JamRWS6

Well i can tell you one thing....i've read many a post on LS1.com and have been a member there a long time. I have checked all the signs for the LS6 block (not motor) and my car has the LS1 block. It however is an 02 which means it has the LS6 intake and upgraded manifolds (which all 01-02 cars have).

Your *friend* however is mistaken....the very late 02s received the LS6 block NOT by mistake....that is not somthing that can be mistaken as physically they look quite different. A car with the LS6 block makes no more HP than a car with the traditional LS1 block as everything in the rotating assembly etc. is the same....hence the case with my car.

NO F-bodies came with a LS6 motor...the LS6 uses higher flowing heads with smaller combustion chambers as well as "D" shaped exhaust ports opposed to "oval" shaped LS1 ports. Some late 02s did get the block but have LS1 heads and a LS1 Cam making them a LS1 not a LS6.

The problem with the vette theory you have is that through a solid rear axle F-bodies are putting down more RWHP to the ground than many of the vettes are.

In a race between a M6 f-body and a A4 vette i'd put my money on the f-body.

I have seen a FRC Vette from 1999 run 12.66 so i believe its the fact that the vette guys aren't willing to run their cars to achive a time as fast as the car is capable of. Afterall it is all about drivers and I personally feel I can drive pretty well. I just don't see the vette guys out running their cars like they could be run.

THere is some variance in the power output of engines so basically its going to come down to how strong of a LS1 you have. I think i got a pretty good one

PS- My times were all run on the stock Eagle F1s and 2.149 is the best 60 ft. i have ever cut...not great at all. I feel with some drag radials it could click off a 12.6x pass which is absolutely amazing..IMO
While at the track one night....my car was actually cutting faster times and putting up higher trap speeds than a new 03 cobra...whether it was driver or not i don't know....i just know that he was running slower.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

ok, well thank you for clairifying that for me. Maybe there's just freaks and duds as far as LS1s go. I think this is the case with a lot of cars. A great example of this is the fact that you were running faster than a car that has a lot more whp than you and nearly the same weight.

I think what it comes down to is that ANYTHING can happen in the real world and that hp numbers and power to weight ratios etc. just don't tell the whole story.

BTW - 2.14 is the EXACT same "best 60 foot" that I ran with my maxima...I just thought that was interesting. Sounds like you're getting a lot of spin out of the hole.

JamRWS6

Actually i get my best 60fts by almost bogging the motor and letting it pull itself out of the hole....I would say that if i was spinning alot out of the hole that the trap speed would definitely be an inaccurate representation of the HP its putting out ... but the way i launch it it just pulls from about 3000 rpm by the time the clutch is out....and then once in first gear it is basically on the edge of traction as i can usually hear a chirping from the tires.

I definitely don't claim to be the best person at launching this car as 2.1x 60s are only average in this car...A4 LS1s usually eat me up out of the hole but I have the power to run them down fortunately.

RD99SS

I never mentioned anything about me being stock...Lid, Cat-Back, STS and DR's is all I have...as far as weight is my car without me in it and 1/4 tank of gas is 3317 lbs according to the scales at the track...I have not done any weight reduction thus far. Bone stock with 1400 mile on the OD I was trapping around 106...so with minimal mods, more miles, and power shifting has netted me +3mph

JP00SS

I swear these LS1's you guys are racing have never raced in their life. I am not saying that the LS1 is so much faster than the Z, but I have raced CLS from this board many times and my car pulls on him probably 2 cars to 140. When we first start to race I pull him pretty quick and then my pull slows before we stop. I have some mods, but I am pretty much stock. Lid and Cat-Back Exhaust on a LS1 is not very modded. I just don't see how a Z is pulling 3 to 4 cars to 135 on a LS1 unless the LS1 driver is letting off.
No flames because CLS handed me my *** on the dragon, and in a straight line his car is by no means slow.

zxsaint

I'm confused too!

We started about 85-90mph and I waited to hear him gun it before I did. I pulled on him very slowly until he was behind me at 120. After that, truely its quite possible he let off around 125 or 130 -- for when I shut down at 135, he was way behind.

The fact of the matter was that I'd still be confused if we were dead even. I was expecting him to pull on me like crazy like I hear from all the LS1 guys on here.

I wonder if he's on here or at LS1.com, anyone know a asian guy with a blue SS on some deep lip wheels?

ChromeBullit

I had a '98 z28 SS Camaro before I got my Z350. I have to agree with some of the Camaro boys, the z28 is very underrated when it comes to horsepower. I was toad that GM did this so business would not be taken away from the Corvette. My Camaro dyno'd at 307 rwhp with just an intake, lots of hp. Great Numbers! But at the track I only ran 13.5 @105mph. The rearend of this car suck *****! I was able to smoke 'em before my first run, my second and third no wheel spin! I won't generalize Camaros but my old Camaro was a POS, but great HP numbers. My '95 Camaro Z28 was a lot better.

I do think that my Z350 has better high speed performance than the Camaro. Maybe it's just the handling, there's no comparison when it comes to handling, the Z350 will pull G's while the camaro will need to spend G's to be comparable. I didn't know there were so many LS1 boys on this board???? Stock for stock and the driver being equal the Z28 will win more times than not, in a straight line race.

BriGuy,
What's up, Steve and I might be going to the track this weekend (4/26). I ran a 14.2 @ 98.xx mph last weekend. I only got 2 runs and my best run was my first run ever in this car. My second run I hit the rev limiter but still ran a 14.3 @ 98.xxmph. Not bad for my first 2 runs. I also picked up a '01 Gixxy One, so we should go riding one of these days. Let me know if you can come this weekend.

Chewy.

DamianZ

Sounds like he was driving while you were racing.

Damian 350z SS 5Sp Auto
Student
Tx

zxsaint

Is that why he followed me off the freeway and gave me thumbs up and said "good run"?

Read the first post again, I think you may have skipped it.

ELESWON

My thoughts exactly. If you totalled up all the cars ive "lost" to in the fashion of the race in this post the list is long. Car comes blasting up holds ground for a second then takes off. Fun race bro. Anywho. Oh and to add one more thing to "LS6 in an f-body" talk, there were actually 10% of 01's and 25% of 02s that came with that block. Those are the official GM numbers. Every LSx motor (standard vette is LS1/ Zo6 of course is LS6) for 03 and later now has the "LS6" block. The diffrence between those two is the breathing ports machined into the block/ between the cylinders. The LS1 has 1 larger port between the two cetermost cylinders, where as the LS6 has smaller ports between all of them. Apparently helps oil flow and improves the longevity of the motors. All this technology was garnered from the revered C5R block of Le Mans fame. Also, the blocks have always come from two diffrent plants, and the plant that makes the LS6 block used a diffrent grade of aluminum that is considered better in some repects. To see if your LS1 block is an LS6, the only true way to tell is to get look at the cast numbers that are on the backside of the motor (against the firewall) just below the heads. (Read: you need pretty much need to take the heads off)

One last thing on all these LS1 races.....im dumbfounded at the results that come across on this board on a regular basis. If any Z in the Charlotte area wants to race and film it and post it up just so everyone can see what really happenes when an LS1 and a 350Z race, we can do that.

Heres some hard fast numbers that are in what i call euro-car speak that you guys seem to like....hp/weight ratio. Here we go....we'll use three pertinent cars here; a 350Z, a Z06 and a common every day LS1 F body. Power to weight ratios: Z06 3110 lbs 365 rwhp=8.52 / 350Z 3200 lbs 240 rwhp (generous from what ive seen) = 13.33 / LS1 F body 3400 lbs 310 rwhp=10.96. Now do the numbers. Thats right friends and neighbors, you guys claiming that a 350Z is a good run for an LS1 Fbody is just as assanine and off the wall as me (an LS1 owner) claming that i am a good run for a well driven Z06. There isnt a BS flag big enough for either of those statements. The acutal diffrences (to save the math) are Fbody vs. Z06 2.44 diffrence in favor of the Vette, 350Z vs. Fbody its 2.37, in favor of the Fbody. Now its all out in easy to read black and white. And the 1/ 4 mi numbers even jive pretty well....about a second diffrence for all cars in question....low 12's Z06, low 13's Fbody, low 14's 350Z. Any more questions.....find me a race in Charlotte.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

All I can say is that numbers don't tell the whole story. There are so many other variables. An LS1 "should" be faster than a Z...but it just isn't always the case plain and simple.

BTW- I'm pretty sure both the LS1 F-bodies that I've run were autos....and both were on the highway where gearing and even drag coef. can win a race for a car with less power, and that's exactly what happened in my situations.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Chewy,

I'm going to visit the girlfriend in Indy Friday to Saturday, but if you guys go Sunday and I don't have to work, I should be able to go. I'm baffled as to why your trap speeds are so low. Was there a headwind at Byron last weekend or something??

Brian

CLS

iTrader: (1)

As much I as hate to admit it, he beats me everytime. His car just has much power. Maybe one of these days if I can get some mods on mine. Till then we will just each stick to what we are good at.

ELESWON

Very true. Gearing, tuning, mods, and driver skill to name a few. And its not impossible for an LS1 to loose to a 350Z with the right set of cirucumstances. (Ive seen Vipers and Z06s run 14-15 sec 1/4 mi times, trust me i know how bad drivers can make a car look). But i just want everyone to understand is that under normal conditions, with like drivers, there is no comparison between the 350Z and the LS1 in a strait line. No comparison and no competition. I used those power to weight comparisons to try and illustrate that fact. Anywho, i just have to assume you fellas see what im getting at.

PS This whole "it must have been an auto" argument is getting old and only serves to show your lack of knowledge of your competition. Auto LS1s typically trap somewhat lower than 6 spd cars (stock for stock) but the et is almost always just the same if not a tick faster.

CLS

iTrader: (1)

Most of the 350 guys are saying that they dont know what happened and that it must have been a bad driver. They are not saying that they can beat them all day everyday. We all know that on the street it is a drivers race, and that is what these guys are posting, not "under normal conditions". That doesnt apply on the street. The "must have been an auto" has not just been used by 350 guys, but also some LS1's. I have respect for both cars, but on the street it just depends on who is behind the wheel.

zxsaint

Thank you. Whats with these guys getting so defensive and arrogant over an experience I posted? I assume this is where the generalizations and stereotypes of the domestic drivers get created from. Most of the domestic guys I know don't act this **** and they don't like what it does to their reputations when others do.

With over 300+ whp, I would HOPE an LS1 would take a 240whrp 350Z at the track with equal drivers -- and they do. These cars are designed with straight line performance in mind. The Z was designed with road tracks in mind. Stock for stock I'm convinced a 350Z would embarass any LS1 on a track or autocross. Sure, a LS1 can be modified to handle, and a Z can be modified to drag. I prefer handling, a fresh design, and decent power over just pure straight line performance. Thats why I got a 350Z. If I wanted to build a powerful mean sounding car that dominates the drag strip, i'd go get myself a LS1 for 10k + another 10k in mods and save myself 15-20k.

Where are we going with this? Will it ever end?

Bad drivers? Sure -- any inexperienced 16-yr old kid can pick a 1998 up for about 10k and claim to know what he's doing. Doesn't represent the car well, thats OK, we know what the LS1 can do. When the Z is a few years old, a lot more kids will be driving it too.

Point is, we chat about races, wins and losses and we can debate the reasoning behind the win/loss down to which way the wind was blowing -- thats the fun of it. Thats why I started the thread.

The pissing contests get old tho.

A 350Z won this time, the other guy wanted to race, he lost, he accepted it. Why it happened? Who cares, the conditions could have gone either way. If your opinion is that I'm out of my mind and i'm stupid and I made up the whole story -- so be it, I hope it helps you sleep at night.

max2000jp

You should have said F-bodies....They do offer the LS1 in the C5 ya know

DamianZ

Yes. Most drivers who own American Muscle cars generally have that oversimplified conception of thinking they're macho with a 25-50 thousand dollar engine.

Yeah, I think that handling and design was the main focus on the 350z. Such innovative ideas from the Japanese engineers make the domestic automotive industry inferior. Looks like the Japanese are the thinkers while the American's are the followers.

Damian 2003 350z
SS 5 sp Auto
Student

CrazyBosnian

Any??, what are u smoking, a stock one maybe, but a modded one will own you! They handle quite well when you change some parts out, believe me ..And like mentioned above, a C5 is an LS1 and will own you in the twisties

S8ER95Z

Blah.. hows this..Mines Smaller.

Moving right along.. when the hell is this rain gonna stop?