Orange 350Z vs. VR-4
05-10-2003, 04:26 PM
#41
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Of course awd cars have better launches than fwd and rwd cars. And of course an awd vr4 will take a stock Z off the line. But you realize when i said "crappy top end" that it meant basically......it has a crappy top end. So the Z will eventually "catch up" for the loss on the line. The Z will probably pass the vr4 at around 80-100 mph. Winning who gets off the line first doesn't ALWAYS mean that the car will win. AWD will slow the vr4 at high speeds, and also it's 3900 lb chassy.
05-10-2003, 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by VQRACING
Of course awd cars have better launches than fwd and rwd cars. And of course an awd vr4 will take a stock Z off the line. But you realize when i said "crappy top end" that it meant basically......it has a crappy top end. So the Z will eventually "catch up" for the loss on the line. The Z will probably pass the vr4 at around 80-100 mph. Winning who gets off the line first doesn't ALWAYS mean that the car will win. AWD will slow the vr4 at high speeds, and also it's 3900 lb chassy.
Of course awd cars have better launches than fwd and rwd cars. And of course an awd vr4 will take a stock Z off the line. But you realize when i said "crappy top end" that it meant basically......it has a crappy top end. So the Z will eventually "catch up" for the loss on the line. The Z will probably pass the vr4 at around 80-100 mph. Winning who gets off the line first doesn't ALWAYS mean that the car will win. AWD will slow the vr4 at high speeds, and also it's 3900 lb chassy.
VR4s will run low to mid 13s....and last time i checked the 1/4 mile trap speeds were OVER 100 mph....stock for stock a Z isn't going to catch a VR4 in a 1/4 mile....not even close.
And from a roll....a simple boost controller and the Z is toast.
05-10-2003, 10:55 PM
#43
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Man... some of you are dense. Weight is practically worthless from a roll comparing these two cars. The weight difference wouldn't matter unless it was really drastic... the other car would have to be light... I'm talking 1993+ RX-7 light (1000lbs difference).
Ohhh yea... 'Lets compare the lightest 350z to the heaviest VR-4 and add 100lbs!'
My VR-4 weighs 3700 lbs., 350z's weigh around 3250lbs., correct?
Torque also matters... 275 @ 4800RPM vs. 315 @ 2500RPM.
Trap speeds count from a roll.
A VR-4 with a competent driver will knock off 100MPH+ traps stock.
350z? 99MPH or so?
Not that big a difference. Matter of fact, the Z should get inched on stock vs. stock from a roll.
Ohhh yea... 'Lets compare the lightest 350z to the heaviest VR-4 and add 100lbs!'
My VR-4 weighs 3700 lbs., 350z's weigh around 3250lbs., correct?
Torque also matters... 275 @ 4800RPM vs. 315 @ 2500RPM.
Trap speeds count from a roll.
A VR-4 with a competent driver will knock off 100MPH+ traps stock.
350z? 99MPH or so?
Not that big a difference. Matter of fact, the Z should get inched on stock vs. stock from a roll.
Last edited by pearl demon; 05-10-2003 at 11:02 PM.
05-10-2003, 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by pearl demon
Man... some of you are dense. Weight is practically worthless from a roll comparing these two cars. The weight difference wouldn't matter unless it was really drastic... the other car would have to be light... I'm talking 1993+ RX-7 light (1000lbs).
Ohhh yea... 'Lets compare the lightest 350z to the heaviest VR-4 and add 100lbs!'
My VR-4 weighs 3700 lbs. 350z's weigh around 3250lbs., correct?
Trap speeds count from a roll.
A VR-4 with a competent driver will knock off 100MPH+ traps stock.
350z? 99MPH or so?
Not that big a difference. Matter of fact, the Z should get inched on stock from a roll.
Man... some of you are dense. Weight is practically worthless from a roll comparing these two cars. The weight difference wouldn't matter unless it was really drastic... the other car would have to be light... I'm talking 1993+ RX-7 light (1000lbs).
Ohhh yea... 'Lets compare the lightest 350z to the heaviest VR-4 and add 100lbs!'
My VR-4 weighs 3700 lbs. 350z's weigh around 3250lbs., correct?
Trap speeds count from a roll.
A VR-4 with a competent driver will knock off 100MPH+ traps stock.
350z? 99MPH or so?
Not that big a difference. Matter of fact, the Z should get inched on stock from a roll.
05-10-2003, 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by pearl demon
Okay... so what do 350z's trap at 1/8?
Okay... so what do 350z's trap at 1/8?
05-11-2003, 08:30 AM
#48
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This is to ws6 and to pearl demon. No, No, and No.
lol@"vr4s running low to mid13s". In the words of Pearl demon: " what are you smoking"?!!! Seriously folks. Now this kid, ws6, is telling me that stock vr4s run low 13s. Jesus Christ folks. We went from debating mid to high 13s-low 14s. And now this? And no, Vr4s do not weigh "3700" lbs. I own an SL model. And i happen to know that turbo models weigh more than that. My Sl model weighs 3850 lbs w/o driver. The vr4 is at least heavier than that. And the Z does not weigh 3250. They weigh 3190-3200 flat. Different Features in the Z such as auto or manual tranny influence weight, and other gadgets. A stock vr4 has NEVER EVER RUN A LOW 13S. Get it? Got it. And ws6? We're talking about a stock vr4, no "boost controller" involved. And why are you saying that weight does not make a difference? Why are most race cars made out of carbon fiber then? Why are the 8-9 import sec cars barely "heavier than a feather", expression. Ws6, i'm pretty sure that you don't care about weight because you have a huge block to make up for the power lost in weight. A stock v6 tt that weighs around 3900 lbs is not going to run low 13s. Let alone mid 13s. around 13.8-14.0 is the stock vr4 run.
Kids..There are many factors that contribute to how well a car runs in the 1/4. And one of the most important besides whp is traction and weight. Definitely Weight. Pearl Demon, when you raced that Z, did you take out your spare tire? Would have improved some peformance..
lol@"vr4s running low to mid13s". In the words of Pearl demon: " what are you smoking"?!!! Seriously folks. Now this kid, ws6, is telling me that stock vr4s run low 13s. Jesus Christ folks. We went from debating mid to high 13s-low 14s. And now this? And no, Vr4s do not weigh "3700" lbs. I own an SL model. And i happen to know that turbo models weigh more than that. My Sl model weighs 3850 lbs w/o driver. The vr4 is at least heavier than that. And the Z does not weigh 3250. They weigh 3190-3200 flat. Different Features in the Z such as auto or manual tranny influence weight, and other gadgets. A stock vr4 has NEVER EVER RUN A LOW 13S. Get it? Got it. And ws6? We're talking about a stock vr4, no "boost controller" involved. And why are you saying that weight does not make a difference? Why are most race cars made out of carbon fiber then? Why are the 8-9 import sec cars barely "heavier than a feather", expression. Ws6, i'm pretty sure that you don't care about weight because you have a huge block to make up for the power lost in weight. A stock v6 tt that weighs around 3900 lbs is not going to run low 13s. Let alone mid 13s. around 13.8-14.0 is the stock vr4 run.
Kids..There are many factors that contribute to how well a car runs in the 1/4. And one of the most important besides whp is traction and weight. Definitely Weight. Pearl Demon, when you raced that Z, did you take out your spare tire? Would have improved some peformance..
05-11-2003, 08:49 AM
#49
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Originally posted by pearl demon
Stock VR-4's trap around ~80MPH in the 1/8th and ~100 in the 1/4th. Sounds pretty similar to me...
Stock VR-4's trap around ~80MPH in the 1/8th and ~100 in the 1/4th. Sounds pretty similar to me...
05-11-2003, 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by VQRACING
This is to ws6 and to pearl demon. No, No, and No.
lol@"vr4s running low to mid13s". In the words of Pearl demon: " what are you smoking"?!!! Seriously folks. Now this kid, ws6, is telling me that stock vr4s run low 13s. Jesus Christ folks. We went from debating mid to high 13s-low 14s. And now this? And no, Vr4s do not weigh "3700" lbs. I own an SL model. And i happen to know that turbo models weigh more than that. My Sl model weighs 3850 lbs w/o driver. The vr4 is at least heavier than that. And the Z does not weigh 3250. They weigh 3190-3200 flat. Different Features in the Z such as auto or manual tranny influence weight, and other gadgets. A stock vr4 has NEVER EVER RUN A LOW 13S. Get it? Got it. And ws6? We're talking about a stock vr4, no "boost controller" involved. And why are you saying that weight does not make a difference? Why are most race cars made out of carbon fiber then? Why are the 8-9 import sec cars barely "heavier than a feather", expression. Ws6, i'm pretty sure that you don't care about weight because you have a huge block to make up for the power lost in weight. A stock v6 tt that weighs around 3900 lbs is not going to run low 13s. Let alone mid 13s. around 13.8-14.0 is the stock vr4 run.
Kids..There are many factors that contribute to how well a car runs in the 1/4. And one of the most important besides whp is traction and weight. Definitely Weight. Pearl Demon, when you raced that Z, did you take out your spare tire? Would have improved some peformance..
This is to ws6 and to pearl demon. No, No, and No.
lol@"vr4s running low to mid13s". In the words of Pearl demon: " what are you smoking"?!!! Seriously folks. Now this kid, ws6, is telling me that stock vr4s run low 13s. Jesus Christ folks. We went from debating mid to high 13s-low 14s. And now this? And no, Vr4s do not weigh "3700" lbs. I own an SL model. And i happen to know that turbo models weigh more than that. My Sl model weighs 3850 lbs w/o driver. The vr4 is at least heavier than that. And the Z does not weigh 3250. They weigh 3190-3200 flat. Different Features in the Z such as auto or manual tranny influence weight, and other gadgets. A stock vr4 has NEVER EVER RUN A LOW 13S. Get it? Got it. And ws6? We're talking about a stock vr4, no "boost controller" involved. And why are you saying that weight does not make a difference? Why are most race cars made out of carbon fiber then? Why are the 8-9 import sec cars barely "heavier than a feather", expression. Ws6, i'm pretty sure that you don't care about weight because you have a huge block to make up for the power lost in weight. A stock v6 tt that weighs around 3900 lbs is not going to run low 13s. Let alone mid 13s. around 13.8-14.0 is the stock vr4 run.
Kids..There are many factors that contribute to how well a car runs in the 1/4. And one of the most important besides whp is traction and weight. Definitely Weight. Pearl Demon, when you raced that Z, did you take out your spare tire? Would have improved some peformance..
Are you stupid? We just showed you proof on paper that the VR-4 is capable of mid-13's.
carpoint.com, the only model that weighs 3150lbs is the lowest model. The Touring etc. models weigh 3200+lbs.
You don't even know **** about your own car and you're trying to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about?
No SL weigh 3850lbs. LOLOLOL. Get a clue. So that must mean VR-4's weigh 9000lbs!!
http://www.stealth316.com/images/mt_5-97-p08.jpg
3737lbs. Stock VR-4.
The reason I said the weight difference in the VR-4 and the 350z is pretty uselss is because with cars with not so much of a weight difference (see previous post when I compared the FD3S and the VR-4), its practically useless from a roll. The car's already have momentum at those speeds and don't need to put so much force is getting the car moving. From a roll, what counts is HORSEPOWER.
I did not take out my spare. I had full spare and a 50lb sub in the trunk with one 150lb passenger.
Oh, and Joe G. in a STOCK 1996 Stealth RT/TT ran 13.0 @ 105MPH.
http://joeg.mi3si.org/102701_MI3S_Ga...r_Dragway.html
Looks like you're wrong again.
There are DOZENS of people on 3si who run mid 13's stock.
Last edited by pearl demon; 05-11-2003 at 09:29 AM.
05-11-2003, 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by BriGuyMax
gaining 20mph in the last 1/8 and gaining 23mph in the last 1/8 is definitely a difference if you know anything about drag racing. There are a few Z's on here trapping 80mph in the 1/8 and they run 102-103mph traps in the 1/4.
gaining 20mph in the last 1/8 and gaining 23mph in the last 1/8 is definitely a difference if you know anything about drag racing. There are a few Z's on here trapping 80mph in the 1/8 and they run 102-103mph traps in the 1/4.
05-11-2003, 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by pearl demon
I said AROUND 80MPH and AROUND 100MPH. You can't pinpoint EXACTLY what each will run every time thats why I just said that the numbers are similar. Most VR-4's trap at 100-104 with good drivers, and usually 75-80MPH in the 1/8.
I said AROUND 80MPH and AROUND 100MPH. You can't pinpoint EXACTLY what each will run every time thats why I just said that the numbers are similar. Most VR-4's trap at 100-104 with good drivers, and usually 75-80MPH in the 1/8.
oh..and if weight doesn't matter from a roll....why will a Supra TT making EXACTLY the same HP and torque as a VR4 rape the Mitsu from a roll-on???
05-11-2003, 10:00 AM
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That's what I'm saying. It's a total drivers race. I'm just arguing to the people who think the Z will catch a VR-4 at 80MPH and pass them. That is not possible when the VR-4 is running almost a half seconds faster in the 1/4th.
The Supra will pass the VR-4 after the 1/4th mile because its RWD. The Mitsu is AWD and the DT loss is higher and this finally catches up to it. I'm surprised you did not know this. Flywheel HP = ****. And the Supra TT doesn't RAPE the VR-4 from a roll stock. It will walk it, but not RAPE.
The Supra will pass the VR-4 after the 1/4th mile because its RWD. The Mitsu is AWD and the DT loss is higher and this finally catches up to it. I'm surprised you did not know this. Flywheel HP = ****. And the Supra TT doesn't RAPE the VR-4 from a roll stock. It will walk it, but not RAPE.
Last edited by pearl demon; 05-11-2003 at 10:02 AM.
05-11-2003, 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by pearl demon
That's what I'm saying. It's a total drivers race. I'm just arguing to the people who think the Z will catch a VR-4 at 80MPH and pass them. That is not possible when the VR-4 is running almost a half seconds faster in the 1/4th.
The Supra will pass the VR-4 after the 1/4th mile because its RWD. The Mitsu is AWD and the DT loss is higher and this finally catches up to it. I'm surprised you did not know this. Flywheel HP = ****. And the Supra TT doesn't RAPE the VR-4 from a roll stock. It will walk it, but not RAPE.
That's what I'm saying. It's a total drivers race. I'm just arguing to the people who think the Z will catch a VR-4 at 80MPH and pass them. That is not possible when the VR-4 is running almost a half seconds faster in the 1/4th.
The Supra will pass the VR-4 after the 1/4th mile because its RWD. The Mitsu is AWD and the DT loss is higher and this finally catches up to it. I'm surprised you did not know this. Flywheel HP = ****. And the Supra TT doesn't RAPE the VR-4 from a roll stock. It will walk it, but not RAPE.
05-11-2003, 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by pearl demon
Okay... pulling at a rate of 5MPH is rape.
Then I raped the **** out of that 350z.
Okay... pulling at a rate of 5MPH is rape.
Then I raped the **** out of that 350z.
05-11-2003, 10:37 AM
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Exactly Pearl Demon, Vr4s do weigh "9000 lbs". I didn't know they were over 4000 lbs. Well in that case, you should replace the body with a carbon fiber "tube". So what you're basically saying, sarcastically, is that weight does not matter. So a "9000 lb" car with only 320 bhp and around 315 lb/ft of tq will still run low 13s. Good Job Pearl, You've done it again. Any car / truck/ rig/garbage truck/bus needs only 320 bhp and 315 lb/ft of tq and they can automatically run 13s. Weight does not matter in this "physics-less" World. And i'd like to see an image of that guy's r/t STOCK stealth running flat 13s. And your numbers are kind of off, i'm pretty sure that low 13s entails a higher trap speed. Think about it man. Think. Hey, Pearl Demon. Think.
05-11-2003, 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by VQRACING
Exactly Pearl Demon, Vr4s do weigh "9000 lbs". I didn't know they were over 4000 lbs. Well in that case, you should replace the body with a carbon fiber "tube". So what you're basically saying, sarcastically, is that weight does not matter. So a "9000 lb" car with only 320 bhp and around 315 lb/ft of tq will still run low 13s. Good Job Pearl, You've done it again. Any car / truck/ rig/garbage truck/bus needs only 320 bhp and 315 lb/ft of tq and they can automatically run 13s. Weight does not matter in this "physics-less" World. And i'd like to see an image of that guy's r/t STOCK stealth running flat 13s. And your numbers are kind of off, i'm pretty sure that low 13s entails a higher trap speed. Think about it man. Think. Hey, Pearl Demon. Think.
Exactly Pearl Demon, Vr4s do weigh "9000 lbs". I didn't know they were over 4000 lbs. Well in that case, you should replace the body with a carbon fiber "tube". So what you're basically saying, sarcastically, is that weight does not matter. So a "9000 lb" car with only 320 bhp and around 315 lb/ft of tq will still run low 13s. Good Job Pearl, You've done it again. Any car / truck/ rig/garbage truck/bus needs only 320 bhp and 315 lb/ft of tq and they can automatically run 13s. Weight does not matter in this "physics-less" World. And i'd like to see an image of that guy's r/t STOCK stealth running flat 13s. And your numbers are kind of off, i'm pretty sure that low 13s entails a higher trap speed. Think about it man. Think. Hey, Pearl Demon. Think.
Oh and since you haven't been reading... AWD traps are always lower than 2wd traps. YOU THINK.
Last edited by pearl demon; 05-11-2003 at 10:50 AM.