they aren't doing well ("My suspension isn't tuned yet.") This also has the advantage of being engineered as a package, with the ARB's, Springs, and shocks all being designed to work together. While you could get a better track suspension, I think the street ride would be too harsh. Even if you had adjustable shocks, it's the spring rates that dictate much of the ride and those are not readily adjustable.
I am not the type of person that defends a product just because I bought it. I have been very critical of the stock Z's suspension setup. And that is where Track Model owners should be a little upset. Nissan should have given us Track Model buyers this suspension to begin with. I am tired of lawyers designing cars and not engineers. If Honda can afford to deliver 5000 nervous S2K's into the U.S. publics hands every year without worrying about litigation, than Nissan can afford to also. 5000 a year is about what Nissan sells of the Track Model. I also had to put another $2000 into the car to get it to this point, but the other choice was getting rid of the car, which I would have done if this kit didn't cure the handling ills of the car or if the kit wasn't available. Shame on Nissan for designing such a great product only to punk out at the end.
I am also going to take this opportunity to do a full and proper right up of the Nismo S-Tune Suspension kit. I have written about it's transforming the car in street applications, but is it track worthy??
I left my house at about 4:30 in the morning for the 2 hour drive to the track. Traffic was light and we made it there by 6:30 even with eating breakfast. We waited at the track gate for a few minutes before the track opened. I had caravaned up there with my friend in his Mazdaspeed Protege for his first track day. We watched as the myriad of S2K's, Vettes, and WRX's pulled up for the days events. I pulled into the track and grabbed a good pit spot (one close to the bathroom!) and prepaired the car for the days action. I had to hurry because I was instructing for my friend and one other student.
To prepare the Z for track use is pretty straighforward; remove the spare and all the tools, bleed the brakes (I already had put the Hawk HP+ front pads in at home, I only use these pads for track days and put the HPS's back in for street), set the cold tire pressure to 30lbs lt side and 31lbs rt side for this counter clockwise track day, re-torque the lug nuts, attach the timing transponder, and that's about it.
Usually Speedventures runs three groups, Red for the fast guys, white for the intermediate drivers, and yellow for the beginners. Thankfully, they split the Red group in two this time and added a blue group for fast drivers that weren't in the fastest cars. It's hard to get in a clear lap when you constantly have 500hp, race tired, Vipers constantly wanting to get by you. I ran in Blue and that worked very well. I got at least 4 or 5 clear laps in every session but the 2nd one where I didn't get a single clear lap because I got out late.
The first session was a learning experience. I have run this track many times, but never in this configuration and only once before in counter clockwise form. The configuration we ran was #14. It has a lot of character with a few elevation changes, a fairly long fast straight (saw 124mph on the digi speedo), a fast (90mph) banked corner, and some blind entries with decreasing radius. There is also only one wall to hit and there is plenty of runoff if you screw up (unfortunately, one person always finds that wall.) It's technical, but you can be awarded for attacking and a little bit of cojones helps as well. I had a best lap in the first session of a 2:09.6 and I was pretty satisfied with that as I was just learning the track and how to string the corners together.
Next I helped my students. I had one ride in the car with me and the other follow me at a moderate pace so they could learn the line. We then had them switch places. Pretty cool as always to help out the first timers and introduce them to a very addictive hobby.
Second session I got to the line late and just had to pass a lot of cars. I never got a clean lap and actually went slower than my 1st session at about a 2:10.1, kinda dissapointing. I made it a point to get to the line early on the third session and I was rewarded with a good string of clear laps. I got my time down to a 2:08 flat. The day was getting hotter and I was letting air out of the tires between every session. The Z seems to respond best if you can keep the tires at 40lbs and no more hot. Come in from your session and immediately bleed the tires. The track was getting hotter as well and it seemed to be losing a bit of grip.
The 4th session came up and the traffic had thinned a bit. Seemed like a few people left and we also lost a few cars to mechanicals (WRX's love to blow up). I got a good string of about 5 clear laps in a row although my best lap was blown by a RX7 that balked me on the last turn. I ultimately ended up with a 2:07.2, but I am confident that I could have run a mid/high 2:06 if that lap had been clear to the end. Oh well, that is what next time is for. Well how good is that lap? I was the fastest timed Z and I was also the fasted "T6" class car (the Z06 here is obviously in the wrong class, should be T4).
Times by Class
I raced that damn A4 all day long. Damn those race tires help. By my estimates, race tires are good for about 8 seconds (about 6% and maybe up to a 10%) on a track like this.
Here are the overall results by laptime as well to see where the Z compares overall:
Overall Lap Times
Not a bad showing for the Z. So what's in store for my car? Race rubber for sure, remove passenger seat (ran a full interior), race shell driver's seat, intake, exhaust, and the Dastek ECU. We must defend the Z honor from those pesky S2K guys (all actually really great guys in person.)
Part II Nismo S-Tune review.
I have written past posts praising the Nismo S-Tune suspension on the street. It seemed to ride nearly as well as the stock suspension although it did eliminate the porpoising. It had better roll control but not overly agressive and it seemed to have totally eliminated the understeer on the street. But there is only so much you can tell on the street.
The morning track sessions were to also learn the new handling of the car as well as the track. Immediately the car felt good. My 2 benchmark cars in terms of handling are the Porsche Boxster S (w sport suspension) and my previous MR2 Spyder with TRD Sportivo suspension package. I have a lot of track miles in both these cars. While the Boxster was the better all around car because of it's greater HP, the MR2 was still no doubt, the better handler. Even though it only had 138hp, I have simply never driven another street car that could read your mind like the Mr 2. The closest thing that comes to mind was a FF1600.
The Z immediately felt good on the track. I was actually concerned that there might be too much OVERSTEER with my 255/245 tire combo. I spent some laps that I had already blown just feeling what the car would do in different situations. Brake too late in the corner; no problem, just trail off and turn in. Need to slightly tighten your line; no problem, just slightly lift off the throttle. Lifting off the throttle made absolutely no difference on the stock suspension at all. The throttle pedal is now so much more importand in controlling the car as it should be. I could use the loud pedal with such precision to just control perfect slip angles for the back tires; AMAZING!! The flatter cornering attitude also helped me feel what the car was doing as too much lean just throws me off.
In a word, the Z felt PERFECT! It is now the best street car I have ever driven on a track. The car was literally as neutral as you could ever imagine it, but with no side effects (side effects are what Porsche drivers call character). The Z would do whatever I wanted to, lap after lap, with no fear of the car turning around and biting me. This inspires great confidence and allows you to push harder. It is also much less fatigueing. Driving the stock suspended, ill handling, understeer riddled Z was just as fatigueing as driving a scary snap oversteering car. A twitchy car might be fast over one lap, but it will always lose in the long run.
So, IMHO, you can keep your fancy adjustable set ups. People love to use these at the track as an excuse of why they aren't doing well ("My suspension isn't tuned yet.") This also has the advantage of being engineered as a package, with the ARB's, Springs, and shocks all being designed to work together. While you could get a better track suspension, I think the street ride would be too harsh. Even if you had adjustable shocks, it's the spring rates that dictate much of the ride and those are not readily adjustable.
I am not the type of person that defends a product just because I bought it. I have been very critical of the stock Z's suspension setup. And that is where Track Model owners should be a little upset. Nissan should have given us Track Model buyers this suspension to begin with. I am tired of lawyers designing cars and not engineers. If Honda can afford to deliver 5000 nervous S2K's into the U.S. publics hands every year without worrying about litigation, than Nissan can afford to also. 5000 a year is about what Nissan sells of the Track Model. I also had to put another $2000 into the car to get it to this point, but the other choice was getting rid of the car, which I would have done if this kit didn't cure the handling ills of the car or if the kit wasn't available. Shame on Nissan for designing such a great product only to punk out at the end.
03-23-2003, 05:29 AM
#2
Steve,
Thanks for the report. Especially the NISMO susp. kit review. Sounds like Nissan should sell that as part of the Track version. I would have had to have it then. Right now there isn't enough difference to justify the Tracks higher price. Guess I'll have to start saving for the NISMO kit. Hope no one was hurt in the Z accident......Did Dkmura get to test the NISMO suspension at all? Steve do you have a better idea now why the stock suspension bounces/porpises so much? I noticed the NISMO kit's springs are progressive (so are the Eibachs). Is this part of the problem.
Thanks again!
Thanks for the report. Especially the NISMO susp. kit review. Sounds like Nissan should sell that as part of the Track version. I would have had to have it then. Right now there isn't enough difference to justify the Tracks higher price. Guess I'll have to start saving for the NISMO kit. Hope no one was hurt in the Z accident......Did Dkmura get to test the NISMO suspension at all? Steve do you have a better idea now why the stock suspension bounces/porpises so much? I noticed the NISMO kit's springs are progressive (so are the Eibachs). Is this part of the problem.
Thanks again!
Last edited by jmark; 03-23-2003 at 05:33 AM.
03-23-2003, 07:24 AM
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Wow Steve A+++
The description of your day at the track was extremely helpful. I'm not an experienced driver, but buying the 350 has inspired me to start reading about handling, suspension, and car dynamics in general. I'm still muddling but the total confusion is lifting somewhat. I know there are many 350 owners who are where I am on the learning curve. Your post certainly helped.
There has been a lot said about after market suspension upgrades but you speak with authority and clarity. Keep posting your impressions and suggestions...the longer the better. Sounds like Nismo-S is currently at/near the top of the short list of upgrades for those of us who use our cars as daily drivers but still want to do track days and autocross.
as an aside: I appreciate your sensitivity in not side-talking about other drivers…cheap laugh at others’ expense. This should be an unspoken standard for my350.com.
The description of your day at the track was extremely helpful. I'm not an experienced driver, but buying the 350 has inspired me to start reading about handling, suspension, and car dynamics in general. I'm still muddling but the total confusion is lifting somewhat. I know there are many 350 owners who are where I am on the learning curve. Your post certainly helped.
There has been a lot said about after market suspension upgrades but you speak with authority and clarity. Keep posting your impressions and suggestions...the longer the better. Sounds like Nismo-S is currently at/near the top of the short list of upgrades for those of us who use our cars as daily drivers but still want to do track days and autocross.
as an aside: I appreciate your sensitivity in not side-talking about other drivers…cheap laugh at others’ expense. This should be an unspoken standard for my350.com.
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03-24-2003, 08:52 AM
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Nice write up raceboy. I was planning on running with you guys that weekend till I saw that you guys were runnning race config#14 (taking out allot of fun turns)and I could get a free track day from NASA in Las Vegas on the same weekend. I did Buttonwillow with TCRA on the 1st and 2nd. We ran it CCW in race config#1. It was my first ever track day in the Z and I ran a 2:12 on a clear lap on stock tires. Not too bad I guess for my first time. Anyways, I really want to meet you other Z track guys because I'm pretty new to the track stuff and don't know sh*t when it comes to tire pressures, brake pads, suspension settings, etc. So far I've been to two track events I have only seen one other Z and it was nobody on this board.
By the way, what turn did ??? hit the wall, was it sunrise? And what is the next event you guys going to?
By the way, what turn did ??? hit the wall, was it sunrise? And what is the next event you guys going to?
03-25-2003, 05:22 PM
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Raceboy,
I'm now seriously considering buying the NISMO S-tuned suspension in the summer (assume a bonus materializes). Where's a good place to buy it and how much should I expect to pay?
I also have to ask about your wheel and tire choices and whether the dreaded feathering problem is gone. Did you say 255F, 245R?
Finally, can you share with us your alignment specs and any issues with the install?
Thanks!
Fly
DB Track
I'm now seriously considering buying the NISMO S-tuned suspension in the summer (assume a bonus materializes). Where's a good place to buy it and how much should I expect to pay?
I also have to ask about your wheel and tire choices and whether the dreaded feathering problem is gone. Did you say 255F, 245R?
Finally, can you share with us your alignment specs and any issues with the install?
Thanks!
Fly
DB Track
03-25-2003, 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Flyingscot
I also have to ask about your wheel and tire choices and whether the dreaded feathering problem is gone. Did you say 255F, 245R?
Fly
DB Track
I also have to ask about your wheel and tire choices and whether the dreaded feathering problem is gone. Did you say 255F, 245R?
Fly
DB Track
I believe it was 245F and 255R.
03-25-2003, 10:01 PM
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Yes, my tires are 245F and 255R.
The alignment is to the NISMO specs provided with the kit, don't have them handy here.
I paid about $2K delivered, but I am sure that if you wait a bit, it will be a lot less (I couldn't wait, and I am glad I did not!!) If you can't wait, go with japanparts.com.
Install was real easy. About 5 hours by myself working slow.
As far as feathering goes; I go through tires so damn fast I probably will never know if my car does it or not. I drive the **** out of it on road and track.
The alignment is to the NISMO specs provided with the kit, don't have them handy here.
I paid about $2K delivered, but I am sure that if you wait a bit, it will be a lot less (I couldn't wait, and I am glad I did not!!) If you can't wait, go with japanparts.com.
Install was real easy. About 5 hours by myself working slow.
As far as feathering goes; I go through tires so damn fast I probably will never know if my car does it or not. I drive the **** out of it on road and track.
03-27-2003, 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by raceboy
I drive the **** out of it on road and track.
I drive the **** out of it on road and track.
In regard to your comment, I need to ask your opinion. I don't have a lot of experience with road tires on track as I always use track tires like the Victoracers. My "real" track car is also FWD and 2390lbs. So here's my question:
I have 5000 miles on the car. I plan to drive from NC to Toronto, Canada, do 3 days of lapping Mosport. Drive to Quebec and do 3 more days of lapping at Mont Tremblant. Then the 6 of us are renting a small 1.1mile track for a couple of hours to do a little "racing" and then it's back home to NC. Will my stock tires make it or be worth a damn for the last two events?
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Fly
03-27-2003, 04:29 AM
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Le Circuit Mont Tremblant
Fly,
How the hell did you manage to get lapping time at Tremblant? I'm on the board of directors of the BMW Club of Quebec and partly responsible for organizing our driving schools. Ever since the new owner took over, it's been practically impossible to get track time unless you're with the Ferrari club or PCA. He has a "vision" of making the place more "upscale," so that means no club events except for the "high class" marques and a few vintage events, plus the two professional racing schools that he's made an agreement with. I've never even heard of open lapping days at the new track!
Emre
How the hell did you manage to get lapping time at Tremblant? I'm on the board of directors of the BMW Club of Quebec and partly responsible for organizing our driving schools. Ever since the new owner took over, it's been practically impossible to get track time unless you're with the Ferrari club or PCA. He has a "vision" of making the place more "upscale," so that means no club events except for the "high class" marques and a few vintage events, plus the two professional racing schools that he's made an agreement with. I've never even heard of open lapping days at the new track!
Emre
03-27-2003, 01:43 PM
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Re: Le Circuit Mont Tremblant
Originally posted by Kayaalp
Fly,
How the hell did you manage to get lapping time at Tremblant? I'm on the board of directors of the BMW Club of Quebec and partly responsible for organizing our driving schools. Ever since the new owner took over, it's been practically impossible to get track time unless you're with the Ferrari club or PCA. He has a "vision" of making the place more "upscale," so that means no club events except for the "high class" marques and a few vintage events, plus the two professional racing schools that he's made an agreement with. I've never even heard of open lapping days at the new track!
Emre
Fly,
How the hell did you manage to get lapping time at Tremblant? I'm on the board of directors of the BMW Club of Quebec and partly responsible for organizing our driving schools. Ever since the new owner took over, it's been practically impossible to get track time unless you're with the Ferrari club or PCA. He has a "vision" of making the place more "upscale," so that means no club events except for the "high class" marques and a few vintage events, plus the two professional racing schools that he's made an agreement with. I've never even heard of open lapping days at the new track!
Emre
The lapping days I spoke of are with PCA. I did not book the trip, but, I understand the day before the event is the lapping day (like BMW runs), normally just for instructors and invited guests. Being that my friends have more strings than the Rolling Stones, we're signed up for all three days. For the rest of the event, I was using the word "lapping" as a generic term. I typically don't run with an instructor, nor should I instruct being that I'm not familiar with the track. So for me, I'll spend the weekend "lapping" albeit within the confines of the school.
I'm sorry to hear that track management is restricting the little guy. That's too bad.
Fly
Last edited by Flyingscot; 03-27-2003 at 01:45 PM.
03-27-2003, 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Flyingscot
I know just how you feel!
In regard to your comment, I need to ask your opinion. I don't have a lot of experience with road tires on track as I always use track tires like the Victoracers. My "real" track car is also FWD and 2390lbs. So here's my question:
I have 5000 miles on the car. I plan to drive from NC to Toronto, Canada, do 3 days of lapping Mosport. Drive to Quebec and do 3 more days of lapping at Mont Tremblant. Then the 6 of us are renting a small 1.1mile track for a couple of hours to do a little "racing" and then it's back home to NC. Will my stock tires make it or be worth a damn for the last two events?
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Fly
I know just how you feel!
In regard to your comment, I need to ask your opinion. I don't have a lot of experience with road tires on track as I always use track tires like the Victoracers. My "real" track car is also FWD and 2390lbs. So here's my question:
I have 5000 miles on the car. I plan to drive from NC to Toronto, Canada, do 3 days of lapping Mosport. Drive to Quebec and do 3 more days of lapping at Mont Tremblant. Then the 6 of us are renting a small 1.1mile track for a couple of hours to do a little "racing" and then it's back home to NC. Will my stock tires make it or be worth a damn for the last two events?
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Fly
03-27-2003, 02:23 PM
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Tremblant
I'm sorry to hear that track management is restricting the little guy. That's too bad.
The real problem seems to be that BMW's are not rich enough for the new owner. He's also keeping out the Quattro, SAAB, and Lotus clubs. Only the PCA and Ferrari clubs have easy access. It really sucks for us because Tremblant is our home track! It's only an hour and a half from downtown Montreal.
If you've never been to the track, let me give you some free advice
. Turn 6 is a very high speed left hander that flows into a very tricky blind apex right. If there is even a tiny, tiny bit of rain, turns 6 and 7 are absolutely treacherous. They are flat as a pancake, so water accumulates on the surface in a thin sheet that's practically impossible to see...[Turn 6] Most guys are at the top of 4th gear when they hit the apex of 6. So when you hit that invisible standing water, you're spinning off into the tire wall before you even know what hit you.
[Turn 7] It's surprisingly easy to early apex this one. You're in 5th when you get to the braking zone, so if it's wet and you hit the apex early, you're understeering right off the track. Unfortunately, the track out point drops off steeply into a ravine! If you screw this turn up, you'll be pretty screwed yourself
The rest of the course is also pretty tricky and can be dangerous (esp. turns 1 and 2) but it's 6 and 7 that tend to catch people out. Everyone KNOWS turns 1 and 2 are dangerous 'cause your butt is clenched tight as a vice grips. But 6 and 7 look so innocuous...
Have fun!
Emre
03-27-2003, 02:40 PM
#19
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Don't you love it when course designers do evil things to trip you up. Or maybe they are just unaware of the dangers in too little run off room and natural hazards.
At least the newer courses being built today are realizing that more and more people are taking their nice road cars to a driving school like BMW's (which BTW, run terrific schools) and shouldn't be put in harms way for the hell of it. There's really no excuse for failing to provide adequate run-off room. Tire barriers are certainly no substitute as they can all to easily put you in the hospital. I've seen it happen.
Anyway, thanks for the tips. I have printed your comments and will be sharing them with my friends, most of whom drive M3s.
Regards
Fly
PS. I will probably chicken out and take my old trusted track warrior. At least I won't have to worry about using duct tape
At least the newer courses being built today are realizing that more and more people are taking their nice road cars to a driving school like BMW's (which BTW, run terrific schools) and shouldn't be put in harms way for the hell of it. There's really no excuse for failing to provide adequate run-off room. Tire barriers are certainly no substitute as they can all to easily put you in the hospital. I've seen it happen.
Anyway, thanks for the tips. I have printed your comments and will be sharing them with my friends, most of whom drive M3s.
Regards
Fly
PS. I will probably chicken out and take my old trusted track warrior. At least I won't have to worry about using duct tape
03-27-2003, 04:31 PM
#20
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Originally posted by raceboy
My guess is that your tires won't make it, not even close.
My guess is that your tires won't make it, not even close.
Fly
BTW, just how good is the NISMO suspension on the track compared to the stock setup, 25%, 50%, 100%? Can you give it to me straight? I'm sure others would like to hear you describe it again. Use words like turn-in, rotation, lift-throttle oversteer, trail-braking, balance under braking, hi-speed lift, understeer, 4-wheel drift and body roll
Fly