Damn, Boomer. You must have had a lot of caffeine today.

 

After putting on a bit under 4K for a trip that took me through CO, NM, AZ and CA, I have to wade into this discussion. Agree with everything Raceboy has to say (I'll also add my kudos for his review) about the stock suspension setup.

I want to add some detail to the Buttonwillow day as my stock track model was some two and a half seconds slower than Raceboy's time. I did have S03's up front as the previous Colorado track days simply wore out the front OEM tires (rears were still the RE040s with 5K on them). Buttonwillow was quite entertaining, with a good mix of medium speed and interconnected turns. But it did highlight what the S-tune can do for your Z as mine was a battle for most of the day! Get the turn-in wrong in the understeering track model and you were fighting the car for the next three turns trying to recover the line! Worse than that, I found that being as smooth as possible and conserving momentum did not help my times much. I was better off being a bit more aggressive (but remaining tidy with the line) and riding the curbs.

My top speed was not off Raceboy's best, so I can't blame the engine for letting me down. I even tried late braking AFTER the bump at the end of the back straight and found myself off in the tulies (good advice: ride it off in a straight line if possible) for my efforts. In summary, I had a great time learning this track and look forward to taking my Z back AFTER I get a Nismo S-tune (or another brand, I'm going to check my options) kit installed.

Well driven (and written) Raceboy! Great meeting you!

 

dkmura,

How are your rear tires now? Does that make two full weekend events? Could you make it a third?

Just trying to work out the logistics for my Canada trip. Thanks!

BTW, great write-up too. 2 1/2 seconds is a lifetime.

Fly

 

Sorry to dissapoint you but I preordered Feb 18, 2002. Recieved my car in September.I'm sorry to say I just don't think it's that bad. Sorry to hear you had such a tough time with your car.

All I was adding was that I had a positive experience on a long trip. Have you tried a long trip?

I agree on some improvements like higher damped shocks to improve the high speed hadeling over uneven surfaces, but this is sure a good start

Sn 000065

6500 miles and still loving this car.

 

C Ray Z you must have some very smooooth roads. For the rest of us at least we know the bounce can be fixed!!!!! Its my only complaint so far. I haven't had the tire feathering yet.....OK Nissan where's my coupon for my S-Tune suspension!!!!!!

 

Hi Ray:
I've not had difficulty with pronounced bounce except on one stretch of the 24 freeway where every car I've ridden/driven has bounced along. This includes a 911, S2000, RX7, 510, and my Chevy truck.


Have been to Tahoe a couple of times (250-300 miles each way) and have felt very positive about ride characteristics on the freeway.

From prevous threads on this topic I came away thinking that some 350s have a specific & serious problem which contributes to bounce, and some 350s don't seem to have that problem to the same degree. Otherwise I can't understand why people describe spilling coffee, rattling their teeth, etc. I don't think I could miss that degree of bounce.

I'm still in line for the S-tune coupons however, and I agree that Nissan should have added the S-tune to the track. I paid 34K for my track...would have paid a little more for a 'track worthy' better suspension.

 

Don't get me wrong. I want to run track days so I am probably going to the s-tune suspension. I have a conflict though because I also want to autocross in stock class. This would unfortunatly not be possible. I might have to got to street prepared.

To try to stay stock I was thinking of first trying the Koni shocks that are adjustable to try and tune out the bounce. I have written Koni trying to get an idea when they will have shocks available.

 

I heard Koni was looking at summer to early fall for release. I know there is a local guy that is a pretty good autocrosser that is working with them on some custom shocks. I think he had them on his car at the 3/23 event here in Nashville from what I've heard. Hopefully working with him will help the engineering process along.

I'd say what he has aren't really what they'll be selling, though. The street shocks will probably be less agressive (but I'm just guessing from what I've heard).

 

I apologize, C Ray. I'm really second guessing my purchase of this car and I'm really pissed about the OE suspension. I have no business taking it out on you or anyone other than Nissan.

No, I haven't tried a long trip which would load the car with enough ballast to mask the wimpy shocks' performance in most cases. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am stuck at home with 2700 miles on a car I took delivery of on 9'6/02. As a consequence, my traveling has been in and around the 18 wheeler capital of the world at the junction of I35 and I40 where several trucking companies have their headquarters. The pavement in some areas wouldn't pass any sort of inspection or grading system anyone might have for highway smoothness.

These roads bring out any flaw in any car's suspension and my 295lbs sure ain't helping the ride. Crashing from expansion joint to expansion joint is a normal drive around here, but lots of other sports cars handle them OK, but not the Z's, IMO. Hearing about the S-Tune's greatly improved ride under all circumstances that we preorders have to pay extra for, when it should have been standard or at least an option for us sent me into outer space.

ANGER isn't descriptive enough for what I was feeling and you,C Ray, were an innocent bystander to my explosion, my bad, my apology again.

No caffeine, Fly. Roid rage is more like it. I am really struggling with waiting for a FIX from Nissan, I'm already grey, my hair could be white when and if they deliver. Buying a coilover system, S-Tune, HKS, etc; or buying Eibach now, the Konis when they come out. The rub is lowering the suspension. I have never had a car with a lowered suspension and the camber change with the feathering may be a bad move and accelerate tire wear on my brand new Michelins.

I am in a real quandry here and would welcome any and all suggestions the folks on this thread might offer. Please help, but don't get upset if I don't use your suggestion, I have to do what fits my situation. I may just throw up my arms and sell the car, I'm real close and money is a factor now. It wasn't before, but it is now. Thanks for any help you can give me.

Boomer--twisting in the wind.

 

C Ray, Gordon Benson is the guy I've been in contact by e-mail, he told me a few days ago, summer or early fall, but, he told somebody else summer a few days after he told me. That could be 5-6 months if they have a snag in their production. If they were available, I would have bought them now, but we have to wait. Gordon told me the bounce is GONE with their prototypes that are close to finalization.

 

Great meeting you once again David. We'll chalk up 1.5sec to the S-Tune, but I'll reserve the other second for me!!

I do want to comment though on aggressive driving in the Z. My MR2 Spyder had to be driven like a formula car, fingers and toes, heal and toeing, always conserving momentum. The Z is the opposite, as a matter of fact I have given up trying to heal/toe smoothly in the car all together. You drive the Z more like a Trans Am car; brake as deep as possible, slam down into the next gear with no heal/toe and break the rear tires loose, turn in under trail brakeing, on the power. It just responds very well to aggressiveness and it's loads of fun.

 

I must be the only one that doesn't notice the bounce. And I drove mine 800 miles home from Evansville, IN the day I bought it -- it rides better than my 300, IMO.

I've ridden in Droidekaus' car and didn't notice any bounce. My *** must not be very sensitive. *shrug*

Michael.

 

Hmmm, I came right through Evansville when I bought the car back in December in St Louis on my way home to Nashville. The interstates up there were horrible for the bounce, so much so I questioned my decision of the Z over the G35C.

The interstates in MO, IL, IN, and KY were not good, all concrete and all rough. When I finally hit TN, I started smiling again, because the roads were much smoother. Even the one concrete interstate we have here in Nashville is relatively smooth compared to those up there in the midwest.

I guess it is all interpretation, but I thought my car bounced a lot up there. So much so, I had to leave the lid on my near full 20 oz drink to keep it from sloshing out.

 

All I know is that I had a terrible case of "bounce" (as we like to call it) on my track car. It took me a few weeks to work it out since I was fairly new to this suspension tuning thing. Anyway, I was running 350lb springs up front and had only set my adjustable shocks to position 1 of 4. At the time I was more concerned about eliminating understeer at the track. Anyway, one day I decided to change the front setting to 2.

Bingo! Ride quality was 100% better. Bounce was 90% gone. It made a believe out of me that you really need to listen more carefully to what the car is telling you, especially if you're going to make it as a racer.

Like many on this board, I am 99.256% sure the issue is with the dampers. If all Nissan is doing is reducing the spring rate, then I say SCREW that.

Do you guys remember this video?

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...0TV%20Spot.ram

Does that look like a sports car suspension to you?

Not me.

Fly

 

What are you using for adjustable shocks? I want to buy adjustable shocks that will work with the present spring to stay in stock class.

I also notice that the car is quicker in autocrossing if you break as late as possible. It brings aroud the rear and limits the understeer.

We just need to keep sharing our experiences to improve the handeling for track and autocross.

Keep it comming I am all ears and appreciate all the experience you guys have. As an old guy (54) I appreciate experience.

 

The Konis and Bilstein products are usually excellent. The struts on my track car are custom and therefore will not help you with making your Z choice. The Konis may well be the way to go if you plan to keep the stock springs.

Fly

 

Hey, Fly. I just made up my mind 5 minutes before reading your post. Konis and stock springs for me.

 

Rear tires remain serviceable. I'd say they are about half to 2/3 tread. But keep in mind, they have seen no less than five track days BEFORE I undertook this trip! So, I'd say that if you don't mind some heat cycled and hard tires, the OEM rear tires shouldn't be too much of an obstacle for your trip.

 

less aggressive??

I had Konis on my civic, they were so stiff, I had to have them on the SOFTEST position, when I went 1/2 stiff it was a race car, when I went full stiff, it was a GO-KART, they are VERY adjustable.

btw, I found this from another thread, interesting info, contradicts what many of us have been saying

"Just got back from Road Atlanta after watching the T2 Z run Sunday afternoon. I'd like to thank TC & Hal for being very gracious host to me & my son. Hal ran the car for the first time this weekend. He said he had never driven an easier to drive car than the Z. He qual. 3rd & finished 3rd in T2 behind to Camaros and ahead of one Supra. He & TC are very high on the cars potential. They plan some testing with the new Konis (run for the first time this weekend). TC thinks the bounce problem is in the stock shocks being too stiff. T2 requires them to run the stock springs. TC's Z is running 17" SSR's and the car is a Track model. Looks like TC will eventually be running two Z's in T2 by the Runoffs. They will run next at Button Willow in I believe April."

 

Excellent, thanks! Maybe I'll buy two sets of fronts instead.
SO3 front and R040s rear. That should help the "push" a little.